Travis Walton Encounter: George Knapp C2C 1-29- 2012

[Doc]

Travis Walton Encounter
1am - 5am ET
10pm - 2am PT



Date:
01-29-12


Host:
George Knapp


Guests:
Travis Walton (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/walton-travis/6521), Yvonne Smith (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/smith-yvonne/7075)


In this 4-hour special, George Knapp welcomes Travis Walton (http://www.travis-walton.com/), who'll discuss his 1975 UFO abduction, chronicled in the book Fire in the Sky. He'll be joined by Steve Pierce and John Goulette, who both witnessed the abduction, as well as UFO abduction expert Yvonne Smith (http://www.ysmith.com/), who founded the Close Encounters Resource Organization.
Website(s):

travis-walton.com (http://www.travis-walton.com/)
ysmith.com (http://www.ysmith.com/)

Book(s):

Fire in the Sky (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1569247102/ctoc)
Chosen: Recollections Of UFO Abductions Through Hypnotherapy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0615208894/ctoc)

[Doc]

From Guiliano Marinkovic today:

Dear Colleagues.

This audio set could be useful in the future for any kind of public debate
where arguments versus pseudoskepticism will be needed. In this release I've
made 2 versions of audios (one version for Broadband users and another for
Dial up users):

Audios Download Link (high quality version for broadband users):
http://tinyurl.com/7xtbqr8
(25mb)

Audios Download link (version for dial up users):
http://tinyurl.com/7a39qnu
(4mb)

Excellent companion piece by Don Ecker with audio too:
http://tinyurl.com/82nok8n

AUDIO GUIDE IS AT THE END OF THIS POST.

DESCRIPTION OF THE AUDIO SET:
As you start to think that there couldn't be anything new within history of
pseudoskepticism (I equally respect skepticism as any other objective
research but pseudoskepticsm is a completely separate beast), uninvited
demons of the past arrived again.

On January 29, 2012, Travis Walton was a guest on Coast to Coast, and the
host was George Knapp. I was reading some comments over the internet, but I
still couldn't found that anyone has mentioned the most important part of
the show from my perspective. The most exclusive part of the interview was
rare appearance of Steve Pierce and John Goulette, Travis' companions who
witnessed UFO incident in 1975. Mostly, in the past, Travis was interviewed
together with Mike Rogers, so it was refreshing to hear statements from
other participants.

During the 4-hour interview, Pierce produced a bombshell. He stated that
Philip Klass offered him $10,000 bribe to say that the event was a hoax
(check audio number 4 from the download link on the top of this post).

Recap of the show is available here:
http://tinyurl.com/7karbhg

Has this info about the bribe been in the public domain so far?

There is no need for a special introduction of infamous Phil Klass, one of
the founders of CSICOP. CSICOP is now active with a new name - CFI - which
is a legal successor. I still remember "Strange Days Indeed" - episode of
the radio show back in September 2005, when Richard Dolan talked about the
discovery of the Phil Klass letter (check audio number 3 from the download
link at the top of this post). More on it here:
http://tinyurl.com/3w4bp7y

At the time, I was shocked with the specific style of the letter, although
I've been aware about methods that Klass used. Just to mention other
problems that he caused to Dr. James McDonald and Professor Robert Jacobs.
(More on it here:
http://tinyurl.com/67ppqpp
Reference about an interesting connection between Phil Klass and admiral
Bobby Inman is available here:
http://tinyurl.com/7propxw

Because of Klass letters, professor Robert Jacobs even get fired from
University of Maine (check audio clip number 2 from the download link at the
top of this post).

Anyway, implication about Klass' bribe of $10000 is obvious. This latest
revelation should be noted as additional argument versus the integrity of
institutional continuity of CFI. I hope that you will find it useful. If a
similar affair was discovered about some first-class UFO researcher, the
field would be dragged through the mud for years.

GUIDE FOR THE AUDIO FILES THAT YOU WILL GET AFTER THE DOWNLOAD:

1. INTRO - PHIL KLASS INTERVIEWED ON VOICE OF AMERICA - January 01, 1978
(Good introduction to his philosophy of debunking - credits to Faded Discs -
my extraction from the 30-minute show)

2. STRANGE DAYS INDEED - INTERVIEW WITH PROFESSOR ROBERT JACOBS - May 4th,
2002 - source here: http://tinyurl.com/78fvph5
Jacobs recalls how he lost his job at University of Maine because of Klass.

3. STRANGE DAYS INDEED - INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD DOLAN - September 24, 2005 -
source here: http://tinyurl.com/84g34qf
Richard Dolan comments the discovery of Phil Klass Letter

4. COAST TO COAST - INTERVIEW WITH STEVE PIERCE - January 29, 2012
Steve Pierce recalls how Phil Klass offered him $10000 to proclaim a Travis
Walton case as a hoax.

5. COAST TO COAST - INTERVIEW WITH TRAVIS WALTON - January 29, 2012
Travis Walton recounts aftermath of the case, disinformation and Phil Klass'
attacks.

Compiled & Edited by:
Giuliano Marinkovic

[newyorklily]

This is very disturbing. It shows to what lengths someone will go to in order to keep these things quiet. And still, no one is showing any outrage over this.

