Lucid Dreaming, and the practice behind it.

[Freyr]

Hey.
I'v recently been getting into "Lucid Dreaming" and have had an interesting experience the other night after days of practice. I am not to familiar with all the possible aspects of the practice of "Lucid Dreaming", but what i have noticed to be working quite well is every time you look at your hands, ask yourself, "Am i dreaming?", and while you are in the dream and look down at your hands, you will ask yourself the same question, "Am I dreaming?".
This is what i experienced in my Lucid dream, it may seem a little poorly written, but allow me to say that i was half awake when i decided to write it down as soon as I had awoken, ha ha. (If i knew i was going to be posting this on the forum, i wouldn't have mentioned names, but i am sure the people as to who i am mentioning, will not mind a whole lot) Here it is:

I was with Natasha and Brad in a bedroom of some sort. I was trying a shirt on and getting very frustrated with the collar because it was to big and the collar of my under shirt was sticking out and driving me crazy. Suddenly we were all sitting down and discussing something. After the discussion we went out and Brad picked up a bag of some sort of drug. I don't know where he got it because i didn't see him pick it up, but it was there. He urged me to take the drugs ( almost looked like a bag of mushrooms, only shaped and colored like a sweet potatoe ) and we all kept walking. We somehow ended up in another house and i went to the washroom to fix my collar. When i looked at the mirror i noticed something strange. My face was kinda ripply and was bending back and forth. I looked down at my hands and realized i was dreaming! I decided to try it out and walk back to the room. Both Brad and Natasha were staring at me as if time had stood still waiting for my every action. I asked Brad if he knew what i knew. He didn't say a word. Natasha stood up and asked me if i really knew where i was. I told her i think she was a figment of my imagine. She Asked me to stand near the wall and than walk beside her. I went over to the wall and gave it a shot. What happened was incredible. I watched myself walk over to the other side of the room. At that moment Brad stood up and slapped my double in the face, and looked at me and said "Wake the hell up man! It only gets worse from here, Trust me, i am stuck here to!" But i couldn't wake up. I got kinda nervous. It seemed so real that i thought it was just the mushrooms playing these weird games with me. But i felt completely sober. I tried to split myself again, but by concentrating i ended up bending a wall completely in half. Brad spoke again, " Next time you do that make sure i am not standing next to the wall, the thing almost crushed me. Now wake up before this gets bad". Still nothing. I looked around the room and visualized i was outside, and then i was. Natasha was no where to be seen. I looked back and Brad was standing beside himself. I didn't know what to say, But he spoke, " This is what happens when you come here to often, you split and get stuck here, why do you think i am here talking to you?" I told him i figured it was because i was dreaming and i saw him before i went to sleep. He told me a piece of him was always there, and if I need out, to just ask him. So i asked him to wake me up. At that moment, He and his double looked at one another, and said "Ok" and walked into each other. Light completely engulfed my vision, and i was awake..

Now, when i decided to post this on the forum, I had a strange sense of "Deja Vu", as if I had written this before. Maybe a past Precognitive dream about this exact moment? I don't know for sure.
If anyone has had an experience like this, please post a reply :)

[calikid]

Reminds me of a Carlos Catenada book I once read.

His teacher had much to say on the subject, saying outright that he could physically appear in two places at once through lucid dreaming.

I myself did some research on the subject back in the day, BEFORE internet (boy, now I feel OLD haha).
Published studies were available (my university library), at the time recommendations included trying to focus on your hands during the dream to become aware of the dream.
I was able to attain that first step, but unfortunately looking at my hands within the dream caused me to immediately awake from the dream with a vivid memory of the incident/scene.

It was something like a shock to the system to consciously realize it WAS a dream. At least for me.
Sadly I never was able to get beyond that first step.
The next step (according to the literature) was to direct the dream, even attaining flight/travel if desired.

Another recommendation/method was the use of a blindfold with imbedded red lights that would flash when REM movement were detected. In your dream, it was claimed, you would see the red lights and get a clue.
Never did track those down, maybe on eBay? :)

Odd you had the opposite problem that I had, I awoke immediately, you had a hard time waking up.... go figure.
Were you fearful in the dream? Is that why you repeatedly requested assistance in waking up?
Your description did not sound particularly disturbing or threatening.
Perhaps next time you could "direct the dream" somewhere more pleasant...

[lycaeus]

Cool! Lucid dreaming sounds like a lot of fun. Definitely going to try harder to stay conscious at night. I really do wonder if other parts of us are fully conscious on 'the other side' in Dreamland.

I remember reading Castaneda and Don Juan said that when a person sees his 'double' that he dies... I wonder if he is right. Maybe the people in your dream really were figments of your imagination.

I remember becoming lucid in a dream, years ago. I looked around the room and thought no effin way, Im lucid dreaming. I tried to calm down. Then I went to a door to see what was beyond. As soon as I opened the door I was sucked back in a whirlwind and woke up. Damn! Oh well, was still really cool and the memory of it makes me want to keep trying at it.

[lycaeus]

I remember reading Castaneda and Don Juan said that when a person sees his 'double' that he dies
I should probably add that it's me you're talking about in your dream (Brad) in the dream and I'm still alive. So it really makes me wonder if I actually am split and stuck there... Guess there's only one way to find out and that is to wake up in the dream! Maybe you should slap me and tell me to wake up if it happens again. btw I haven't done mushrooms in over 2 years and rarely drink because weed and alcohol weaken your energy body which you need for lucid dreaming and is just a distraction in general.

