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epo333
05-23-2014, 03:17 AM
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A massive underwater entrance has been discovered off the Malibu, CA coast at Point Dume which appears to be the Holy Grail of UFO/USO researchers that have been looking for it over the last 40 years. The plateau structure is 1.35 miles x 2.45 miles wide, 6.66 miles from land and the entrance between the support pillars is 2745 feet wide and 630 feet tall. It also has what looks like a total nuclear bomb proof ceiling that is 500 feet thick. The discovery was made by Maxwell, Dale Romero and Jimmy Church, host of FADE to BLACK on the Dark Matter Radio Network on Monday, May 12th 2014 and announced on Facebook, Twitter and Church’s radio program the following day. The underwater base has been a mystery for many years with hundreds of UFO/USO sightings…many with photographs…but the entrance of the base has remained elusive…until now. The entrance can support nuclear sized submarines and massive UFO/USO activity and allow access to different military installations that are inside the US such as the China Lake Naval Base that is in the middle of the Mojave desert and the Naval Undersea Warfare Center in Hawthorne, NV between Las Vegas and Reno. In the photographs you can see its relation to the coastline, Los Angeles and its natural surroundings which to not match up with the structure itself…which is massive in scale.

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In the photographs you can see its relation to the coastline, Los Angeles and its natural surroundings which to not match up with the structure itself…which is massive in scale. The support pillars to the entrance are over 600 feet tall. Malibu, California, is known the world over for its scenic beauty and as the playground of the rich and famous. Few people know that it is also the land of UFOs.

A bit more at the link...


http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2014/05/massive-underwater-entrance-discovered-off-the-california-coast-2469318.html

majicbar
05-23-2014, 04:27 AM
Delusional. As a cartographer I know how these maps are made, this is an artifact of the map making process, it is not real. This does the work of the debunkers for them. The creditability of the whole subject is dependant on the facts being presented, being true. When we get sloppy, the truth becomes burried in all the garbage.

Garuda
05-23-2014, 06:42 AM
As a rule of thumb: never, ever, trust anything that appears on 'before it's news' only.

They're not interested in facts. They're interested in page views because that's how they make they're money.

Charlie Prime
05-23-2014, 12:01 PM
Interesting. It would be cool if some rich guy sent a petroleum industry ROV there to photograph this formation.

It's unfortunate, but http://beforeitsnews.com is a totally unreliable source of information. They have posted many, many frauds, hoaxes, and disinformations in the past.

Doc
05-24-2014, 01:58 AM
This story is related to the stories of an ancient race living under the Panamint Mountains and their silver ships that went on sea and air. The underwater passage is said to go from the Pacific Cost to the mountains and elsewhere. There is supposed to be a cave entrance in the southern Panamint Range. That was not far from my home and I had plans to go search for it as a hobby when I retired but health and impassable roads put that off for the foreseeable future. There is only a little in print about this, which I'll find and summarize/link later on.

CasperParks
05-24-2014, 11:51 AM
This story is related to the stories of an ancient race living under the Panamint Mountains and their silver ships that went on sea and air. The underwater passage is said to go from the Pacific Cost to the mountains and elsewhere. There is supposed to be a cave entrance in the southern Panamint Range. That was not far from my home and I had plans to go search for it as a hobby when I retired but health and impassable roads put that off for the foreseeable future. There is only a little in print about this, which I'll find and summarize/link later on.

It's a tad far south of Mt. Shasta. Haven't hear much about Mt. Shasta over the past number of years.

Edward
05-25-2014, 03:48 AM
It's a tad far south of Mt. Shasta. Haven't hear much about Mt. Shasta over the past number of years.


ECETI ranch and James Gilliland is set up there and Lots of "stuff" goes on around that mountain of Mt. Shasta.

Edward

WildMage
10-20-2014, 09:56 AM
An underground nuclear test called the 'Schooner Experiment' conducted in December 1968, supports the theory that caves in North and South America are intimately linked. In this test, detonated a 35-kiloton nuclear bomb in Desert of Nevada. Five days after the test, the radiation level increased from 10 to 20 times in Canada, 1000 miles away from the Nevada test site! The only way the radioactive dust could have traveled so far is through an interconnected system of caves extending all the way from Nevada to Canada! "

Bourke Lee, in his book "MEN OF THE VALLEY OF DEATH" (MacMillan Co., NY, 1932), chapter " Old Gold ", describes a conversation I had several years ago with a
small group of residents of the Valley of Death. The conversation eventually became the subject of Indian legends Paihute. At one point,

two of the men, Jack and Bill, described their experience with an "underground city" who claimed to have discovered after one of them fell through the bottom of a well of an old mine near Wingate Pass. They were in a natural underground cavern which they claimed to have followed about 20 miles north into the heart of the Panamint Mountains. To their amazement, they allegedly found a huge and ancient city-cave underground. They said they discovered within the city several 'mummies' in perfect condition, worn thick arm bands, gold spears, etc. The city had apparently been abandoned for ages, except for the mummies, and the entire underground system all seemed very old. was formerly lit, they found out by accident, by an ingenious system of lights fed by subterranean gases. They claimed to have seen a big 'round table' polished, looked like it could have been part of an ancient council chamber, giant statues of solid gold, vaulted stone and "drawers" full of gold bullion and precious stones of all kinds, heavy "trucks" stone, which were perfectly balanced and scientifically constructed so that a child could use them, huge stone doors which were almost perfectly balanced by counterweights, and other places of great interest.