[Doc]

I was surprised when Klass was first exposed as a thoroughly dishonest rat, there wasn't all that much outgrage then, either. I wasn't following this field that closely back then but I do remember it. I had thought Klass was more than just an unreasonable debunker. When he turned out to be much worse than that I thought more would be said. Maybe someone else remembers more. Regardless, this is big news. Klass had been a very influential (if fake) skeptic for years and was the media's favorite "Go-to-Guy" to make any story ridiculous.

[Lee]

You have to wonder what would motivate somebody like Phil Klass to offer up such a large sum of money. Attempting to bribe a witness to lie about their experience strikes me as extremely desperate.

The download links don't work for me though, it says the file has been removed.

[Lee]

Here's the show, on youtube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eex8fwjlcJo&feature=player_embedded

[Doc]

Good find, Lee! :thumbup:


This is the hot story in The Community today. Emails flying every which way. There is probably some more to come about the reaction, or lack thereof, to Klass being unmasked.

[Doc]

You have to wonder what would motivate somebody like Phil Klass to offer up such a large sum of money. Attempting to bribe a witness to lie about their experience strikes me as extremely desperate.

The download links don't work for me though, it says the file has been removed.

I think Phil Klass was offering ten thousand of someone else's money. Doesn't this at least suggest he was being bankrolled to debunk? Most of the UFO 'experts' of the day never had $10K in their hands at once unless they were buying a home.

[newyorklily]

I heard somewhere that the FBI agent (I can't remember his name right now) had been seen in the area before the incident with Walton took place.
I also found it interesting that Travis said in the C2C interview that he had trouble breathing on the ship. This was the first I remember hearing that (I've only seen the movie a long time ago, I have never read the book). Then Travis tells about a human looking being in a space suit with helmet. Could this have been another human who had trouble breathing the air? This certainly would have warranted spending a great deal of money to get someone to discredit Travis and the event. $10,000 was worth a lot more in the 1970s than it does now. It could have maintained a possible cover-up of humans working with the aliens.

[Chris]

I was surprised when Klass was first exposed as a thoroughly dishonest rat, there wasn't all that much outgrage then, either. I wasn't following this field that closely back then but I do remember it. I had thought Klass was more than just an unreasonable debunker. When he turned out to be much worse than that I thought more would be said. Maybe someone else remembers more. Regardless, this is big news. Klass had been a very influential (if fake) skeptic for years and was the media's favorite "Go-to-Guy" to make any story ridiculous.
I wasn't surprised by his "outing" as I never trusted him to be the self-proclaimed skeptic he portrayed himself as. I always figured that there was a bankroll behind him or that he had been hired to play this particular role.

Reminds me of several other "skeptics" and "debunkers" out there today who have no discernible source of income yet have all of the time in the world to pursue the "S&D" role.

[Doc]

Richard Dolan was writing about Government use of journalists back in 2005: In his "Government Lies and UFOs" he did a wide-ranging analysis of government deception regarding UFOs and such diverse topics as the Iraq war and the FOIA being gutted by Ronald Reagan, which I never heard before.


"The lies and coverup regarding UFO phenomena by the American national security state is nothing new. Indeed, it is simply standard operating procedure. Our leaders lie about everything important, including UFOs. "


"Back in 1977, journalist Carl Bernstein revealed that the CIA had used more than 400 journalists to carry out assignments over the past quarter of a century. This included but was not limited to planting disinformation and propaganda. These were covert, paid arrangements which helped many a journalistic career. Today, the CIA blandly says, in effect, "we don’t do that anymore." To which the appropriate response is "B.S." Not only does the CIA have cozy working relationships with journalists around the world (and certainly the Internet), but why would one think the rest of the American national security establishment doesn’t? Can anyone seriously believe otherwise?"

http://keyholepublishing.com/Government_lies_and_ufos.htm

[Doc]

(continued)
It was Richard Dolan who found the infamous Phil Klass letter in which Klass tried to poison the well with Stanton Friedman's new employers at the Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics in Canada by writing, uninvited, seemingly every negative thing he could think of about Friedman. On October 18, 2005 Dolan announced that he discovered the letter in a file he was given at the Canadian National Archives during an unrelated research project.

http://keyholepublishing.com/New Klass Letter Found.htm

The letter is a near masterpiece of interpersonal poison and a great example of the Politics of Personal Destruction.

http://keyholepublishing.com/Klass.NRC.letter.1980.jpg (http://keyholepublishing.com/Klass.NRC.letter.1980.jpg)

[newyorklily]

Awesome find, Doc! :thumbup:

[Doc]

Awesome find, Doc! :thumbup:

Thanks! Giuliano Marinkovic linked the thread. I just tracked back to its origins. The discussion of Klass at UFO Updates in 2005 is very interesting, not in the least for how easy much of the UFO Community in the day went on Klass and how scrupulous they were not to falsely accuse the man of being dishonest, which I don't think he would have done for any of them. I think maybe they were missing their old enemy and preserving his memory as a worthy adversary, which to me he never seemed to be.