[Freyr]

Reminds me of a Carlos Catenada book I once read.

His teacher had much to say on the subject, saying outright that he could physically appear in two places at once through lucid dreaming.
I have also been getting into Carlos Casteneda, that's where I originally got the idea to practice Lucid Dreaming. The idea of being completely awake in your dream state really intrigued me considering you spend a good 1/3 of your life sleeping and it just seemed like I am missing a good portion of my life just forgetting my dreams and never writing them down.


Were you fearful in the dream? Is that why you repeatedly requested assistance in waking up?
Your description did not sound particularly disturbing or threatening.
Perhaps next time you could "direct the dream" somewhere more pleasant...

Well, its not that i was afraid or scared of what was happening, I just felt really overwhelmed with the feeling that i was awake in the dream. Hearing some of my friends experiences, they all mention that they had complete control over the dream and could also fly and put themselves anywhere they wanted to go, but I didn't seem to have that complete control like they did in their dreams. That's when I started getting nervous. I guess not knowing what my mind would do next was kinda frightening but nothing seemed to pose a threat. If it does happen again I will surely try to direct it somewhere better, I guess that being the first Lucid dream I experienced, I didn't really know how to take it ( I am sure no one does, unless they are more familiar with it ).


I remember becoming lucid in a dream, years ago. I looked around the room and thought no effin way, Im lucid dreaming. I tried to calm down. Then I went to a door to see what was beyond. As soon as I opened the door I was sucked back in a whirlwind and woke up.

I'v heard that a lot to. I figured just the thought of being aware of the dream was going to wake me up instantly but i couldn't wake up for the life of me. Maybe i really didn't want to wake up and that's why i continued to stay there. I do remember taking melatonin before i went to sleep so maybe that helped me to become more aware of it and could be the reason why i stayed there. Who knows, but it was fricken interesting! haha.

[lycaeus]

I do remember taking melatonin before i went to sleep so maybe that helped me to become more aware of it and could be the reason why i stayed there.
According to the 'C's' in the Cassiopaean material, melatonin is a mild hallucinogen. I notice when I take it I'm more aware during my dreaming. It helps me to remember them to.

I know nicotine patches are an easy way to induce lucid dreaming, but it gave me a lucid nightmare that involved me having a wounded arm where I put the patch on before bed, so I don't plan on trying that again...

I know monatomic gold induces lucid dreaming, but that is definitely a bad thing to take in and no one should consume it imo. Lakhovsky cables seem to help too with no bad side effects.

[Freyr]

Both Brad and Natasha were staring at me as if time had stood still waiting for my every action.

I felt that I should elaborate on that. It seemed like when I had realized I had been dreaming, both Natasha & Brad seemed to be aware that I had realized I was dreaming. I thought that maybe there is a piece of us in the dream world when were awake at all times but it may just be in my own head. It most likely wasn't them but just something I had created in my dream. By Brad telling me to "wake the hell up!" could have just been my fear of something bad happening and warning myself to be wary. There was no sense of complete control but I know I was the only one in control at that time, so I might have been creating alternate ways of waking myself out of the dream for just in case.


According to the 'C's' in the Cassiopaean material, melatonin is a mild hallucinogen. I notice when I take it I'm more aware during my dreaming. It helps me to remember them to.

I just wanted to give a little Melatonin overview for people who aren't to familiar with it and would like to try it out for themselves.

"Melatonin is a hormone secreted by the pineal gland in the brain. It helps regulate other hormones and maintains the body's circadian rhythm. The circadian rhythm is an internal 24-hour clock that plays a critical role in when we fall asleep and when we wake up. When it is dark, your body produces more melatonin; when it is light, the production of melatonin drops. Being exposed to bright lights in the evening or too little light during the day can disrupt the body' s normal melatonin cycles. For example, jet lag, shift work, and poor vision can disrupt melatonin cycles".
"Some researchers also believe that melatonin levels may be related to aging. For example, young children have the highest levels of nighttime melatonin. Researchers believe these levels drop as we age. Some people think lower levels of melatonin may explain why some older adults have sleep problems and tend to go to bed and wake up earlier than when they were younger. However, newer research calls this theory into question."

"Melatonin has strong antioxidant effects. Preliminary evidence suggests that it may help strengthen the immune system."

"Studies suggest that melatonin supplements may help people with disrupted circadian rhythms (such as people with jet lag or those who work the night shift) and those with low melatonin levels (such as some seniors and people with schizophrenia) to sleep better. A review of clinical studies suggests that melatonin supplements may help prevent jet lag, particularly in people who cross five or more time zones. A few clinical studies suggest that when taken for short periods of time (days to weeks) melatonin is more effective than a placebo in reducing the time it takes to fall asleep, increasing the number of sleeping hours, and boosting daytime alertness. It' s not clear how well melatonin works, however -- some studies suggest that it only reduces the amount of time to fall asleep by a few minutes."

"everal human studies have measured the effects of melatonin supplements on sleep in healthy people. A wide range of doses has been used, often taken by mouth 30 - 60 minutes prior to sleep time. Results have been mixed. Some evidence suggests that melatonin may work best for people over 55 who have insomnia. One study of 334 people aged 55 and older found that sustained-release melatonin seemed to help people fall asleep faster, sleep better, be more alert in the morning, and improve quality of life in people with primary insomnia."

