Pictures taken by Zaggan

[Garuda]

Forum member Zaggan has taken the following pictures, with his cell phone, of an anomalous object:

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0247.jpg

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0248.jpg

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0249.jpg

[Garuda]

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0250.jpg


http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0252.jpg


http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0253.jpg

[Garuda]

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0254.jpg


http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0255.jpg


http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0256.jpg


http://www.theoutpostforum.com/upload/zaggan0257.jpg

[Zaggan]

Thanks Garuda for posting these pics. I should post more often so I know how to do it. Okay guys, I didn't see Calikid's post on practice shots until _after_ I took these shots, and in some of them, you see a greenish/black smudging like clouds. My impression is that these are fingerprint smudges on the photo lens of the cell phone. I did not see anything on the camera gallery, other than a bright dot. I was actually very surprised at what the pics showed. Firstly, my reaction to the first couple were that I had moved the cell phone while taking the pics. Very possible. In fact, all of them may be that. However, as I was going through them, there were some that really blew my mind, as they seemed to be actually something that was shape shifting. I wanted to share, and Garuda came to my rescue.

Last night around 7:15 pm I went outside to my truck in the driveway and started coming back to the house. I noticed a bright light to the southwest, and thought "gee, kinda bright to be Venus". I live across from St. Louis in Illinois (remember the ufo in Illinois in 2000? close to the house, but did not see). We have planes coming up from the south, passing to the east of me, for landing at the airport. Occasionally a direct connection with the landing lights will produce a pretty bright light, but only lasts a couple of seconds before it changes. Thought this light (to my southwest mind you) might be a plane, so really thought nothing of it. Went inside and did some work, and then went back outside to the garage to feed one of my outdoor cats. Saw the light in the same position as earlier (possibly 10 minutes later), so went in and grabbed my binoculars. The light looked really bright, but just a spot, not moving. Decided to grab my cell and take a few pics, and what you see is what I took. They are timed stamped at 7:26 through 7:28 I think, then I went inside and came out a few minutes later. Walked further down my driveway (it's 75 yards long) and took some more pics. Those are the ones that really showed the different configurations of this thing. Those were time stamped 7:35 through 7:38 or so. I did not see anything going on with this thing at all, and the first I saw was this morning when I emailed them to myself. I was amazed and wanted to share.

I think I am going to have these analyzed, just so we can get a professional opinion on this. I've seen similar photos of these things, and I haven't seen any definitive proof that it is all in the camera.

[Zaggan]

Okay, update. Much searching this afternoon on planets, and wanted to rule out that Venus might be the "bright light" that I saw last night. Appears that these are in reality pics of Venus, as of 10 minutes ago, this light was present and on a tracking to be in a similar position as last night. Last night, the light was gone at 8 pm. Well, it's gone at 7:10 now due to cloud cover. Maybe we should move this to Cali's thread: practicing taking photos.

Thanks again Garuda..

[calikid]

Nice work.... good research.
Never considered taking test shot of Venus.
Will make a good addition to the test photo thread.
Thanks!

[Zaggan]

And I will say, these look a lot like some of the ufo pics I've seen that "defy logic". I'm not sure cell phones should be used as any type of reliable device. IMHO.

And I have a different take on the drone photo deal. There actually was a defense program that used drones to track individuals in heavy brush, called Project Oracle. It had a command and control system that was housed in a van. The only real trigger that I saw, is that this van was seen in a national forest while a test was going on, and the cover of the drones became the thing of the day to divert everyone from the real program. Project Oracle is to track and apprehend individuals in heavy underbrush that are fleeting whoever. Project Forester is the cover project for it.

Sorry. Soapbox. Carry on.

[tomi01uk]

Hi Zaggan,

I remember when you mentioned that years ago and I was always interested in following up with you on what you said. I think I remember you putting a badge in the post from the Project Forester. But that was at the time before Isaac released his material as well. All in all, it was very interesting what you recalled.

[Doc]

And I will say, these look a lot like some of the ufo pics I've seen that "defy logic". I'm not sure cell phones should be used as any type of reliable device. IMHO.

And I have a different take on the drone photo deal. There actually was a defense program that used drones to track individuals in heavy brush, called Project Oracle. It had a command and control system that was housed in a van. The only real trigger that I saw, is that this van was seen in a national forest while a test was going on, and the cover of the drones became the thing of the day to divert everyone from the real program. Project Oracle is to track and apprehend individuals in heavy underbrush that are fleeting whoever. Project Forester is the cover project for it.

Sorry. Soapbox. Carry on.

I'm glad you mentioned the drones and the possible answer. I thought at time that the idea of one or more of the drone pics as either a government program or a cover for one had a high likelihood of being "the answer". By that time I had concluded that it all boiled down to two questions. 1) Are they real pictures of objects or not? 2) If real, whose are they?I was never satisfied with the answers we had and very disappointed that it all ended the way it did. The questions were and are still worth pursuing.