[Doc]

From Victor Martinez: Here's more insider info on the Walton-Klass case for your forum that was just sent to me by Travis himself. YES: It was me who sent the original e-mail to Evelyn Gordon at the "Sky Ships Over" Website. 2,300+ recipients means something! Hope you guys enjoyed the
"RIVERS" photo stream!

(In chronological order)



--- Original Message ----- From: Evelyn Gordon (skyshipsovercashiersnc@yahoo.com)
To: Travis Walton (travis@travis-walton.com)
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 6:57 AM
Subject: Travis, just for you


Travis, we received the following in an email from someone who views the Sky Ships over Cashiers website.
We don't want to post any false information, so can you confirm the following to be true.? If so, do you want to elaborate on it?
If it's true, we'll post it along with information about your book.

Thank you for your time,

Mary Joyce, Editor
www.skyshipsovercashiers.com (http://www.skyshipsovercashiers.com/)
www.skyshipsovercashiersnc@yahoo.com (http://www.skyshipsovercashiersnc@yahoo.com/)


BRIBE BOMBSHELL! STEVE PIERCE WHO WAS WITH TRAVIS WALTON WHEN HE WAS
ABDUCTED CLAIMS THAT HE WAS OFFERED A $10,000 BRIBE FORM THE LATE
DEBUNKER PHIL KLASS TO STATE THAT THE ENTIRE TRAVIS WALTON ALIEN
ABDUCTION CLAIM WAS A HOAX!

WHY WOULD KLASS OFFER SUCH A BRIBE SINCE HE BELIEVED ALL "ALIEN
ABDUCTION" CASES WERE "CLEARLY HOAXES" UNLESS THE WALTON EVIDENCE WAS SO
STRONG THAT IT SUGGESTED OTHERWISE?!

(Continued)

[Doc]

Evelyn, Yes, it is true. I even mentioned this in the1996 edition of my book. But all I knew then was that Deputy Click had taken Steve the message when Steve still lived in this area. I didn't know then that Klass had also flown to Texas and spent hours taking Steve out to dinner and trying get him to accept the bribe. And followed Steve to another state or two. Very curious, since in my first edition I had criticized Klass for being "an armchair investigator" who, unlike Dr J. Allen Hynek, the Lorenzens and Stanton Friedman, had never personally contacted anyone involved nor ever bothered to visit the site. But then I met someone at the 2011 IUFOC who ruefully admitted to having picked Klass up at the Phoenix airport and drove him the 180 miles to the site of the incident near Heber. A very expensive "hobby", yet I never saw in any of Klass's books or "whitepapers" where he even once mentioned these costly "field excursions" to rebut my "armchair investigator" charge. And Klass was famous for tape recording everything. After his death all his papers went into the Philosophical society's archives. I wonder if any mention of this or tapes of it are there?

All this strongly supports the belief that Klass was a paid government disinformationist. Compounding this are the FBI files I possess that someone obtained under the FOIA. In these papers are documents citing repeated investigations of Klass by the FBI for revealing classified information in his articles in Aviation Week & Space Technology, in letters he sent out, and even checking to see if he had "obtained any kind of licensing for radio transmitting equipment" one would surmise, to pass info on to our enemies. The FBI decided to hold off on prosecuting Klass and keep the matter in "RUC status", supposedly because this would involve further exposing the sensitive information in open court. But I seriously doubt that is why they held off, because that argument would preclude ever prosecuting anyone for espionage or revealing classified information, as we are well aware many others have been.

However, Klass was no friend of the FBI. He had derisively attacked the agency publicly for discussing the use of psychics in criminal investigations and for publishing an article titled "The UFO Mystery" by astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek in their internal publication. Klass's FBI file includes this comment, "Bufile 62-116443, Serial 7, states that "in view of Klass' intemperate criticisms and often irrational statements he made to support them, it was recommended that the Bureau be most circumspect in any future contacts with him" One hint about the possible nature of "future contacts with him" might be in what was hidden by the redaction in this next quotation from Klass's FBI file. "Bufiles discloses that Klass has, from time to time, come to our attention by virtue of the fact that he has been in... (9 LINE REDACT!) ...this Bureau (partial line redact) and not to be of assistance to his government."


This "assistance to his government" was not likely acting on behalf of the FBI because they evidently didn't like him at all. The real smoking gun in this matter might be the November 9, 1964 memo, previously stamped "SECRET", from John Edgar Hoover (I never knew what the the "J" in J. Edgar Hoover stood for) to Director Central Intelligence Agency. Subject: PHILIP J. KLASS

It looks to me like the matter was turned over to the CIA, and then possibly some agency beyond them. This seems to suggest that the threat of prosecution for those classified leaks could be used as leverage to gain cooperation in being "of assistance to his government."

More bombshells to follow in a future final edition of my book FIRE IN THE SKY.

Travis Walton

[Lee]

Here's the FBI file Travis references above: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/Klass_FBI.pdf

[newyorklily]

Here's the FBI file Travis references above: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/Klass_FBI.pdf

Wow! Thank you, Lee. That was really eye-opening.

[uforadio]

And there is another detail that gives almost sarcastic tone to the whole story.

