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View Full Version : How would ET disclosure change our legal system?



calikid
01-17-2020, 07:07 PM
A big part of societies Political system has to do with legislature and lawmakers.
I am trying to picture what the legal system would look like after the ET presence is acknowleged.
How would the laws we have change?
What happens in a courtroom when a defendant says "ET did it!", is that reasonable doubt?
How would law enforcement deal with claims of home invasions & abductions by ET vs what they do today?

I assume the form of disclosure will be a factor.
Will the people be told that we know ET exists, but we have no idea what they are?
Or will we discover that ET has been in communication with government officials for many years?

I'm going to ponder on this, write more later.
If anyone else has ideas on topic, please share.

CasperParks
01-18-2020, 01:15 AM
A big part of societies Political system has to do with legislature and lawmakers.
I am trying to picture what the legal system would look like after the ET presence is acknowleged.
How would the laws we have change?
What happens in a courtroom when a defendant says "ET did it!", is that reasonable doubt?
How would law enforcement deal with claims of home invasions & abductions by ET vs what they do today?

I assume the form of disclosure will be a factor.
Will the people be told that we know ET exists, but we have no idea what they are?
Or will we discover that ET has been in communication with government officials for many years?

I'm going to ponder on this, write more later.
If anyone else has ideas on topic, please share.

That reminds of a Babylon 5 episode. A guy was suing a grey alien because his great grandfather was abducted.

It's possible, and depending on how Disclosure happens... Lawmakers could pass legislation that protects ETs from criminal charges and civil lawsuits. ETs could have their own set of laws that allowed humans abductions because they hadn't reached a "certain stage of development as a species".

Wally
01-18-2020, 02:17 AM
Taking legal actions for abductions or cattle mutilation would probably be tricky. Who would you report such things to? It's very likely there are multiple extraterrestrial groups and I imagine that the good ones are helping to keep the bad ones in line and stop them from taking over the planet or enslaving us. It could be entirely possible that the ranchers would get reimbursed for cattle that are killed. Regular criminals trying to blame extraterrestrials for their crimes probably wouldn't work all that well either.

M-Albion-3D
01-18-2020, 08:45 AM
The dawn of Disclosure could very well usher in a new form of communication between humans with the introduction of the telepathic method. ET, by all accounts, has done away with lip movement noise in favor of "brain to brain" chat so it seems. I've often wondered how this would work in society. Would private thoughts be a thing of the past and if so, how could this affect the legal system?

The legal system is essentially based on the "lie or not to lie" or its detection, and therefore, would the lie become, ipso facto obsolete?

"No law, no lawyers"....:angel_not:

<em>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ouGNlY5Fk

calikid
01-18-2020, 05:44 PM
That reminds of a Babylon 5 episode. A guy was suing a grey alien because his great grandfather was abducted.

It's possible, and depending on how Disclosure happens... Lawmakers could pass legislation that protects ETs from criminal charges and civil lawsuits. ETs could have their own set of laws that allowed humans abductions because they hadn't reached a "certain stage of development as a species".

So you are saying if we normalize relations with ET, we need to grant them immunity for past crimes?
And if Govenment officials were involved, we would need to grant them immunity too?
But this date forward, crimes will be charged.
Boy, I'd hate to be the cop who tried to put the cuffs on ET. Get the feeling might be tricky.

calikid
01-18-2020, 05:49 PM
Taking legal actions for abductions or cattle mutilation would probably be tricky. Who would you report such things to? It's very likely there are multiple extraterrestrial groups and I imagine that the good ones are helping to keep the bad ones in line and stop them from taking over the planet or enslaving us. It could be entirely possible that the ranchers would get reimbursed for cattle that are killed. Regular criminals trying to blame extraterrestrials for their crimes probably wouldn't work all that well either.

Who would do the reimbursements? Our government? ET?
And as far as blaming ET goes, what if ET did do it? Certainly have to allow an accussed defendant the right to make his case. Just not sure how one would go about proving ET involvement. They so sneaky.

calikid
01-18-2020, 06:21 PM
The dawn of Disclosure could very well usher in a new form of communication between humans with the introduction of the telepathic method. ET, by all accounts, has done away with lip movement noise in favor of "brain to brain" chat so it seems. I've often wondered how this would work in society. Would private thoughts be a thing of the past and if so, how could this affect the legal system?

The legal system is essentially based on the "lie or not to lie" or its detection, and therefore, would the lie become, ipso facto obsolete?