They also claimed to have followed the caverns upwards to a level superior, which finally opened in the face of Panamints, halfway down the eastern slope, in the form of a few ancient tunnel-like quays. realized that the valley below was once under water were given, and eventually came to the conclusion that the arched openings were ancient 'docks' for ship sea. They could allegedly see Furnace Creek Hacienda and Wash far below them. They told Bourke Lee that they had brought some of the treasures of the caverns and tried to set up an agreement with certain people, including scientists associated with the Smithsonian Institute, in order to get help to explore and experience the city as one of the " wonders of the world. "

However, these efforts ended in disappointment when a "friend" of theirs stole the treasure (which was also the evidence), and were mocked and rejected by the scientists when they went to show the input the "mine" and could not find it. A recent explosion, according to them, had been modified and reorganized the whole field and the landscape looked like it had not been before. When Lee last heard from the two men, Bill and Jack, they were preparing to climb the east face of Panamints to locate the ancient tunnel openings or old docks at the top of the slope of the steep slope.

Bourke Lee never again saw or heard from friends. During the lengthy conversation wherein they first revealed the secret underground city to Lee and others, the discussion turned to the subject of a legend of Indian Paihute they had heard, which was very similar to an ancient Greek myth.

The Paihute legend concerned a tribal chief whose wife had died, and according to tradition, was a spiritual journey to the underworld to find her and take her back, he 'looked back' and, since it was forbidden he was not allowed to take his wife with him from the dead. would not be the same as the more tangible story told in an earlier file, as told by the Navaho Oga-Make, concerning a chief Paihute who would allegedly been physically taken to the underground cities of the Hav-musuvs well below the Panamints. After referring to this legend, the conversation turned to a discussion of one alleged subterranean race, who are believed to inhabit very deep caverns very below the Valley of Death. The Paihute legends of the "Hav-musuvs" indicate that these ancient inhabitants of Panamints abandoned the ancient city within the mountain itself and migrated to deeper and caverns larger below. Could the following story linked with Paihute legends ? The Hav-musuvs going to enter the conversation with the following discourse Bourke Lee: "...

WildMage
10-20-2014, 09:57 AM
The professor and Jack and Bill were sitting in the small canvas tent in Emigrant Canyon and heard the legend Full Professor said. "That story, in essence, is the story of Orpheus and Eurydice.

"Yes, I said" It's also a Paiute legend.. Some Indians told him the legend to John Wesley Powell in the sixties. "'That's very interesting," said the professor. "It's as close a parallel to Orpheus and Eurydice that the story could have been lifted bodily from the Greeks. " "Jack said, 'I would not be surprised. I knew a Greek. I've forgotten his name, but he drove one restaurant in almost every mining towns where ever I was. He was a great traveler. Greeks are great travelers. "Bill said, 'I do not mean restaurant Greeks. The Greeks of those talking died thousands of years ago. " "'So what? asked Jack, '. perhaps the ancient Greeks were also great travelers " "The teacher said." It's very interesting " "Now About that tunnel." Bill said, frowning 'You said this Indian he went through a tunnel to a foreign country, right? '

"Yes, I said." I think I called it a cave or a cavern, but I suppose a miner would call it a tunnel. Why?

"'This is strange," Bill said. "This hunter Indian who lives on the other side of the canyon has a story about a tunnel, one that does not have a thousand years either. Tom Wilson told me that his grandfather went through this tunnel and disappeared. Disappeared for three years, and when he returned he said he had been living in a strange land "between strangers. That tunnel is supposed to be somewhere within Panamits, not terribly far from where we're sitting here. " Now! What do you think of that? '

"Jack said, 'I think the grandfather Tom was a bad liar."

He probably knew the old legend. Powell heard it in Nevada in sixty five.