While Klass was ready to go this far to offer $10.000 to Steve if he declares the case as a hoax, in the same time he was publicly offering exactly the identical sum of money if someone brings proof of abductions. Amazing. How many bizarre layers this guy has. And I thought that spy novels were interesting that much :)

In the text below (by the way I have that documentary in my archive) interview with Klass:

For the whole piece click on the link:
Source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/philipklass.html

KLASS: I have gone into my lifetime savings, and offer to pay 10 thousand dollars to any person who believes they've been abducted, to report it to the FBI. Let the FBI investigate it. If the FBI comes back and says, 'We believe this person's story,' I will then go into my life savings and present this check for 10 thousand dollars to that person. And thereby, we will have alerted our federal government.

And another bonus :)

Small glimpse from my archives that I just uploaded on the link below – reminder of the old days of Larry King :)

Randle vs Klass
Date of Broadcast: June 28, 1997
Title: Roswell Revisited
Source: VHS Recording


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhvgKcNTxp4

[Doc]

---- Original Message ----- From: Evelyn Gordon (skyshipsovercashiersnc@yahoo.com)
To: Travis Walton (travis@travis-walton.com)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:19 AM
Subject: Travis, do I have this right?


Travis, I haven't changed anything in your story except at the end where I've eliminated the heavily redacted paragraph because it's difficult to follow, and rewrote the MEMO information. I especially need you to read the paragraph in larger type to see if I'm understanding it correctly. You're free to rewrite it. Might it be correct to say they used the threat of prosecution to get Klass to serve as a disinformation agent for the government or CIA?
Thanks again - Mary


---------------------


Klass was no friend of the FBI. He had derisively attacked the agency publicly for discussing the use of psychics in criminal investigations and for publishing an article titled "The UFO Mystery" by astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek in their internal publication.

Klass's FBI file (Bufile 62-116443, Serial 7) states that:

In view of Klass' intemperate criticisms and often irrational statements he made to support them, it was recommended that the Bureau be most circumspect in any future contacts with him."


The real smoking gun in this matter, however, might be the November 9, 1964 memo previously stamped “SECRET,” from J. Edgar Hoover to the Director of the CIA. In it Hoover said it looked like the Philip J. Klass matter was turned over to the CIA and then possibly some agency beyond that, and that a threat of prosecution over classified leaks might have been used as leverage to gain Klass’ cooperation.


More bombshells to follow in a future final edition of my book “Fire in the Sky.” – Travis Walton


EDITOR’S NOTE:The most recent edition (2010) of Travis Walton’s book about his abduction,“Fire in the Sky,”is only available through his website. He cautions that other sources are selling overpriced 1996 editions. A date for his final edition is not yet known because new material continues to come in.

From: Travis Walton (traviswalton@cableone.net)
To: Evelyn Gordon (skyshipsovercashiersnc@yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Travis, do I have this right?


Evelyn, The following explanation is probably of no use to you since it is far too lengthy for the brief simplified summaries you need. But perhaps it may clarify the meaning of my earlier response.

No , the rewording in your last paragraph still is not right. Just as I have done in my book I wish to separate the facts from any theories or conclusions I personally make about them. OF COURSE any discussion of how to leverage the withheld prosecution in order to gain coperation would not be included in the un-redacted parts of the memo. OF COURSE they aren't going to release the files with such admissions of impropriety on their part left unredacted.

{In past FOIA releases they used big solid black rectangles to cover the withheld portions. Now they use white boxes with a thin black line of an outline. Perhaps this practice was changed to conserve toner or make it look less starkly like they are withholding so much.}

There are two entire paragraphs redacted from the first page of the memo and other pages are so heavily redacted that on some pages little remains, making it hard to completely decipher. After 911 there was much discussion of longstanding noncooperation between the FBI and CIA and other agencies. So ANY memo from the FBI to the CIA is noteworthy, especially Director to Director. The significance of the memo is that the sole subject was Philip Klass, his security breeches and the FBI's decision not to pursue prosecution or further investigation.

So I ask, if the matter was closed, why report all the details to the CIA? The "...not to be of service to his government..." line I excerpted from the end of a large redaction from another document in the file supports MY OWN conclusion that such a scenario would provide the perfect circumstances under which cooperation as a disinformationist might be "persuaded." To me the implication of these points is clear, but it is NOT flatly stated in these files. However, this scenario would be entirely consistent with methods of recruitment known to be commonly employed by these agencies.

If there is still confusion about this perhaps it would be better to not even mention the FOIA files. Better to be confident in our accuracy than to condense it in a way that might create any unnecessary misconceptions. I really appreciate your diligence in fact-checking by having me review your distillation prior to putting it out there. I commend this as a very responsible approach. -- Travis

[mrwupy]

I know this is a serious discussion but sometimes a little levity can help everyone relax and get a better perspective. I interviewed Travis Waltons crazy cousin Don who claims they were coming after him when they got Travis by mistake. Hope you enjoy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Vp2Sw2XPM

[Doc]

That is something else! How did you get to do that?

[mrwupy]

He was selling his book at the Ozark UFO Conference and I stopped by his booth. I love UFO conferences simply because of the people you get to meet.