"Some people may have vivid dreams or nightmares when they take melatonin. Taking too much melatonin may disrupt circadian rhythms (your body clock)"


(Though I believe that it wont cause nightmares, but make the dreams more vivid. If your outer world is conflicting with your inner, whether it be bad or good, will most likely be effecting your dreams, not the melatonin)

[Freyr]

I thought I should add that I dont promote anyone taking drugs. But there are a few "good" ones out there that have had positive effects on me and will only say the least about them.

[Freyr]

How To Remember You're Dreams

Remembering your dreams is the starting place for learning to have lucid dreams. If you don't recall your dreams, even if you do have a lucid dream, you won't remember it! And, in order to be able to recognize your dreams as dreams while they are happening, you have to be familiar with the way your own dreams work. Before it will be worth your time to work on lucid dream induction methods, you should be able to recall at least one dream every night.
Getting plenty of sleep is the first step to good dream recall. If you are rested it will be easier to focus on your goal of recalling dreams, and you won't mind so much taking the time during the night to record your dreams. Another benefit of getting plenty of sleep is that dream periods get longer and closer together as the night proceeds. The first dream of the night is the shortest, perhaps 10 minutes in length, while after 8 hours of sleep, dream periods can be 45 minutes to an hour long. We all dream every night, about one dream period every 90 minutes. People who say they never dream simply never remember their dreams. You may have more than one dream during a REM (dream) period, separated by short arousals that are most often forgotten. It is generally accepted among sleep researchers that dreams are not recalled unless the sleeper awakens directly from the dream, rather than after going on to other stages of sleep.

It can be useful while you are developing your dream recall to keep a complete dream journal. Keep the journal handy by your bed and record every dream you remember, no matter how fragmentary. Start by writing down all your dreams, not just the complete, coherent, or interesting ones--even if all you remember is a face or a room, write it down.

When you awaken in the night and recall what you were dreaming, record the dream right away. If you don't, in the morning you may find you remember nothing about the dream, and you will certainly have forgotten many interesting details. We seem to have built-in dream erasers in our minds, which make dream experiences more difficult to recall than waking ones. So, whenever you remember a dream, write it down. If you don't feel like writing out a long dream story at 3 AM, note down key points of the plot. Also write down the precise content of any dialogue from the dream, because words will almost inevitably be forgotten in a very short time.

Possibly, all you will need to do to increase your dream recall is to remind yourself as you are falling asleep that you wish to awaken fully from your dreams and remember them. This works in a similar manner to remembering to awaken at a certain time in the morning. Additionally, it may help to tell yourself you will have interesting, meaningful dreams. A major cause of dream forgetting is interference from other thoughts competing for your attention. Therefore, let your first thought upon awakening be, "What was I just dreaming?" Before attempting to write down the dream, go over the dream in your mind, re-telling the dream story to yourself. DO NOT MOVE from the position in which you awaken, and do not think of the day's concerns. Cling to any clues of what you might have been experiencing--moods, feelings, fragments of images, and try to rebuild a story from them. When you recall a scene, try to recall what happened before that, and before that, reliving the dream in reverse. If after a few minutes, all you remember is a mood, describe it in a journal. If you can recall nothing, try imagining a dream you might have had--note your present feelings, list your current concerns to yourself, and ask yourself, "Did I dream about that?" Even if you can't recall anything in bed, events or scenes of the day may remind you of something you dreamed the night before. Be ready to notice this when it happens, and record whatever you remember.

If you find that you sleep too deeply to awaken from your dreams, try setting an alarm clock to wake you at a time when you are likely to be dreaming. Since our REM periods occur at approximately 90 minute intervals, good times will be multiples of 90 minutes after you go to sleep. Aim for the later REM periods by setting the alarm to go off at 4.5, 6, or 7.5 hours after you go to sleep. Once again, when you wake up, don't move and think first of what you were just dreaming before writing.

To remind yourself of your intentions and get yourself into the spirit of your dreams, read through your dream journal at bedtime. Learning to remember your dreams may seem difficult at first, but if you persist, you will almost certainly succeed--and may find yourself remembering four or more dreams per night. Of course, once you reach this level, you probably won't want to write them all down--just the significant or compelling ones. And, the more familiar you become with the style of your own dreams, the easier it will be to remember you are dreaming while you are dreaming--and explore the world of your dreams while still on the scene.

[lycaeus]

WOW!! AN AMAZING LUCID DREAM LAST NIGHT!!!

this one was crazy...

I was at a tropical wilderness, like a resort. Inside there was this chair suspended from long ropes/cables. Attached to the chair was a lever that I unwound, like a trailer hitch crank that mechanically pushed open or closed a part of the chair, like an extendable leg rest or something (made of metal and bambooish wood components).

The chair pulled me up to the top but before I got there, I felt I was falling down. The chair was pulling me down and it felt like the structure was falling apart. I thought "I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die ****!' So I tried to think of some good last dying thoughts (but I forget what they were. I do remember that I got a specific date though: June 23 19?? or June 1923 [pretty sure it's June 23] but damn, not completely sure. Definitely a June and a 23 in there...

It felt strange. I desperately clenched a rod on the chair to keep from flying up and away as the chair descended too quickly. I was falling for a while and I didn't hit the floor of the gigantically tall 'Tiki' hut thing. It was like bamboo poles, with nice wooden deck and fabric canopy. I just felt this surge of energy pulling me up and I let go of the pole I was hanging on to. I was then shoved out through the roof by an inexplicable force. And I burst into the sky to behold thousands of people flying through the atmosphere. People had their arms straight out like superman. We couldn't help it, this force moved us and carried us. It felt better than anything like a divine, loving and godly energy moving us from within making us free.