" "'It's very interesting," said the teacher. "'

I have an idea about this, "Bill said thoughtfully. Tom's grandfather might have wandered into some tunnel all the estramonio stunned to chew grass and then went out and found some early whites and stayed with them. Tom told me that the people spoke a strange language and ate food that was new to his grandfather, and wore clothes of leather. They had horses and gold. It could have been a party in Panamint Valley, and even the early explorers and settlers in Owens Valley. What do you think? " "Jack said, 'Yes. The Spaniards were here too. Therefore, they could have been Spanish or Greek. And where is that tunnel? And why Tom's grandfather had difficulty speaking the language? This is a completely different story than he told Buck. We are not getting anywhere at all with the Indians and Greeks ... To return for a moment to our discussion of geology, professor, have you been in Nevada much? "

From here the conversation went in a direction completely new ... Some years ago, a woman by the name of Joan Howard, who at the time was living in eastern Canada although originally from Britain, wrote a manuscript in which she described her own paranormal experiences with small entities " aliens. " Joan had suffered several meetings-type UFO abduction, at an age too young, while still living in Britain, and claimed to have had "psychic contact with beings that claimed to be of extraterrestrial origin. Such experiences were accompanied by a lot of manifestations of the occult, as poltergeist phenomena, psychic dreams, encounters with entities invisible, etc. Joan even admitted that often doubt the claims of these "beings" that his actions were manipulative and did not seem to match his claim that they were here as a sort of group of cosmic saviors to lead the humanity towards a new age of enlightenment. also warned other researchers to maintain a "critical and analytical mind" when it comes to aliens, in order not to fall into deception or tampering.

Perhaps, as he suggested to others, they might actually be here to prepare for a future invasion of this planet and were merely using it for various purposes, to help them to prepare the way, and all those words on their 'benevolence' was just that ... words! DESCRIBED She vivid "dreams" in which he saw the alien ships hovering over cities explosions terrified and frightened people through the streets with weapons powerful ray, the dreams she suggests could be something prophetic in nature. She described the entities as being small or dwarf, but was not sure if they were human or not, even though they tried to pretend to be some kind of evolved human species, something that the 'grays' have apparently done in order to break down any natural enmity which might prevent their " contactees "and" abductees "to receive the lies that intentionally feed them as part of their program of conquest and control.

Joan Howard, incidentally wrote a privately published book, titled "THE SPACE - OR SOMETHING - CONNECTION".

We refer to it here because it dealt with some experiences that she, or rather her husband, had shortly after arriving in the United States. In fact, she devoted an entire chapter to the story of her husband, which involved some incidents that took place while he was doing field work for a certain company, which required a lot of outdoor activity. During his employment with this company, 'they' (he and his co-workers) had to travel through a relatively unpopulated terrain in West Virginia, especially in the regions between Newville in Braxton County, and Helvetia in Randolph County, or more While general region in and around the northern part of Webster County.

During his travels through the woods and the desert and the hills, the mountains of West Virginia, he met with some very strange things, and heard stories of strangers locals on incidents caverns. At one point, he said, when his group ran across what appeared to be a pipe sticking out of the ground away from the nearest town. There was no other sign of civilization or anything manmade for miles on each hand, and yet here was this large pipe or tube sticking out from the ground. But more notable was that a flame was coming out of the pipe like were burning some type of gas. They never knew what it was. Also, in this same general area, they explored caverns which contained some very strange things.

In one of the caverns had strange like a strange hieroglyphic writing on the walls, and others said they heard what sounded like faint voices and sounds like machines moving within the earth, as if it were coming from beyond the walls of the caverns, or from their unexplored depths. Two men, according to him, slept a night to face some cave that contained a very deep abyss and unexplored aspects of their interior. The next morning one, the men woke up and discovered that his partner had disappeared, and again found no trace of him.

This particular cave, by the way, had become known as a place of unusual events, and a place to stay away from him. Some even went so far as to call it "The Liar Satan." Anyone who had been the case, could provide an answer to the disappearance of man. One of the most remarkable accounts that Joan's husband heard involved a man who claimed that while he was exploring the depths of a cave maze in particular in the area, suddenly met face to face with a woman. She was attractive but completely devoid of hair (such as someone who could have undergone radiation poisoning?). The woman, who spoke a language completely unknown to man, tried for some time to communicate. After discovering that they were not getting anywhere, they departed and went their separate ways.

WildMage
10-20-2014, 10:06 AM
I do love these types of stories ... thanx Doc for reminding me of The Panamints :) there are a few similar stories going around for California, and the southwest.

now for Cali sitting on a maze of subterranean caverns some filled with water ... I do love to contemplate the possibility and its significance... USO's would definitely make use of such an occurrence. The next question would ours or theirs?

--------------------------

In March 1980, John J. Williams, a "patriot" New Mexico who published the "REBEL MAGAZINE" anti-communist orientation (at the time available in: .. Consumertronics Co., c / o John J. Williams , Pres., 2011 Crescebt Dr., PO Box 537, Alamogardo, NM 88310) revealed some incredible details on an alleged subterranean system which the Navy had been exploring below the western United States.