"No law, no lawyers"....:angel_not:

<snip Video>


Wonder how deep the telepathy thing would go?
Maybe it is impossible to lie using that form of communication? All thoughts/memoris laid open and bare?
Wouldn't need lie detectors. Maybe eliminate perjury from the books, if lies were impossible.

Shere Khaan
01-18-2020, 07:01 PM
I think it would be more along the lines of diplomatic immunity for aliens, but more from the perspective that there is no way we can get them to submit to human jurisdiction. I mean, what if they had been here before us? And as for past crimes are they even seen as crimes? Would the aliens understand why it's ok for a human to butcher a cow but not an alien?

But really it would involve reworking the legal and security structure in the entire world; or at least the oecd to begin with. Surely everyone would see the need for a united front and consistent laws across the globe with the threat of alien interference. The pessimist in me worries that countries would fight more and try and align with factions of aliens to get an edge, making a global strategy moot.

Wally
01-18-2020, 08:04 PM
Who would do the reimbursements? Our government? ET?
And as far as blaming ET goes, what if ET did do it? Certainly have to allow an accussed defendant the right to make his case. Just not sure how one would go about proving ET involvement. They so sneaky.

For the reimbursements the ET could probably just get away with giving (or selling) some of their technology/art/culture to the ranchers. To the ET the items given would likely be inconsequential (baubles and trinkets) but to us it would seem like magic, or the work of Davinci or Michelangelo.

CasperParks
01-18-2020, 10:18 PM
So you are saying if we normalize relations with ET, we need to grant them immunity for past crimes?
And if Govenment officials were involved, we would need to grant them immunity too?
But this date forward, crimes will be charged.
Boy, I'd hate to be the cop who tried to put the cuffs on ET. Get the feeling might be tricky.

Sorry for any misunderstandings. Not saying that I believe immunity for past crimes by involved governments and aliens.

I set aside personal views and answered as to how it could play-out...

calikid
01-21-2020, 06:03 AM
I think it would be more along the lines of diplomatic immunity for aliens, but more from the perspective that there is no way we can get them to submit to human jurisdiction. I mean, what if they had been here before us? And as for past crimes are they even seen as crimes? Would the aliens understand why it's ok for a human to butcher a cow but not an alien?

It is possible the idea of personal property is foreign to ET, so taking a cow might seem like picking fruit off a tree.
I wonder if it would even be possible to teach ET such a concept.



But really it would involve reworking the legal and security structure in the entire world; or at least the oecd to begin with. Surely everyone would see the need for a united front and consistent laws across the globe with the threat of alien interference. The pessimist in me worries that countries would fight more and try and align with factions of aliens to get an edge, making a global strategy moot.

A big job "reworking" that structure for an entire planet.
OECD? Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, a World Wide economy organization?
Not that familar with them, track record of legislating global laws? Seems like United Nations would be a good (better?) choice.

As for countries fighting for the power ET tech could provide, seems like we are already there.

calikid
01-21-2020, 06:10 AM
For the reimbursements the ET could probably just get away with giving (or selling) some of their technology/art/culture to the ranchers. To the ET the items given would likely be inconsequential (baubles and trinkets) but to us it would seem like magic, or the work of Davinci or Michelangelo.

One would hope that ET has "The Arts" and could share such things.
The Tech is more readily apparent. But would the goverment allow such Tech into the hands of common folk, like ranchers.

Wally
01-21-2020, 06:32 AM
And as far as blaming ET goes, what if ET did do it? Certainly have to allow an accussed defendant the right to make his case. Just not sure how one would go about proving ET involvement. They so sneaky.
What kind of crimes could a defendant be able to plausibly pass off as the work of ET though? A poacher could possibly claim that it was 'alien animal mutilation' instead of them I suppose, but ET usually don't target wild animals as far as I know, and they don't usually take skins, tusk, or horns.

Shere Khaan
01-21-2020, 11:35 AM
A big job "reworking" that structure for an entire planet.
OECD? Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, a World Wide economy organization?
Not that familar with them, track record of legislating global laws? Seems like United Nations would be a good (better?) choice.

As for countries fighting for the power ET tech could provide, seems like we are already there.

It most certainly is a big job but when national sovereignty, is in effect, useless because aliens can do whatever the hell they want, then you need to do something to keep people on the same page.

When I said the oecd, I meant the rich developed countires that would be in a position to tackle the problem initially; poor or developing countries may have more immediate concerns. I didn't mean for the actual oecd to do anything. As for the UN, they can't do anything; it will never lead the world, only get dragged along behind.

calikid
01-22-2020, 03:47 PM
What kind of crimes could a defendant be able to plausibly pass off as the work of ET though? A poacher could possibly claim that it was 'alien animal mutilation' instead of them I suppose, but ET usually don't target wild animals as far as I know, and they don't usually take skins, tusk, or horns.