It felt like this was the future. Could just be the crazy old astral world though. [not sure why I originally wrote 'old-astral-world, but perhaps I'm subconsciously familiar with astral travel? this reminded me of some other dreams where I could fly]. IDK if this is normal for astral/lucid dreaming but I now know what the big fuss is with all these people trying to get into these states.

I think I was one of the last people, or most stubborn to fly away with this force, because so many were already flying when I broke through the ceiling, thousands-probably millions from my view. This was monumental for me and it felt just as real as this normal waking life. ATM it was the hugest, most important and unexpected event of my life, not sure what everyone else thought about it though.

At the end of the flying day, we stopped at trhe end of the day to eat in a nice resort, tropical area like a dock or beach or something. I nibbled on some dry delicious snacks. We talked about things I can't remember. I wondered how we went to the bathroom because I figured we were forced to fly non-stop all day, but that thought passed. I felt like I couldn't stop flying even if I wanted to. This force just pulled us up and we flew, felt like we were traveling the world.

I remember before I fell asleep I was singing in my head Montalk's lyrics for the song Prevail : 'Ride into the Wave Ride with hearts a glow-oh-oh-oh, Oh Yeah! a reference, I'm guessing to the 'Realm Border Crossing' of the approaching 'WAVE' the C's talked about maybe? That's where we are supposed to transition to a higher level of being called 'Fourth Density'.

It was AMAZING. I noticed that I seemed to be somersaulting most of the time and I couldn't control that, but I had the straight superman pose down a few times at the beginning like all the other fliers. I didn't know what was going on for a while though.

So at one point I then remember flying over a busy city and went down to the street. There were lights, people partying. This felt like our world but in the future. I think there was a concert venue I might have been playing at, or someone else [it felt familiar, like in other dreams I've had. there were staggered blaconies along the walls, busy place, cool lights, not grungy, clean and futuristic but not like in cliche sci-fi movies]...
I flew down to the ground and I threw a big heavy object at a van for some reason. It smashed the side of the bumper pretty good and Inside was an attractive girl. Then another girl appeared. Then the van was full of good-looking women (my taste). Their van smashed into a pole. I realized that I think I could manifest whatever I wanted, this was just before I decided to ask to see something important. No one was hurt though. That was the extent of my (semi-conscious) romantic wishes though, just to see some pretty girls (in clothing lol).

This incident I pulled attracted an angry crowd.

I also remember in this busy city night life that I was in a dark apartment building hallway. There were red and black colors, perceptions or ambiences. There were some guys in suits, like Matrix Agents, or gangster business, evil guys, ugly with gross, pale skin. They attacked me. They shot me in the back and it healed in seconds as the bullet pushed itself out. I slowly got rageful as I pushed the bullet out and my skin healed (without my hands, it just healed itself). I was with another guy in the hallway who reminded me of Morpheus [from The Matrix movie] I turned around to face the agents and the Morpheus guy I was with said 'Don't do it'. I looked at them (not sure what I was going to do) and they shot me in the neck/side-of-face area. That one healed to, it was bloody and gruesomely grotesque.

Strange thing was at this point that I could see myself (or this character) from a 3rd person view as well, my perception was not limited to just the body looking out through the eyes). . I saw myself like I had 2 huge eyes, almost like a grey aliens almonds, but the eyeballs were missing and you could see my human eyes barely beneath the red tissue (insde eye sockets without eyeballs) seemingly hidden but visibly peeking out through the soft, moist, pink tissue, but only on closer inspection could you notice them... from afar it just looked like a human with a big head and big grey eyes missing pulled out of the eye-sockets. I thought this symbolized a disguise or mask of some sort. I don't think all the Flyers were like that when I first saw everyone flying through the sky. They looked like normal people though when flying and eating. [IDK if that was me or someone else, or maybe I changed form <shrug>]

So I left this area where I fought Matrix Agents. I felt anger from people as I flew away from the streets. It was difficult to rise above the city-life. I felt that they saw me flying and thought 'It's one of THOSE PEOPLE' and I felt anger and hate towards me, like bullets shooting at me. I was low and I think one guy shot a shotgun and I was worried for a second, but I was okay and flew away. I felt the negative emotions as if I was a freak to be hunted but they couldn't hurt me.

At one point I asked to see something important once I realized I could travel anywhere. I think I wanted to see my future life or something. I flew on and then saw this building, like grass on the stony walls, actually a garden. Lots of people (I think this was the future). Some tourist event, museum or some gathering.

There was a family of 2 girls (maybe 19/20) and a younger teenage boy (I think). The one younger woman I saw was skinny, long legs dressed really cool, but not sci-fi weird-techno-cool, like our normal style but I think in the future. Long straight hair with different earthy colours (blond, black or brown and tan) folded up, or clipped to the side or half-pony tail or something like that. Also had a bar piercing in one nostril as well as a long skinny strap over the shoulder. Like a camera attached maybe.

There was an older man and older woman, (maybe 65; it's what I got). I thought the man was me in the future, but he said that he wasn't. I went down to the ground and he looked to me casually and said I know who you are. I think he said I died when my wife is 65 and she was completely distraught. The woman with the man I was talking to looked partly Oriental but more white, and the man had some healthy European (maybe a bit of Greek), (the badass rich guy/classy style with beard, thick stocky muscle build, probably leather jacket too, short black hair, well-worn 'seasoned' face, wise blue eyes). The older woman looked like she was healthy and gorgeous before she aged... He also said something about a janitor was her (my wife I think?) only one there for her or something, but it might have been about something else(?).