The report appeared in issue No. 6 of his magazine, and was later reproduced in the Fall 1985 issue (# 164) of SEARCH Magazine, at that time edited by Marjorie Palmer, widow of the late Ray Palmer.
• The article, titled "Is CALIFORNIA FLOATS ON OCEAN" revealed the following:
"Some time ago, I heard a man in a television interview briefly mention that parts of California and neighboring states are floating on the Pacific Ocean. He was a high ranking Naval officer on a top-secret nuclear submarine that has been (and is) exploring and mapping these enormous caverns and passages enromes underneath the West for over 10 years.


"A friend of mine finally was able to trace the man. He now lives quietly in retirement and asked that no details that might put point towards or reveal it, because it does not want to advertise or draw attention of the government. After writing this article, I destroyed my files on him. This is his story ... "
Williams explains that not "all" of the areas in question are actually "resting" or "floating" on the ocean, however there are allegedly many subterranean cavities below the western United States, and are not limited to California, and Many of them consist of very large water systems, filled with water.

These have been explored via nuclear submarines to several hundred miles inland, particularly in the region of southern California and southern Oregon - northern California area.
Williams continues:
"... When he retired several years ago, despite about 10 years of intensive Naval study, the Navy had not yet reached their accuracies and handle dimensions. Today, the story may be different.
"He makes the following statements from his observations:
"The passageways are labyrinthine with widths from a few thousand feet (caverns), averaging about 100 feet.
"As dry caves, heights and depths vary greatly and in some cases, two or more caverns or passageways pass over or under each other at different depths.



"Most of the entrances lie just off the Continental Shelf
(Ie, on the continental slope - Branton).

"Most of the entrances are too small for submarine investigation, and many that are large enough lie in waters that are too deep.

"Some of the caverns (in Southern California) are full of oil, while others are filled with gases believed to approximate our atmosphere (in very ancient times).

"The San Joaquin Valley is essentially a portion of the original cavernous area that collapsed eons ago due to its enormous weight.

"What is being passed as the" San Andreas "are large unsupported chambers that are in the process of collapsing. When finally the BIG hits, many scientists believe that they know most of California will come off like a cold Hershey bar and slide chololate in the ocean. (It is postulated by some that an ancient land mass, which some believe may have been connected with what is now California, broke off and sank into the ocean during an ancient cataclysm - Branton)

"(We are deleting this section due to the possibility of undue stress and fear which may result from disclosure. Moreover, because of recent international events which may have resulted in a solution to this problem. Suffice it to say that involves a similar one that was portrayed in a James Bond movie, and which concerned underground caverns, Silicon Valley, nuclear weapons, and the San Andreas fault scenario - Branton).

"9. A WELL KNOWN nuclear submarine of the United States lost its way in these passages and disappeared forever. It was reported that lost OFFSHORE ELSEWHERE to keep the American people in total ignorance and to justify an enormous compensation to an eccentric American millionaire (who died in recent years) for providing a fictitious effort to "recovery."

"I have no reason to doubt the man.

I can not say for sure if these caverns and passageways exist or their extensions. The story sounds a bit fantastic, but I have no reason to doubt the man. I have seen copies of documentation that at least prove that he was a high ranking Naval officer (nuclear submarine in service) and a distinguished scientist. In fact, the scientific background and reputation are impeccable. Definitely can not be labeled a crackpot, crazy advertising or asylum.

I would love more information on this subject ... "

After further inquiries to Mr. Williams on the part of researchers 'inner earth', Williams responded with the following when asked if he had received no response to its request for more information about the alleged passageways beneath California :

"Since the publication of our article on the vast cavern network in much of California, we have received many responses and inquiries. Some of these responses appear to be from informed sources. Note that the material sent to us for this article was written by someone of very high repute whose credentials I personally checked. Due to an agreement with him, I can not reveal his identity.
"One response was from a retired (conventional submarine service - Branton) submarine commander, who according to him, spent many years in the waters off California. He stated that the caverns do NOT exist.

Another response was an anonymous person who cited seismographic non-published information of an unprecedented oil company, and said,
'Although most of the caverns is in your drawing are smaller, larger or located somewhat differently from the actual caverns, you are essentially correct ... My information is more up to date than what you apparently hoped to be. '

He (or she) did not provide any map to point out our differences, just some written descriptions.

However, some knowledgeable person could probably deduce its global "map" of the voluminous seismographic data sent. I am in the process of searching for this post, it has been several years, and could have been shot ...

By the way, the seismic data from the oil company had a lot of data around the Fresno area if that were of any help.

"One incident which tends to confirm the fact that California is actually floating in the ocean was a story that made ​​headlines in recent years. This incident involved an oil discovery beneath Long Beach, California. When oil companies began pumping oil under the ground in Long Beach it was soon learned that the entire city would begin to SINK IN THE OCEAN!