[Chris]

I know this is a serious discussion but sometimes a little levity can help everyone relax and get a better perspective. I interviewed Travis Waltons crazy cousin Don who claims they were coming after him when they got Travis by mistake. Hope you enjoy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Vp2Sw2XPM

Every family has someone like that. And if you don't think your family does then you really need to closely in the mirror! ;)

[uforadio]

Klass' bribe saga continues:



Source: http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/12797/klass-act-no-principles/?tc=ar



De Void
Klass act, no principles
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 11:15 by Billy Cox

A blast from the past animated the blogosphere earlier this month when a buddy of famed “Fire in the Sky” UFO abductee Travis Walton accused a dead debunker of attempted bribery. Steve Pierce said he — Pierce — had been offered $10k to say Walton had hoaxed the whole thing back in 1975.

De Void has no insight into this moot and meaningless kerfuffle. But De Void knew Phil Klass, the target of the allegation. Or rather, De Void talked to Klass on a number of occasions, because Klass was always the go-to guy journos contacted whenever they drew the short straw and had to write about UFOs. He seemed the logical choice. As senior editor for Aviation Week & Space Technology, Klass was Mr. Insider, the establishment’s sensible “reality check” authority you could always count on for “balance.” Klass never met a UFO he couldn’t explain, and he made it his life’s calling to reassure the Fourth Estate they were wasting their time, that they’d be better served chasing rocs and griffins.

(more at link…)

[newyorklily]

Klass' bribe saga continues:



Source: http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/12797/klass-act-no-principles/?tc=ar



De Void
Klass act, no principles
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 11:15 by Billy Cox

A blast from the past animated the blogosphere earlier this month when a buddy of famed “Fire in the Sky” UFO abductee Travis Walton accused a dead debunker of attempted bribery. Steve Pierce said he — Pierce — had been offered $10k to say Walton had hoaxed the whole thing back in 1975.

De Void has no insight into this moot and meaningless kerfuffle. But De Void knew Phil Klass, the target of the allegation. Or rather, De Void talked to Klass on a number of occasions, because Klass was always the go-to guy journos contacted whenever they drew the short straw and had to write about UFOs. He seemed the logical choice. As senior editor for Aviation Week & Space Technology, Klass was Mr. Insider, the establishment’s sensible “reality check” authority you could always count on for “balance.” Klass never met a UFO he couldn’t explain, and he made it his life’s calling to reassure the Fourth Estate they were wasting their time, that they’d be better served chasing rocs and griffins.

(more at link…)

Thank you for that, uforadio. Phil Klass was some piece of work. I think it is safe to say that Klass had no class.

BTW, I didn't edit your post, I hit the wrong button. Sorry about that.

[uforadio]

newyorklily, no probs, don't worry about it :)
Best Wishes.

[uforadio]

New updates. Robert Sheaffer replied about allegations of Phill Klass' 10.000 $ bribe.

And here is the PUNCH LINE. Sheaffer states that (in red):

the accusation does not come from Pierce, but instead from Mike Rogers, Travis' best friend, and future brother-in-law.
- end of quote -

The point here is that PIERCE INDEED has confirmed this personally so it is a first-hand allegation. Pierce talked about it on COAST TO COAST SHOW from January 29th. Probably, Sheaffer hasn't followed the whole buzz with much detail or hasn't read post in whole.

Of course, other arguments that Sheaffer writes about Pierce should be pointed directly to Pierce. I bet it would be interesting to hear his side of the story too.

So the Saga continues :)

Here is the article link:

Source: http://badufos.blogspot.com/2012/02/travis-walton-vs-philip-j-klass.html

Travis Walton vs. Philip J. Klass
One of the best-known UFO abduction stories is that of Travis Walton. He claims that on Nov. 5, 1975, as he and six others were returning from a day's work cutting logs in Arizona's Sitgreaves National Forest, he was zapped by a beam of light from the UFO, and taken aboard the craft for five days. His story won $5,000 as the Best UFO Case for 1975 from the National Enquirer, has been the subject of several books, as well as the Hollywood movie Fire in the Sky (1993).

(more at link...)

[Lee]

I see that Robert Sheaffer was kind enough to include a link to this thread in his article. :cool:

[Doc]

George Knapp Responds:


"The allegations made by Steve Pierce during our C2C interview were specific and credible, Mike Rogers was not mentioned whatsoever during that part of the interview, so if Rogers has his own seperate account of Klass offering a bribe, it means the crafty old buzzard may have offered cash to more than one member of the logging crew. It would make sense that Klass might go after more than one, especially since the men he allegedly tempted turned him down flat.


Somehow, I think dearly departed Phil would appreciate the effort by his fellow debunker to use false and misleading infomation as a way to muddy the waters, since it is a technique Mr Klass perfected during his lifetime."



One of The Debunkers' more common techniques (also used in politics) is to throw any available explanation out there immediately and worry about if it is accurate later. The strategy is to det the idea before the public that the case is readily explained, never mind if it is hogwash. any explanation plants the seed that the allegation, accusation, claim or assertion has already been explained away.

[uforadio]

Kevin Randle joins the debate about Phil Klass' bribe with his blog post.

Also Billy Cox was a guest on Eckers' Dark Matters Radio---subject…hist recent article on Phil Klass.
Info about a show here:
http://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/tonight-on-dmr-mr-billy-cox.9921/
You can listen episode with Billy here:
http://www.dqrm.com/programs.php
(Scroll to Thursday, and then press play button at „DARK MATTERS RADIO“ in „THIS WEEK“ column.