What about a criminal who commits Kidnapping?
Depending on the circumstances (victim alive or dead? Body discovered?). If a defendant is identified, he could claim it was not him but an ET Abduction. Remember, this is post disclosure.

calikid
01-22-2020, 03:58 PM
It most certainly is a big job but when national sovereignty, is in effect, useless because aliens can do whatever the hell they want, then you need to do something to keep people on the same page.

When I said the oecd, I meant the rich developed countires that would be in a position to tackle the problem initially; poor or developing countries may have more immediate concerns. I didn't mean for the actual oecd to do anything. As for the UN, they can't do anything; it will never lead the world, only get dragged along behind.



Kind of like an ant colony passing a law that humans cannot trample their ant hill.
Looks good on paper, but try to enforce. Note my earlier comment about attempting to put handcuffs on ET.

Would be good to have communications with ET, to understand thier motivations for the actions they take.
Either we educate them & develope treaties (maybe already done?), or avoid situations that result in catastrophy.
.
It is curious you mention "rich developed countries" vs "Poor or developing countries".
Hard not to see some parallels. Rich countries can fly over poor countries, and the poor countries (third world nations) can't do much about it besides complain.
Question is, are the Rich countries becoming the "new third world nations", left impudent by ET?

epo333
01-22-2020, 09:14 PM
Ha! How would we know if the accused ET didn't mind meld the witnesses, or the judge?

Maybe even go back in time and undo a crime?

I think if Alien/ETs were to agree with the laws of man, then it would likely be a con of some sort. I mean, after all these centuries who could trust them??

More then likely we will be abiding by their laws!!!

M-Albion-3D
01-22-2020, 09:57 PM
Ha! How would we know if the accused ET didn't mind meld the witnesses, or the judge?

Maybe even go back in time and undo a crime?

I think if Alien/ETs were to agree with the laws of man, then it would likely be a con of some sort. I mean, after all these centuries who could trust them??

More than likely we will be abiding by their laws!!!



And who is to say they even have "law"? It is so easy for the human mind to project human virtue of good versus bad and right versus wrong, but would that be the right thing to do?....oops:rolleyes:

Located in the massive "sinkhole" of Hebes Chasma on Mars, there is a giant pictograph that I call an "artistic alien rendering" many miles across depicting a "labrador type dog head" with a bird-like decapitated head in its mouth. And also, just barely visible is a defined shape of an arrow pierced through the bird's head.

This is an amazing statement of morality in art, alien art. Was the bird killed for food or sport?

If morality resides in the alien mind, there's a good chance I think, we could see some form of legislative body or decorum.

But God help us if we will have the need for an alien attorney. :nono:

calikid
01-24-2020, 02:42 PM
And who is to say they even have "law"? It is so easy for the human mind to project human virtue of good versus bad and right versus wrong, but would that be the right thing to do?....oops:rolleyes:

Located in the massive "sinkhole" of Hebes Chasma on Mars, there is a giant pictograph that I call an "artistic alien rendering" many miles across depicting a "labrador type dog head" with a bird-like decapitated head in its mouth. And also, just barely visible is a defined shape of an arrow pierced through the bird's head.

This is an amazing statement of morality in art, alien art. Was the bird killed for food or sport?

If morality resides in the alien mind, there's a good chance I think, we could see some form of legislative body or decorum.

But God help us if we will have the need for an alien attorney. :nono:

Anthropomorphize - to assign human characteristics to things non- human.
An alien attorney. There's something I had not considered...

Wally
01-27-2020, 02:33 AM
Anthropomorphize - to assign human characteristics to things non- human.
An alien attorney. There's something I had not considered...

Just make sure you don't get the hyper-chicken from Futurama to represent you.

calikid
01-28-2020, 02:05 AM
Just make sure you don't get the hyper-chicken from Futurama to represent you.

I watched Futurama for a season or two, a few years back.
I think my favorite character was "Bender" the Bohemian Robot.
Very entertaining for an animated show.
But it's been awhile. Not familar with the hyper-chicken? Was he an attorney chicken?

Wally
01-28-2020, 04:38 AM
I watched Futurama for a season or two, a few years back.
I think my favorite character was "Bender" the Bohemian Robot.
Very entertaining for an animated show.
But it's been awhile. Not familar with the hyper-chicken? Was he an attorney chicken?

Yeah, you can find more info on him at:
https://theinfosphere.org/Hyper-Chicken
Futurama was great as a comedy, but the believability of some of the science left a lot to be desired.