"It sank up to 26 feet and dikes had to be built to keep out the water. The problem is (temporarily) being rectified by 'water injection', ie pumping an equivalent amount of WATER down the amount of oil and water extracted, in order to keep the city AFLOAT! "

One of the things that may be of interest in connection with the account of Mr. Williams was a statement that was made ​​by a prominent California Bigfoot investigator by the name of Virginia Louise Swanson, who has done a lot of study on caves and their connections with the Pie-Large phenomenon.

She refers to these caverns in the following words:

"... From somewhere I got the idea that a large portion of Death Valley is in a rock platform FALSE. A certain type of earthquake would collapse completely into a huge series of caverns that open into another Grand Canyon. "

To our knowledge, the only nuclear submarines ever to disappear under mysterious circumstances were the USS SCORPION and the USS THRESHER.

It is not clear whether the retired Navy Officer who John J. Williams spoke spoke was referring to THRESHER or the SCORPION, although the disappearance of the Thresher probably caused more publicity. The Thresher was the boat BOAT GUIDE or 'Flag' from the class of the most advanced submarines in the world nuclear attack.

It was designed to operate deeper and more silently than any of its predecessors and was also endowed with significant advances in sonar equipment, in noise reduction, and fire control. However, it was the most advanced in the world at the time of his disappearance international submarine, and would have been ideal for a top secret mission choice, such as exploring the caverns mentioned by John Williams source.

WildMage
10-20-2014, 10:07 AM
The April 10, 1963 (according to official reports), The Thresher, under the command of Lieutenant Commander John W. Harvey, USN, with a total of 129 men (comprised of the crew, civilian technicians, and observers) disappeared without explanation .

OR JUST A TRACE or clue as to the fate of the boat or its occupants were ever recovered: no oil slicks, no radiation, no floating debris, or similar signs of wreckage were found were never seen. Interestingly, almost all the reports at the time indicated that the ship had "disappeared" or "lost", not "sunk". A woman whose husband was in the unfortunate ship reported her belief that her husband was still alive.

Theologically speaking, the possibility of a long-distance connection or "communion" on a deep, emotional level between a husband and wife should not necessarily be consigned to the realm of the occult or "psychic" phenomena. Many religions believe that the very spiritual nature of the union of a husband and wife after the consummation of a marriage become, according to Christian teaching "one flesh".

The words of this woman, who was interviewed by Will Carson and Jeannie Joy - two writers devoted to pursuing strange events - shortly after the Thresher incident, were as follows:
"My husband was on the submarine Thresher when it disappeared. I do not consider myself a widow. I do not think my husband is dead. No, it's not a matter of simply not being able to believe it, to accept reality is that just can not get over the conviction that he is still alive somewhere. I love my husband very much. I know he loved - loves me. We were very close. We always knew when something was happening we any of us. Intuition, I guess. I should have felt something the instant there was trouble, if he was really in trouble and he knew it - a matter of life or death, but I did not feel it. "

"What do you think really happened," Carson and Joy asked the attractive young woman.

"Most people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I believe the Thresher was captured."

"By whom?"

"I can not say for sure, but it WAS a Russian submarine spotted near there that day (ie, near where REPORTED disappeared, 220 miles from Boston harbor) - only I can not imagine how even the Russians could CAPTURE a boat like the Thresher without leaving the slightest evidence. "

WildMage
10-20-2014, 10:15 AM
A ship in an underground facility?... I wonder if the chamber can be filled with water to float this baby, and if so where would this ship go?
1259

Underwater caves, these divers are really brave...
1260

1261

These cave kind of look manmade, but it might just be my imagination running with the ball ;)
1262

1263

majicbar
10-20-2014, 07:53 PM
The April 10, 1963 (according to official reports), The Thresher, under the command of Lieutenant Commander John W. Harvey, USN, with a total of 129 men (comprised of the crew, civilian technicians, and observers) disappeared without explanation .

OR JUST A TRACE or clue as to the fate of the boat or its occupants were ever recovered: no oil slicks, no radiation, no floating debris, or similar signs of wreckage were found were never seen. Interestingly, almost all the reports at the time indicated that the ship had "disappeared" or "lost", not "sunk". A woman whose husband was in the unfortunate ship reported her belief that her husband was still alive.

Theologically speaking, the possibility of a long-distance connection or "communion" on a deep, emotional level between a husband and wife should not necessarily be consigned to the realm of the occult or "psychic" phenomena. Many religions believe that the very spiritual nature of the union of a husband and wife after the consummation of a marriage become, according to Christian teaching "one flesh".