I then walked along the grass, amongst the crowd like at a tourist destination and left through the entrance area. I zoomed off to keep flying.

I thought at first that this was my family, and if it was then it looks like they are well. But I don't think so actually, it was probably another family.

[lycaeus]

A lot more happened that I don't remember.

When I woke up I heard a clicking sound. Like the clicking of a clock, but not an even rhythm, like a stick tapping the nearby shelf, but IDK where it came from.. it was like 'tap, tap, tap- ...tap,tap-...-tap...tap, tap' (irregular rhythm for a few seconds, but very clear). I thought that it better not be aliens around or phantoms messing with my dreams. I almost wanted to go look out the window.

Robert Bruce says that it is normal to hear weird sounds when coming in and going out of the normal-awake and astral states though. IDK. Whatever it was...

I wish I remembered more of the details because other interesting stuff happened.

I woke up at 3am wide awake after falling asleep exhausted at midnight. Back for a nap, hopefully I get to fly again!... (the next dream actually turned out to be pretty dark with normal, evil human things. I think that had more to do with my past traumas and psychological fears (there was someone I once knew), my mind sorting things out, not a lucid dream or astral experience...)

But especially the flying part and talking to that man in the future, this felt like a milestone experience for me. It gave me hope for the future. I wonder if it will one day become normal for people to randomly talk to time-traveling astral 'Fliers' like that man did with me. Maybe we become psychic? These worlds were all richer and more colorful. This may all just be normal for astral/lucid dreaming experiences though. This 'dream' was no doubt colored by my own personal thoughts and emotions but was extremely cool!

[Wally]

While I can often detect when I'm dreaming I find that taking control of the dreams to be much more difficult. Also it seems that if I try to examine anything in great detail it doesn't work and things tend to keep changing on me. An example would be if I were to go go one direction and then turn around and head back I would not be able to arrive at my original starting point.

[calikid]

Not sure this qualifies as "lucid dreaming".
Recently I've had a few strange dream related experiences.
Maybe I'm just tired and have an over-active imagination, but this has been out of the ordinary for me.

On 3 or 4 recent occasions, I have been sitting on the couch relaxing, maybe eating a snack, or watching a little television when I become very sleepy. This is in the middle of the day. I am NOT prone to naps, but I dozed, and awoke between 5 and 10 minutes later. What was unusual is that I was mid-dream.
Now, let me say that my understanding is that dreams occur during REM sleep, and it normally take 30 or 40 minutes to reach that level/state. So vivid dreams after 5 or 10 minutes (clock on the wall) seems unusual to me.

Anyway, in the dream I was taking care of business. VERY engrossed in talking with people and shuffling papers. Nothing weird.
So then I wake up 5 minutes later, and the dream slips away.
Half hour later, same thing happens again.
When I awake, it felt as if I was urgently needed someplace else.
Like a parallel life existed and I had been called away, by falling asleep, to go take care of pressing business.

As I said this has happened 2 or 3 times recently. Twice on one day, and once or twice again the following day.
Hope I'm explaining this right.
Anyone else have similar experiences?

[Edward]

Not sure this qualifies as "lucid dreaming".
Recently I've had a few strange dream related experiences.
Maybe I'm just tired and have an over-active imagination, but this has been out of the ordinary for me.

On 3 or 4 recent occasions, I have been sitting on the couch relaxing, maybe eating a snack, or watching a little television when I become very sleepy. This is in the middle of the day. I am NOT prone to naps, but I dozed, and awoke between 5 and 10 minutes later. What was unusual is that I was mid-dream.
Now, let me say that my understanding is that dreams occur during REM sleep, and it normally take 30 or 40 minutes to reach that level/state. So vivid dreams after 5 or 10 minutes (clock on the wall) seems unusual to me.

Anyway, in the dream I was taking care of business. VERY engrossed in talking with people and shuffling papers. Nothing weird.
So then I wake up 5 minutes later, and the dream slips away.
Half hour later, same thing happens again.
When I awake, it felt as if I was urgently needed someplace else.
Like a parallel life existed and I had been called away, by falling asleep, to go take care of pressing business.

As I said this has happened 2 or 3 times recently. Twice on one day, and once or twice again the following day.
Hope I'm explaining this right.
Anyone else have similar experiences?

I have had similar experiences. Let me ask you when you were "dreaming" did you have a sense you were not fully asleep but you can tell that you are almost asleep? If so the images you may be seeing is not a dream at all but something else entirely different. I myself have postulated what I was seeing was perhaps me on another level of existence or parallel world. Or even perhaps some sort of bi-location event. You may even have been on the spirit/astral realm. However, you may have entered the deep stages of dreaming very quickly if you mind and body was that tired.

Edward

[calikid]

I have had similar experiences. Let me ask you when you were "dreaming" did you have a sense you were not fully asleep but you can tell that you are almost asleep? If so the images you may be seeing is not a dream at all but something else entirely different. I myself have postulated what I was seeing was perhaps me on another level of existence or parallel world. Or even perhaps some sort of bi-location event. You may even have been on the spirit/astral realm. However, you may have entered the deep stages of dreaming very quickly if you mind and body was that tired.