And now Randle's post:

Source: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2012/02/billy-cox-and-philip-klass.html

Friday, February 24, 2012
Billy Cox and Philip Klass
Billy Cox, over at the Herald-Tribune has written a short piece called, “Klass act, no principles,” (see http://tinyurl.com/8793hjt). In it he suggests that Steve Pierce, a buddy of Travis Walton, he of Fire in the Sky and abduction fame (see here at the 2011 Roswell Festival), had been offered, by Klass, ten thousand dollars to say that they had hoaxed the whole thing.

My first reaction was to reject this idea because, even for Klass, it seemed a bit excessive. And then I thought back to the long article I had posted here about Klass and his attacks on witnesses and researchers and his attempts to make their lives miserable. For a full analysis, see my September 11, 2011 blog entry about Klass’ letter writing campaign.

(more at link...)

[Doc]

Kevin Randle also engages in some back and forth with commenters at his blog. Some are still defending Klass, or more particularly, the weakness of teh evidence against Klass in their opinion. Funny, no considerations ever seem to stop Klass from firing accusations and condemnation at anyone who disagreed with his point of view. The bigger question to me is how Klass got away with his crap for so long. Why did he get a pass from his public opponents? Was he that valuable as an adversary?


http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2012/02/billy-cox-and-philip-klass.html

[uforadio]

Latest piece from Randle:

Source: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2012/03/philip-klass-travis-walton-and-steve.html

Saturday, March 03, 2012
Philip Klass, Travis Walton and Steve Pierce, Part Two
Once again Philip Klass has stirred controversy and he didn’t even have to do anything himself. All of this started, for me, with a column by Billy Cox in which he mentioned the story that Klass had offered Steve Pierce, one of the witnesses of the Travis Walton abduction, ten thousand dollars to say the case was a hoax.

Some have been angry at me for accepting the story. As I mentioned then, my first reaction was to reject it, but then I remembered some of the other things that Klass (seen here with his fans) had done in his efforts to debunk everything UFOlogical (yes, it is hyperbole, but what the heck, it’s not the first time that one side or the other has engaged in hyperbole).

I took a stroll over to “Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and the Universe” hosted by Robert Sheaffer so that I might read the other side’s take on this (though saying the other side here is something of a misnomer since I’m not a big fan of tales of alien abduction).

<snip>

More at link...

[uforadio]

Tim Printy shortly comments the affair in his latest SUNlite issue that can be downloaded here:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/SUNlite4_2.pdf

Comment is at the bottom of page 2 in the section "Who's Blogging UFOs?"

[Gemeos]

I don't know if any of you saw this. I saw it on TV.
Video with Portuguese subtitles. In my view he was framed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gwYYeUGFGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFNNIv83dfQ

[Doc]

Latest piece from Randle:

Source: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2012/03/philip-klass-travis-walton-and-steve.html

Saturday, March 03, 2012
Philip Klass, Travis Walton and Steve Pierce, Part Two
Once again Philip Klass has stirred controversy and he didn’t even have to do anything himself. All of this started, for me, with a column by Billy Cox in which he mentioned the story that Klass had offered Steve Pierce, one of the witnesses of the Travis Walton abduction, ten thousand dollars to say the case was a hoax.

Some have been angry at me for accepting the story. As I mentioned then, my first reaction was to reject it, but then I remembered some of the other things that Klass (seen here with his fans) had done in his efforts to debunk everything UFOlogical (yes, it is hyperbole, but what the heck, it’s not the first time that one side or the other has engaged in hyperbole).

I took a stroll over to “Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and the Universe” hosted by Robert Sheaffer so that I might read the other side’s take on this (though saying the other side here is something of a misnomer since I’m not a big fan of tales of alien abduction).

<snip>

More at link...

Kevin Randle is a decent guy and an honest researcher, I believe, so I expect he would try to see all sides of an issue. I always thought the UFO researchers were too easy on Klass while he was alive while Klass never cut anyone the slightest bit of slack. Good men disagreed with Klass. Klass slandered them in return. I've known some real lice in my time but I reserve a special contempt for anyone who would write a letter to someone's new employer to try to damage his ability to make a living. People can be wrong without being charlatans and snake oil salesmen. Somehow Klass the brilliant debunker failed to make that distinction.

The bottom line for me in this case is that this is not a rumor. This is an accusation by a witness that a bribe attempt was made on more than one occasion by Klass or someone acting on his behalf. Anyone who has a problem with that should attempt to disprove or debunk the accusation. Just don't try to talk to me about besmirching a fine fellow like Klass. He showed exactly who and what he was over the years.

[uforadio]

<snip>

The bottom line for me in this case is that this is not a rumor. This is an accusation by a witness that a bribe attempt was made on more than one occasion by Klass or someone acting on his behalf.