The words of this woman, who was interviewed by Will Carson and Jeannie Joy - two writers devoted to pursuing strange events - shortly after the Thresher incident, were as follows:
"My husband was on the submarine Thresher when it disappeared. I do not consider myself a widow. I do not think my husband is dead. No, it's not a matter of simply not being able to believe it, to accept reality is that just can not get over the conviction that he is still alive somewhere. I love my husband very much. I know he loved - loves me. We were very close. We always knew when something was happening we any of us. Intuition, I guess. I should have felt something the instant there was trouble, if he was really in trouble and he knew it - a matter of life or death, but I did not feel it. "

"What do you think really happened," Carson and Joy asked the attractive young woman.

"Most people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I believe the Thresher was captured."

"By whom?"

"I can not say for sure, but it WAS a Russian submarine spotted near there that day (ie, near where REPORTED disappeared, 220 miles from Boston harbor) - only I can not imagine how even the Russians could CAPTURE a boat like the Thresher without leaving the slightest evidence. "
WTF. Of all the speculation posted here on the forum, this is beyond wrong. The Thresher sank right below it's escort ship. Thresher sank in radio contact with the escort ship, sonar heard it's breakup which was nearly instant with water at 2400 mph in a tenth of a second according to an article in Navy Times. Photos of the wreckage are available. Clearly the sources used as reference for this post on Thresher not being found are wrong.

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130404/NEWS/304040021/50-years-later-look-what-really-sank-Thresher

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/k19/disasters_detail2.html

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

Note: The Wikipedia page goes on the hypothesis of a water system failure, but the article in the Navy Times makes for compelling testimony otherwise. In any case the accident forced the Navy to change it's reactor operations to recover from shutdowns at critical times.

newyorklily
10-21-2014, 03:11 AM
Something has been sending signals from off the coast of Sweden. Many think it is a Russian submarine but Russia denies that any are missing. As far as I know, the source still hasn't been found. Where is it?

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/world/europe/swedish-navy-hunts-for-source-of-underwater-signals.html?_r=0&referrer=

aquila
10-21-2014, 04:45 PM
cavern

Doc
10-21-2014, 06:12 PM
WildMage: Thanks for posting the Panamint and Hav-Musuv information, which is what I was referring to back then. It is the entrance to the Hav-Musuv tunnel/cavern that is rumored to be in the Southern Panamints. I had made a couple of "surveys" of the area to get oriented for a serious effort to see if it could be found. The first time we went out there we ran into a Jeep club that was coming out of the canyon entrance--they were turning back because the road which used to be maintained had become impassible through floods and neglect due to lack of funding. As a result I went and bought Jeep that wouldn't have to turn back from anything in the desert--then my health took a dive and I had to put my plan for exploration on hold.

(BTW, the Thresher is not the submarine in the story. The Russian K129 was the object of the Glomar Explorer search. There is a mention of which US Submarine went through the subterranean passage to the Panamints and I will find it. I don't recall the submarine being lost as part of the story.)

WildMage
10-23-2014, 07:35 AM
I do recall, seeing a special on how Howard Hughes recover the submarine. Some scheme about mining the seafloor. Howard Hughes was in the middle of a lot things back then.

-----

http://www.pe.com/articles/robidoux-675966-gold-riverside.html


San Bernardino Caves

Kokoweef Caverns
SWORN STATEMENT OF E. P. DORR.

Below you will find a transcription of the sworn statement made by Earl Dorr as it pertained to Kokoweef Caverns. This was published in the California Mining Journal, November 1940, though written in 1934.

It is speculated that Earl was attempting to get capital at the time for his projects in the area.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

This is to certify that there is located in San Bernardino County, California, about two hundred and fifty miles from Los Angeles, a certain cave.

Traveling over state highways by automobile, the cave is reached in about ten hours.

A Civil Engineer, Mr. Morton, and I spent four days exploring the cave for more than eight miles. We carried with us Altimeters, Pedometers, and a Theodolite, with which to observe and record actual directions, take elevations and measurements by triangulation. Our exploration revealed the following facts:

1. From the mouth of the cave we descended as shown by the Altimeters to be about 2000 feet, where we encountered a canyon, which from the Altimeters and by calculations we found to be from 3000 to 3500 feet deeper; making total depth of 5400 feet from the mouth where we entered the caves to the floor of the canyon.

2. We found the cave divided into many caverns or chambers, of various sizes, all filled and embellished with Stalactites and Stalagmites, besides many grotesque and fantastic shapes that make these caves one of the wonders of the world.


3. The largest chamber we explored is about 300 ft. wide, 400 feet long and from 50 to 110 feet high. It is encrusted with crystals, fashioned into festoons of innumerable Stalactites, that hang from the ceiling, some of which are extremely large.