[Zaggan]

Actually the clue came from the thread on Clay Pickering. It was only mentioned once, and dealt with "look for the old crows". Well, the Order of Old Crows refers to electronic warfare peeps, and I found the presentation done at a classified seminar online describing it. I found it odd that you had to have a security clearance to get in to hear the presentation, but the presentation material was on their web site. Shortly after I spoke about it, the site scrubbed it.

There were two programs: Project Forester, which involved using a standard drone for surveillance, and Project Oracle used a classified platform. Both were operated from a truck/van. The purpose of both were to locate individuals in heavy underbrush, like those fleeing capture. My guess is that someone had stumbled across the van (I think they referred to it as a telephone truck) and thus uncovered what the project was doing. It is my opinion that the Chad drone story was concocted to cover Project Oracle from being exposed. I also think there were kernels of real stuff in the Chad story, but basically it was a fabrication.

[Doc]

Actually the clue came from the thread on Clay Pickering. It was only mentioned once, and dealt with "look for the old crows". Well, the Order of Old Crows refers to electronic warfare peeps, and I found the presentation done at a classified seminar online describing it. I found it odd that you had to have a security clearance to get in to hear the presentation, but the presentation material was on their web site. Shortly after I spoke about it, the site scrubbed it.

There were two programs: Project Forester, which involved using a standard drone for surveillance, and Project Oracle used a classified platform. Both were operated from a truck/van. The purpose of both were to locate individuals in heavy underbrush, like those fleeing capture. My guess is that someone had stumbled across the van (I think they referred to it as a telephone truck) and thus uncovered what the project was doing. It is my opinion that the Chad drone story was concocted to cover Project Oracle from being exposed. I also think there were kernels of real stuff in the Chad story, but basically it was a fabrication.

Thanks for the additional information. How do you think the other supporting "whistleblower" pics from the supposed catalog fit in?

[Zaggan]

I think someone was having fun with where things were going.

[tomi01uk]

I think, Zaggan, that there might be some kind of institutional involvement in the drones saga. I still think it was too mighty a campaign to be pulled off without some kind of funding behind it. Why after all this time has nobody spoken out about it? Why after all this time has Dell and other large companies used the Isaac material, yet no claim of copyright has ever been filed?

I would assume just from the fact that nobody claimed copyright that this was an institutional or collective endeavor.

If it was someone's or some small group's personal hoax, well... there is less than one year before statue of limitations really kicks in, to make a copyright infringement claim. Which after this economic downturn, would be the thing to do if the drones saga was someone's personal "baby" in the sense of being a project of their art. Of course, putting it all out on the internet for years maybe considered public domain, but the words of Isaac were strong enough to not subject the items he released to be reproduced without his words attached to them... but only a good NY based copyright firm would want to enjoy fighting this one and there has got to be one firm crazy enough to take it on contingency if only for the publicity.. But that hasn't happened yet.

So maybe there is actually a new clue to be had in this saga, in that it's probably institutional because no one person has spoken out or made claim as they would if it was a personal or small group project without threatening consequences for speaking out.

Maybe the money they were paid would be claimed back... That could be enough reason for individuals and their families to keep silent.

[Doc]

I think, Zaggan, that there might be some kind of institutional involvement in the drones saga. I still think it was too mighty a campaign to be pulled off without some kind of funding behind it. Why after all this time has nobody spoken out about it? Why after all this time has Dell and other large companies used the Isaac material, yet no claim of copyright has ever been filed?

I would assume just from the fact that nobody claimed copyright that this was an institutional or collective endeavor.

If it was someone's or some small group's personal hoax, well... there is less than one year before statue of limitations really kicks in, to make a copyright infringement claim. Which after this economic downturn, would be the thing to do if the drones saga was someone's personal "baby" in the sense of being a project of their art. Of course, putting it all out on the internet for years maybe considered public domain, but the words of Isaac were strong enough to not subject the items he released to be reproduced without his words attached to them... but only a good NY based copyright firm would want to enjoy fighting this one and there has got to be one firm crazy enough to take it on contingency if only for the publicity.. But that hasn't happened yet.

So maybe there is actually a new clue to be had in this saga, in that it's probably institutional because no one person has spoken out or made claim as they would if it was a personal or small group project without threatening consequences for speaking out.

Maybe the money they were paid would be claimed back... That could be enough reason for individuals and their families to keep silent.

To me, one of the important hoax criteria is the amount of money/effort put into any element of it versus the anticipated return. The Isaac material seemed to have way too much of an investment if it was only a prank or something similar. If it was institutional to back up a cover story, that makes more sense to me. I know there are always exceptions and some people will do an awful lot to satisfy their ego and need for attention but those types rarely go for a big investment of time and money, they usually piggy-back onto a story as a "me too" fake witness or participant. I have a feeling there was something of substance to this Drone Saga that has not yet been discovered or revealed.