<snip>



I am having the same impression that everyone is talking about some "strange rumor". Reading all those internet articles and their debates, it sounds that noone actually followed the latest moment and listened the audios in question - at least I am having that impression. I do agree with Doc. The point here is that the whole story is not a second hand story any more that was made via Mike Rogers or Walton. The point here is that the statement was made by the 3rd witness himself directly - it is not a retelling by Rogers or Walton this time. Of course, we can't be for sure here what is the objective truth in the final analysis, but there is a valid reason why new disccusions were started about the alleged affair. It would be interested to hear Pierce's reaction to those latest articles.

[uforadio]

Steve Pierce and Travis Walton at International UFO Congress:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwd_c_XusEg&feature=relmfu
From 2,43 minute mark. Klass is briefly mentioned around 3,47 minute (no reference to alleged bribe).

And another podcast show (Kate Valentine UFO Show) with Pierce and Walton available for download here (Klass alleged affair is not mentioned during the interview but I am providing link to audio anyway for archival purposes:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheKateValentineUfoShow/~5/b6wBadE2u_A/11-11-11.mp3

Kate with Pat Marcattilio,Travis Walton and Steve Pierce
Posted: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:55:49 -0500
Pat Marcattilio, Pat had his first UFO sighting 1963 and has been a UFO buff ever since. Pat hosts the New Jersey / Pennsylvania / Hamilton UFO Study Group which has been running continuously for 18 years. Actually, the name of the group is longer than some of the meetings.
Plus Surprise on air guests abductee Travis Walton and witness Steve Pierce.

[uforadio]

Robert Sheaffer strikes back:

Source: http://badufos.blogspot.com/2012/02/skeptic-at-2012-international-ufo_24.html

<snip>

Travis made a big thing about the accusation that Philip J. Klass had offered Steve a bribe of $10,000 to say that the 'abduction' was a hoax, that I recently wrote about. That accusation originated with Travis' pal Mike Rogers back in 1978. When Klass read the book where that claim was made, he phoned Pierce, who told him that he thought the abduction was a hoax, but he could not prove it. Klass recorded this phone interview, as he did every significant interview, and later sent a copy to Karl Pflock upon request. Pflock quoted other comments made by Pierce suggesting a hoax. But that was not Steve's story today: absolutely yes, Klass tried to bribe me. He flew out to Texas to wine and dine me and try to persuade me. He kept following me, I had to move to like three different states, to get away from him. Of course, there is no proof that this 'new version' of Pierce's story is correct, no photos of Klass and Pierce together, no documents of any kind to back up this implausible tale.

<snip>

more at link...

[Chris]

I have responded in that email string with the following:


Robert Scheaffer follows the debunker's guide book as established by Phillip Klass - mischaracterization, distortion and outright lies - in order to support an otherwise untenable position in the debate.

Case in point - Steve Pierce never states that he had to move to three different states to get away from Klass. Pierce's actual statement about moving around was an answer to a question concerning the pressure and attention placed on the three of them by the local media and people. Pierce goes on to say that he tried everything to avoid the unwanted attention including hiding and telling people that it was all made up - just so they would leave him alone. When then didn't work he moved away to avoid it all.


Now that's an entirely different picture from what one would be led to believe from the disjointed quotes leading to an erroneous conclusion, isn't it. If one is doing so deliberately, then doesn't that constitute lying???

[Doc]

What motivates people still defending Klass? I can't believe it is respect for the deceased. It is more likely that by defending the person some people are making sure that Klass' debunkings are perpetuated and kept useful. They also appear to want to preserve general approval for Klass' methods by not allowing his record to be fully examined and by changing the subject from Klass' abuses to the merits of the Travis Walton Case.

This is all too familiar. Somehow, a "silly little hoax" attracts all of the big guns of debunking and usually a couple of Government employees as well. Then we are told it is of no significance. Then why all the attention?

[Chris]

Well put, Doc.

There are documents to support the contention of Klass being supported by the government (see Stanton Freidman's move to Canada and Klass' involvement to discredit him). So I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that those who are carrying his torch are doing so "professionally" - that is to say they are being paid to do so.

Healthy skepticism is always welcome but that does not include having a conclusion as the starting point and making the facts fit that predetermined outcome.

[Marvin]

Where is Klass getting the money to "influence" these people?


A wise person once said, if you want to know what is behind something… follow the money.


M

[uforadio]

Latest bribe reference:

Source: http://www.openminds.tv/video-travis-walton-and-witnesses-to-his-alien-abduction-speak-about-the-event-921/

Video: Travis Walton and witnesses to his alien abduction speak about the event

For more than 36 years, the Travis Walton abduction story has been told countless times through film, print and presentations. His story has captivated an entire community of researchers and UFO enthusiasts. Now two eyewitnesses who were present the night of the abduction, are stepping forward to tell their side of the story.

<snip>

Steve Pierce was pressured repeatedly by UFO skeptic Phil Klass to take a bribe and say the whole incident was a hoax. After showing the film made about the event to his daughter, she encouraged him to come forward with his story.

<snip>

The rest of the article and video at the link...

[uforadio]

Story is resurrected again :)

Source 1: http://badufos.blogspot.com/2012/04/archive-documents-show-klass-did-not.html
Source 2: http://www.debunker.com/historical/APS_Files_Walton.PDF

Archive Documents Show Klass Did NOT Try to Bribe Travis Walton Witness
Just this year, supposed UFO Abductee Travis Walton ("Fire in the Sky") revived an old claim that Klass offered Steve Pierce $10,000 to lie and say that the Walton abduction story is a hoax. Many people accepted the accusation as true. The arch-skeptic Klass was not exactly a popular figure in UFOlogy!