Edward

Fully asleep, until I was aware that I was waking up, and it felt like I was watching the guy at the desk (my dream self) shuffling papers, from an elevated vantage point. I also "knew" the guy shuffling papers was totally unaware of me watching him. Confusing to explain :bleh:

"bi-location event", maybe. Not sure how it could be proven?

I've never heard of anyone falling asleep and immediately (within 5 minutes) enter a dream state. Seemed unusual.

[Garuda]

I've never heard of anyone falling asleep and immediately (within 5 minutes) enter a dream state. Seemed unusual.

I do it often ...

[Edward]

I do it often ...


as do I

[calikid]

Guess you should welcome me to the club.
Seems as of last week, I do now as well.

[Garuda]

Guess you should welcome me to the club.
Seems as of last week, I do now as well.

Welcome to the club then! :)

I often have a siesta-nap of about 20 minutes. And in many of those I dream.

[calikid]

Wiki has some interesting information on REM Sleep (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep).


Some dreaming can take place during non-REM sleep. “Light sleepers” can experience dreaming during stage 2 non-REM sleep, whereas “deep sleepers”, upon awakening in the same stage, are more likely to report “thinking” but not “dreaming”.

I'm guessing when they say "thinking", that would mean a lack of imagery?
I never thought about if I was only "thinking" and not dreaming before. Oh boy, back to the confusing/tough to describe mode. But I do recall looking down at my dream self, so there must have been imagery involved during my recent experience.

[atmjjc]

Fully asleep, until I was aware that I was waking up, and it felt like I was watching the guy at the desk (my dream self) shuffling papers, from an elevated vantage point. I also "knew" the guy shuffling papers was totally unaware of me watching him. Confusing to explain :bleh:

"bi-location event", maybe. Not sure how it could be proven?

I've never heard of anyone falling asleep and immediately (within 5 minutes) enter a dream state. Seemed unusual.

The awake dreaming is quite common and is referred to in colloquial language as a ‘waking dream’ or ‘daydreaming’. The hallucinations as they are sometimes referred to are usually noted as a sensory miss cue of perception and categorized as hypnogogic (hypnogogia) and hypnopompic (hypnopompia) hallucinations in a waking sleep state +/- entering/leaving rem states.

My research done with one of the mystery schools who financed it back in the 70’s, drifted to what we referred to at the time as Bi-Location/astral projection in lucid states of consciousness. Something to what Edward was referring to in his perceptions of his events. Similar to what the government referred to as Remote Viewing. Our research went much further than what the government was doing. We actually were looking to split the consciousness to a rational state by using vibration techniques to dislodge it into the finer body with rational consciousness and to transfer it to different locations in 3D space within the fabric of the finer body.

[calikid]

The awake dreaming is quite common and is referred to in colloquial language as a ‘waking dream’ or ‘daydreaming’. The hallucinations as they are sometimes referred to are usually noted as a sensory miss cue of perception and categorized as hypnogogic (hypnogogia) and hypnopompic (hypnopompia) hallucinations in a waking sleep state +/- entering/leaving rem states.

My research done with one of the mystery schools who financed it back in the 70’s, drifted to what we referred to at the time as Bi-Location/astral projection in lucid states of consciousness. Something to what Edward was referring to in his perceptions of his events. Similar to what the government referred to as Remote Viewing. Our research went much further than what the government was doing. We actually were looking to split the consciousness to a rational state by using vibration techniques to dislodge it into the finer body with rational consciousness and to transfer it to different locations in 3D space within the fabric of the finer body.

Did a bit of reading on the hypnopompic (transition from sleep to wakefulness) state.
The concept of "sleep inertia" was interesting.
Part of my recent experience was an urgency to return to the dream, due to a feeling of important unfinished business.
That could equate to one of the sleep inertia symptoms... "the tendency of a person wanting to return to sleep."

My whole life I've always awaken instantly, and fully aware.
Like an animal ready to fight or flee.
So this gradual transition is something of a new experience for me.

Think I mentioned before, some years ago I tried Castaneda's suggestion of "focusing on your hands during dreaming, to induce a lucid state".
Each time I tried, the second I saw my hands in my dream and realized I was dreaming, I would instantly awaken. Eventually gave up.
Up until now, seems my brain is binary. Awake or asleep. Not much middle ground.

[calikid]

The awake dreaming is quite common and is referred to in colloquial language as a ‘waking dream’ or ‘daydreaming’. The hallucinations as they are sometimes referred to are usually noted as a sensory miss cue of perception and categorized as hypnogogic (hypnogogia) and hypnopompic (hypnopompia) hallucinations in a waking sleep state +/- entering/leaving rem states.

My research done with one of the mystery schools who financed it back in the 70’s, drifted to what we referred to at the time as Bi-Location/astral projection in lucid states of consciousness. Something to what Edward was referring to in his perceptions of his events. Similar to what the government referred to as Remote Viewing. Our research went much further than what the government was doing. We actually were looking to split the consciousness to a rational state by using vibration techniques to dislodge it into the finer body with rational consciousness and to transfer it to different locations in 3D space within the fabric of the finer body.

Decided to split this response into two parts (my personal experience posted above, and details of your experiences here).
I have heard of:
Bi-Location/astral projection
lucid states of consciousness
and Remote Viewing

But part of what you describe includes terms I am unfamiliar with:
Vibration techniques?
Finer body?