One, the largest seen, is 27 feet in diameter and hangs 1510 feet down into a 3000 ft. canyon. This great Stalactite is perpetually washed by water flowing down over it and falling into the dark canyon depths. The huge glistening white crystal is 500 feet longer than the Eiffel Tower, and challenged us with amazement and wonder.

4. There is a flowing river on the floor of the canyon, which rises and falls with tidal regularity. All measurements and estimates of the river, including its tides and beach sands were reckoned by triangulation, taken with the Theodolite, and while we did not reach the river, nevertheless, taking observations with our theodolite and its telescope, we reckoned the river to be about 300 feet wide at high tide and 10 feet wide at low tide. It rises and falls from 7 ? to 8 feet. The Peysert brothers confirm our reckoning.

5. When the tide is out, there is exposed on both sides of the river from 100 to 159 feet of black sand, which the Peysert brothers report is very rich in placer gold. They report the sands on the river shore to be from 4 to 11 feet deep; and on an average about 8 feet deep.

6. There are numerous ledges above the canyon that are from 10 to 40 feet wide and covered with sand. We personally explored the ledge sands for a distance of more than eight miles, finding little variation in the depth and width of these ledge sands. And wherever examined,the ledge sands are found to be fabulously rich in placergold.

7. I have known intimately Oliver, Buck and George Peysert From my boyhood. I have discussed these caves with them repeatedly and thoroughly. They have reported to me in detail, their experience in exploring the caves.

One of them, George, lost his life in the cave. Buck and Oliver say George was killed by diving in the river on the floor of the canyon.

He struck an unseen rock, which killed him instantly. They have reported to me repeatedly their mining experiences and say they mined on the beach sands of the river a total in all of six weeks.

They carried lumber down to the river and constructed a sluice box and, using a pump, the three mined for six weeks, during which time they recovered more than %57,000 in gold, (gold at $20.00 per ounce); they sent their gold directly to the U.S. Mint and banked the returns in a bank in Needles, California, and another bank in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I last talked to them in my home about November 10th 1934, at which time they repeated their former statements, giving information as to how they discovered the river, and more of their experiences in gold mining. They recovered several of the largest nuggets of gold ever found in California.

Both Mr. Morton and myself filled our pockets with the sands from the ledges, carried it out and had it assayed. Just what Mr. Morton's sand assayed, I do not know, but it was approximately $2000. per ton.

I carried out ten pounds and two ounces of the ledge sand, and panned seven pounds, recovering more than $7.00 in gold, with gold at $20.00 an ounce. I sold the gold for $18.00 per ounce.

The balance of my ten pounds of sand I sent to John Herman, a Los Angeles Assayer. His assay certificate shows a value of $2,144.47 per yard - gold at $20.67 per ounce.

I, E. P. DORR residing at 300 Aldena Street, Pasadena California make the foregoing statements for the purpose of inducing investors to invest in the work of mining the gold in these caves, and solemnly swear that all statements made hereinabove are true and that all persons will find the physical conditions in the cave as above stated.

SUBSCRIBED and sworn to this ___day of December, 1934.

Source:E Adventure Net <-- http://www.e-adventure.net/land/caving/epdorr.html / or / --OOPARTS: http://www.s8int.com/giants9.html

----------------------------

Devil's Hole

Devil's Hole is a 10 x 20 meter limestone sinkhole in the upper end of Death Valley National Park. It is flooded to within 15 meters of the surface of the surrounding ground. The depth is currently unknown. People have described the water as rising and falling with the tide. It could not be connected to the Pacific Ocean as it would flood the area. However it may be connected to an underground sea or more likely to and underground river. A river changes height and flow rate constantly which could explain this variation.

There is another entrance to this water body that has been closed by the Park Service. Reason being the disapperance of two boys who were snorkling in the cave. It is alleged that they sealed that entrance shut. The Devil's Hole entrance is still open although now it is fenced off and entry is restricted because of the Pup fish found in Devil's Hole.

NEVADA, PAHRUMP - NW of Pahrump [which lies due west from Las Vegas] is Devil's Hole National Monument, an annex of Death Valley National Monument. It is an apparently "bottomless" aqua-cave containing a species of cave fish located no where else in the world. Like the legendary "subterranean grand canyon" -- which reportedly runs beneath the Kokoweef and Dorr Peaks near the SW flank of the Ivanpah Mts. just south of highway 91 and NW of Needles, California -- the Devil's Hole water level ALSO reportedly rises and falls with the tide, suggesting a connection with a massive underground sea below and upstream, possibly in the area of eastern Nevada and western Utah. At least 2 boys disappeared trying to explore Devil's Hole, and Navy scuba divers were lowered on cables and reported seeing a large subterranean river which roared up from below, flowed across a wide expanse although they could not estimate the depth because of a myriad of colonnades of black rock through which the river flowed, before plunging once again down an abyss. This reportedly occurred in a cave NEAR Devil's Hole.