I investigated these claims in my Blog posting of February 13, "Travis Walton vs. Philip J. Klass," and found them unfounded. Klass mentions these charges in his 1983 book UFOs The Public Deceived (p. 221). Those accusations at the time did not come from Steve Pierce, but instead from Mike Rogers, Travis Walton's best friend. And Klass had never spoken to Pierce at all or communicated in any way until he read about the bribery accusations in Bill Barry's 1978 book about Travis Walton, Ultimate Encounter.

(more at link...)

[Doc]

"Hoax" by proclamation. Klass would be proud.

[uforadio]

Article is already posted above but this is direct link to the video:

Pierce comments affair again from 5,50 minute mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6n7tG08WLM

[Free]

That is mainly because most people do not really believe abductee's stories in the first place or they are afraid to think and find facts.

[Free]

Travis is the same age as me. I met and talked with him privately about 15 years ago. I asked him why he did not go under hypnosis to see what else he could learn about what happened.
He responded very nervously that that was a box in the corner of a room he knew was there but he did not want to open up.
My feeling was that he believed he had this experience and I did not observe he was well educated or clever enough to make up such a detailed story. This is my opinion.

[Doc]

Travis is the same age as me. I met and talked with him privately about 15 years ago. I asked him why he did not go under hypnosis to see what else he could learn about what happened.
He responded very nervously that that was a box in the corner of a room he knew was there but he did not want to open up.
My feeling was that he believed he had this experience and I did not observe he was well educated or clever enough to make up such a detailed story. This is my opinion.

Thank you for that. I would love to hear any other details of your meeting with Travis Walton.

In my experience, victims of serious trauma have said pretty much the same thing when hypnotherapy was suggested to them so I take his statement as evidence that he is genuine in his beliefs about those events.

[uforadio]

New part of the Steve Pierce series:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0HFf18PoTc&feature=player_embedded

[uforadio]

Howard Blum vs Phil Klass
with Frank Drake and Don Schmitt
December 5th, 1990


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQytq83f_WI&feature=player_embedded#!

[majicbar]

Thank you for that. I would love to hear any other details of your meeting with Travis Walton.

In my experience, victims of serious trauma have said pretty much the same thing when hypnotherapy was suggested to them so I take his statement as evidence that he is genuine in his beliefs about those events.

Bad hypnotherapy can induce victims with false memories, so I'm glad that Travis does not want to go this route. It is like the "hypnotherapy" recovery given to the witnesses of the Rendlesham incident, I'm sure the AFOSI intentionally planted false memories in Penniston and Boroughs to obscure what really happened. Unless those who do hypnotherapy are very careful those traces of repressed memories which remain can be forever damaged and testimony recovered will no longer trustworthy as genuine information.

[Doc]

Bad hypnotherapy can induce victims with false memories, so I'm glad that Travis does not want to go this route. It is like the "hypnotherapy" recovery given to the witnesses of the Rendlesham incident, I'm sure the AFOSI intentionally planted false memories in Penniston and Boroughs to obscure what really happened. Unless those who do hypnotherapy are very careful those traces of repressed memories which remain can be forever damaged and testimony recovered will no longer trustworthy as genuine information.

Actually, no matter how careful the hypnotist is, he or she can't avoid suggestions that potentially may damage real memories the way you describe. That is what makes the whole effort almost worthless for legal or UFOlogical purposes.

[uforadio]

Latest update at Kevin Randle's blog:

Source: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.ca/2012/07/steve-pierce-and-travis-walton.html

Saturday, July 28, 2012
Steve Pierce and Travis Walton
Several months ago the story that Philip Klass had attempted to bribe one of the witnesses to the Travis Walton abduction made its rounds. I took a somewhat middle of the road stance, suggesting that I could believe that Klass might attempt something like that, but that the evidence for it was rather thin. I now have additional information.

There were, in essence, two people who know the truth about this. One, Philip Klass is dead and the other, Steve Pierce had not been readily available for comment. However, on July 1, 2012, at the Roswell UFO Festival, I had the chance to sit down with Steve and get his side of the story. What follows is what he told me then.

--- read the rest of the post at site ---

Check up debate in the comments too.

[uforadio]

Latest issue of eSkeptic devoted to Travis Walton case (the same newsletter where authors debated and debated over Leslie Kean's book few months ago):

Travis Walton’s Alien Abduction
Lie Detection Test
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-08-15/

More at link

[uforadio]

Latest issue of eSkeptic published Walton's reaction to Shermer's previous article:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-08-22/

[Dragonfire]

I think if Shermer was obducted and taken to another planet, lost 5 hr's of his life, he would still find some explanation as to why it didn't happen.

[Flying Tiger Comics]

I tried reading it but it was impossible to get through. The juvenile tone and silly mastheads didn't help either. It's the same with all the Forteana hijackers- none of the words they use have their normal meaning, beginning with the ultimate portmanteau word of the disingenuous and fixated... Skeptic...