I get you were going for an altered lucid state of mind, that can be directed to non-local landscapes.
Just not sure about the terms, maybe you could share some details about protocols, goals, and results?

[atmjjc]

Decided to split this response into two parts (my personal experience posted above, and details of your experiences here).
I have heard of:
Bi-Location/astral projection
lucid states of consciousness
and Remote Viewing

But part of what you describe includes terms I am unfamiliar with:
Vibration techniques?
Finer body?

I get you were going for an altered lucid state of mind, that can be directed to non-local landscapes.
Just not sure about the terms, maybe you could share some details about protocols, goals, and results?

The particular time I am talking about we started to experiment mostly in what is called the ‘ganzfeld effect’. We dropped the strictly scientific approach as to publish papers because we seen the difficulty with strict protocols. We were looking for results. Science be damned it just got in the way.

The people I worked with were basically lived in different countries the UK, France, and U.S. I was located at the head of the spear in Cyprus with the Brits. The results varied depending on what techniques were used. In some circumstances we succeeded and others we failed miserably.

You appear, if I am not mistaken, to be looking at hemi-sync technology. I would suggest b4 you get too involved you build up the ‘synaptic plasticity’ of your ‘neurotransmitter receptors’. You can do this simply just by wanting to project your consciousness b4 you go to sleep or you start daydreaming. Your neuropath ways will do the rest all by themselves. It will take a few weeks but you will get a better response than just jumping in. Either way might work.

You will know what finer body is once you cracked your egg. It appears to be a consciousness response of familiarity of your physical body and a survival response action of unfamiliarity. If you fall into a dream you are not there yet.

Once you start nibbling at your egg you will feel your physical body start to vibrate. Once you consciously acknowledge this as it is happening the vibrations will increase. It might scare you but it is the beginning of hatching into the universe. It is physiologically harmless but it will enlighten you once you nibble enough to emerge. Hemi-sync music is a way to stimulate the vibrations, also white noise preferably with ganzfeld.

atmjjc:cool:

[calikid]

Ganzfeld effect? Using Sensory Deprivation, as in the movie "Altered States" or more recently in the TV Series "Fringe", to induce (for lack of a better word) hallucinations?

Hemi Sync? As in synchronizing the left & right brain hemispheres?
I've always been a left brain person. Analytical, critical, logical, mathematical.
Other than music (a global brain activity), I lack a great deal in creativity & artistry. Something I can recognize & appreciate in others.
Awakening the right hemisphere sounds like a herculean task, maybe easy for others, but I have doubts.

As for the egg & vibrations, etc you explain. Probably need to read it a couple of times, first blush it is hard to follow. I'm guessing it is probably easier to experience than grasp as a concept. But thanks for sharing, appreciate the exposure to new ideas.

I see some sites recommend using a mask to cover the eyes, along with white noise (or Binaual beats) to induce sensory deprivation.
Reminds me of seeing a mask some years ago that flashed red lights (embedded in the mask) during REM to clue in the sleeping subject that it was time to become "lucid" during likely dream sequences.
I realize they have two different methodologies, one is used while awake, the other while sleeping. Just wondered if you have used either method?

You mentioned the program you were involved with disregarded science in favor of results.
From your description, is it fair to say the ultimate goal was "Remote Viewing"?
Sry, trying to parse some of your descriptions, baby steps. "...consciousness and to transfer it to different locations..."
Any spectacular success stories from "back in the day" you can share with us?

[whoknows]

I have had similar experiences. Let me ask you when you were "dreaming" did you have a sense you were not fully asleep but you can tell that you are almost asleep? If so the images you may be seeing is not a dream at all but something else entirely different. I myself have postulated what I was seeing was perhaps me on another level of existence or parallel world. Or even perhaps some sort of bi-location event. You may even have been on the spirit/astral realm. However, you may have entered the deep stages of dreaming very quickly if you mind and body was that tired.

Edward

I think your posit is a more apt description than that of Don Juan Matus but the same essentially. We are who we are across the multiverse. In lucid dreams we just have a shared consciousness or a brief linkage of said selves. We are not carbon copies and can vary little to vastly, yet I know it is me. There is a strangeness of continuity, to say the least, but over the years I have become used to this.

Night before last I had a common dream occurrence. It wasn't the dream but the other people in the dream. I am interacting with some as if I know them well. thing is I have a keen memory for faces, even of people I have just passed on a street and see them again months later. Those in the dreams, I have never seen before.

Interesting discussion! One thing I'd like to hear more of is not necessarily the dreams them selves but the oddities that are experienced. Setting, ambiance ect.. In other words have any of you tried to detach yourselves from the focal point and looked around?

[atmjjc]

<snip>

... I see some sites recommend using a mask to cover the eyes, along with white noise (or Binaual beats) to induce sensory deprivation.
Reminds me of seeing a mask some years ago that flashed red lights (embedded in the mask) during REM to clue in the sleeping subject that it was time to become "lucid" during likely dream sequences.
I realize they have two different methodologies, one is used while awake, the other while sleeping. Just wondered if you have used either method?

You mentioned the program you were involved with disregarded science in favor of results.
From your description, is it fair to say the ultimate goal was "Remote Viewing"?
Sry, trying to parse some of your descriptions, baby steps. "...consciousness and to transfer it to different locations..."
Any spectacular success stories from "back in the day" you can share with us?

Yes most of our studies were centered on neural entrainment with acoustic stimuli, even a form of gong meditation coupled with startle reflex were used. On the opposite side of the barrier so to speak, the ganzfeld method with isolation tanks showed somewhat promising. In some cases drugs were also used.