Another legend regards two divers who were lost in Devil's Hole. Allegedly a diving tank having the serial number of one of the divers was found floating months later in the Bay of Cortez near Baja, California. In reviewing the U.S. Park Service historical file on Devil's Hole (ACC # 1240, DEVA # 44646) there was reference to this event, but the diving tank find was not mentioned. (It may be that this was not reported to the park service since it allegedly occurred months later than the dive.)

The June 23, 1965 Reno Evening Gazette , reported that professional diver Jim Houtz descended to 315 feet looking for the two lost divers but found no sign of them. Houtz stated that: " … Devil's Hole has an unknown source of water; perhaps an underground river." "The source of water could be limitless."

http://www.in-the-desert.com/rivers.html

WildMage
10-23-2014, 07:38 AM
One last tidbit of weirdness -- re: the So Cal underground tunnels, cities, waterways:

The Underground City Of The Lizard People

Deep beneath the heart of Los Angeles’ financial district, hundreds of feet below the huge downtown edifices that house banks, corporate offices, and government agencies, lies another city remembered only in obscure Indian legends, an underground world built by a strange race that vanished five thousand years ago.

At least that’s what mining engineer W. Warren Shufelt claimed in the January 29, 1934 edition of the Los Angeles Times. According to reporter Jean Bosquet, Shufelt was ready to dig up downtown L.A. in search of this ancient subterranean civilization.

Shufelt had first heard of the city in a Hopi Indian legend about the “Lizard People.” They were a fabled lost race who had who had nearly been wiped out after a meteor shower rained down on the


Southwest back around 3,000 BC. (Arizona’s famous Winslow Crater was said to be Ground Zero of this fiery deluge.)

The Lizard People constructed thirteen subterranean settlements along the Pacific Coast, to shelter the tribe against future disasters. These underground cities housed a thousand families each, along with stockpiles of food. As the story had it, the tribe used a “chemical solution” that melted solid bedrock to bore out the tunnels and rooms of their subsurface shelters.

Along with housing their people in the event of a disaster, the tunnels were also constructed to hold a trove of golden tablets that chronicled the tribe’s history, the origin of humankind, and the story of the world back to creation. Shufelt was particularly interested in these tablets for both pecuniary and archeological reasons.

A Hopi chief named Little Green Leaf told Shufelt that the vanished race’s capital city was located under present-day downtown Los Angeles. In 1933, after surveying the area, Shufelt occupied the Banning property at 518 North Hill Street and sank a 350-shaft straight down, digging for what he said was a “treasure room” directly underneath. Shufelt said that he had located gold in the catacombs below with the aid of his “radio X-ray.”

This peculiar instrument, which was sort of a tricked-up dowsing rod, had also helped Shufelt map the location and extent of the underground tunnels. He said that the subterranean city was shaped like a giant lizard, with the head in the vicinity of Chavez Ravine (the present location of Dodger Stadium), and the tail tapering out beneath the Central Library. The “key room,” the chamber that contained the map of the city and the directory to the gold tablets, lay several hundred feet under the present site of Times-Mirror Square. Shufelt also claimed that he’d traced passages stretching to the area around the Southwest Museum, and said that ventilation tunnels extended westward, opening at the Pacific Ocean.

Despite all his extensive mapping and plotting of the treasure-filled underground city, Shufelt never actually found it. Shortly after the Times story appeared, the project, which had been authorized by the City Council over a year earlier, suddenly ceased, and Shufelt and his cohorts disappeared. The whole mysterious, improbable business was written off by a hoax, and quickly forgotten. Since then, inexplicable tunnels have been unearthed in downtown Los Angeles, but they’ve usually been explained away as the work of smugglers hiding illegal Chinese laborers in the 19th century.

But Shufelt wasn’t the only modern Californian who believed that an ancient underground city lay beneath Los Angeles. As a postscript to this strange little tale, let’s look at the vision of Miss Edith Elden Robinson of Pico Rivera, which appeared in the highly respected American Society for Psychic Research’s journal.

On the evening of December 22, 1933, five weeks before Shufelt’s excavations hit the pages of the Times, the clairvoyant Miss Robinson envisioned that under Los Angeles lay “a vast city…in mammoth tunnels extending to the sea-shore.” She said that the tunnels had been constructed by a vanished race to protect themselves from danger, and to provide access to the sea.

Who knows? Maybe this fabulous subterranean city really existed. Perhaps it’s even populated with latter-day Lizard People who live hidden and unsuspected hundreds of feet below modern-day Los Angeles, emerging only furtively to watch the 21st-century barbarians slowly strangle their own surface-level civilization with smog, traffic and urban sprawl. –MM

Weird California

http://www.weirdus.com/states/california/fabled_people_and_places/lizard_people/index.php