Do to what would be considered poor statistical results in which the top range would be 60% hits with episodic results signified to us poor methodology. An indication of a hit would be considered a positive observation of the significant target value.

Even with the best results science would strongly argue ‘Subjective Validation’ or the Barnum/Forer effect.

To go beyond looking for scientific proof in RV or Bi-location it should be strikingly obvious that there is something going on. Anybody with an open mind realizes this and most of us whoever had a lucid dream knows this. To have subjective control of this is another matter which must be utilized to full potential. You must be the judge of your own subjective mind to see what works for you. To the explorer in you…go at it. The curiosity most of us share is what makes humankind stand out in the universe.

atmjjc:cool:

[calikid]

Yes most of our studies were centered on neural entrainment with acoustic stimuli, even a form of gong meditation coupled with startle reflex were used. On the opposite side of the barrier so to speak, the ganzfeld method with isolation tanks showed somewhat promising. In some cases drugs were also used.

Do to what would be considered poor statistical results in which the top range would be 60% hits with episodic results signified to us poor methodology. An indication of a hit would be considered a positive observation of the significant target value.

Even with the best results science would strongly argue ‘Subjective Validation’ or the Barnum/Forer effect.

To go beyond looking for scientific proof in RV or Bi-location it should be strikingly obvious that there is something going on. Anybody with an open mind realizes this and most of us whoever had a lucid dream knows this. To have subjective control of this is another matter which must be utilized to full potential. You must be the judge of your own subjective mind to see what works for you. To the explorer in you…go at it. The curiosity most of us share is what makes humankind stand out in the universe.

atmjjc:cool:

It is certainly an interesting phenomenon.
But the problem I have is that even if we achieve Lucid Dreaming (a skill I have difficulty with), the next step almost seems a leap of faith.
Is this dream state a true dimension to be explored?
Perhaps a reflection of physical reality (Bi-location/R.V.)?
Or is it simply the result of a rich imagination bordering on delusion.
I do not know.

The only empirical proof would be the scientific results you discount. Not condemning you.
Just an observation that while interesting to research, it is difficult for me to reach a conclusion.
The best I can do is keep an open mind, and attempt to replicate what other have shared.
So far, I have had VIVID dreams that seem very real, but non-the-less can be identified as dreams.
While the more difficult skill of LUCID dreaming still eludes me.
Perhaps if I ever achieve LUCID dreaming (AFAIK, not a given), the next step will become more clear.

[atmjjc]

It is certainly an interesting phenomenon.
But the problem I have is that even if we achieve Lucid Dreaming (a skill I have difficulty with), the next step almost seems a leap of faith.
Is this dream state a true dimension to be explored?
Perhaps a reflection of physical reality (Bi-location/R.V.)?
Or is it simply the result of a rich imagination bordering on delusion.
I do not know.

The only empirical proof would be the scientific results you discount. Not condemning you.
Just an observation that while interesting to research, it is difficult for me to reach a conclusion.
The best I can do is keep an open mind, and attempt to replicate what other have shared.
So far, I have had VIVID dreams that seem very real, but non-the-less can be identified as dreams.
While the more difficult skill of LUCID dreaming still eludes me.
Perhaps if I ever achieve LUCID dreaming (AFAIK, not a given), the next step will become more clear.

I know exactly where you are coming from. In a roundabout way you are referring to Subjective Validation.

Using RV as an example if scientifically you see a pattern that works in an episodic way in estimates of 60% it would be a significant observation but not positive truth. The math would not work out to where it would be of positive significance.

The pattern in itself would be the significant evidence of truth, but arguable, and calling for further studies.

[whoknows]

It is certainly an interesting phenomenon.
But the problem I have is that even if we achieve Lucid Dreaming (a skill I have difficulty with), the next step almost seems a leap of faith.
Is this dream state a true dimension to be explored?
Perhaps a reflection of physical reality (Bi-location/R.V.)?
Or is it simply the result of a rich imagination bordering on delusion.
I do not know.

The only empirical proof would be the scientific results you discount. Not condemning you.
Just an observation that while interesting to research, it is difficult for me to reach a conclusion.
The best I can do is keep an open mind, and attempt to replicate what other have shared.
So far, I have had VIVID dreams that seem very real, but non-the-less can be identified as dreams.
While the more difficult skill of LUCID dreaming still eludes me.
Perhaps if I ever achieve LUCID dreaming (AFAIK, not a given), the next step will become more clear.

As the old saying goes "you had to be there." Some things I think may not be provable by what today we consider empirical. I mean some day soon we may find that we have been playing with a deck short a card... A whole fundamental force!

LOL how many more cards ( It can be said we are all dealing with a deck of illusion rather than delusion,can it not?) are missing of just as great a significance. Of which, we may not even have the tools presently to even approach. Our main, and I think neglected tool, is our own brains, despite it's known propensity for fallibility, but then how more the machinations of that minds machines and instruments we put so much faith in? A catch 22 huh...

I find it hard to characterize lucid dreaming as a skill, nevertheless here's a suggestion. Most often I find myself becoming aware of the dream at different times, the best way I can us to describe a place to catch hold of the dream (at least at first) is the "in between state" the moment you know you are dreaming, when most people wake. The trick is not to wake completely but step into that state, let yourself relax into it.

It takes a bit of practice but it works for me.

Leave the more esoteric stuff behind for the moment!