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Doc
03-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Who were the first Americans?

An established theory says the first Americans walked across the Bering Sea about 13,000-15,000 years ago. But stone tools found in the mid-Atlantic suggest an arrival from Europe about 20,000-22,000 years ago. The tools match those made by the mysterious Solutrean people of ice-age Iberia. Read related article. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/radical-theory-of-first-americans-places-stone-age-europeans-in-delmarva-20000-years-ago/2012/02/28/gIQA4mriiR_story.html)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rw/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/03/01/Health-Environment-Science/Graphics/w-chesapeake.jpg
Source: Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley. The Washington Post. Published on February 29, 2012, 9:37 p.m.

This is a controversy I have been following for years. When I first studied Archeology the accepted date for Early Man here was 7,000 years ago. The Archeology Establishment has resisted any effort to push that date back in spite of varied and convincing evidence. It was only after a huge struggle and lost careers that the 14,000 year date gained grudging but not universal acceptance. By way of contrast, I have dug stone tools from levels dated much earlier at a supervised site. Those artifacts are rejected by the Archeology Establishment, even though there are more than 40,000 bagged samples in the museum basement. This story is going to blow up someday. I can't want wait to see it.






http://s0.2mdn.net/dot.gif

norenrad
03-03-2012, 06:55 PM
Just in time, I am currently working on a paper that touches on this subject. Here is one of the sources I sited: http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/amerskeletons.html

It's too bad most scientists have to be so closed minded, we might actually get somewhere if they weren't. These people are supposed to have great intellect and imagination, it's a shame they choose the flat Earth approach to so many discoveries. Now, if more of them can realize that they are actually looking at old ape bones instead of human bones, we would really be getting somewhere. Some of the braver scientists are finally sticking their necks out telling us that there just isn't enough time for these bones to have changed the way the establishment proposes, that the bones they are looking at are indeed ape and not human.

Some truths seem to frighten the establishment and they will squeeze their agenda for everything it's worth. I'm still trying to figure that out, where's the advantage in it? Some kind of control? What on this mud-ball could they possibly want to hide? Proof that we are indeed created? Is that such a frightening idea?

Doc
03-03-2012, 07:12 PM
That is a great resource, norenrad, thanks for posting it. One of the reasons academic scientists are so closed minded is that the only way to make any real money and/or fame is to write a textbook that becomes a standard in your field. If your premise is that humans have only been here for 12,000 years and someone finds a cave with man made tools at strata dated to 80,000 years ago, your textbook is no good anymore and your reputation is damaged if not ruined. It is a lot better to just shoot the messenger.

norenrad
03-03-2012, 08:16 PM
... and we all bleed from that shot. It's like you said, it's easier to stay the course than to change lanes... as evidenced here in Denver. I never realized how lucky I am that I can change lanes so efficiently without having a nervous breakdown. Do you know they have traffic lights at the end of the entrance ramps to the highways here? Here we have people trying to drive the highway speed limit and there are people getting on the highway at 25 miles an hour, who's stupid idea was that?! It's said they had to do that because the Denver dummies don't know how to merge and that was causing too many accidents, what a wanker situation.

I guess it proves how knowledge and training can actually improve our lives and how "easy access" to responsibilities hinders our progress; too many untrained and irresponsible individuals running with the herd.

CasperParks
03-04-2012, 12:22 AM
Had a nice full color map years ago of human migrations, taken from an old National Geographic mag. Can't find it anywhere...

Doc
03-04-2012, 05:42 AM
446

This is the closest I can find. Is that anything like you remember?

southerncross
04-25-2012, 03:38 AM
As I recall there is a female archeologist that has worked on a site in South America and unearthed bones and artifacts that date far earlier than mainstream scientists agree on. Does anyone remember her name and the site ?

CasperParks
04-25-2012, 04:27 AM
Years ago, I had an issue of National Geographic that went into detail. Colored maps and everything, looked for it a few months ago and could not find it.

Doc
04-25-2012, 04:52 AM
As I recall there is a female archeologist that has worked on a site in South America and unearthed bones and artifacts that date far earlier than mainstream scientists agree on. Does anyone remember her name and the site ?

I have a few of those I am planning to write about. One is Virgina Steen-McIntyre who found tools in strata in Hueyatlaco, Mexico dated to 250,000 years ago. That has been suppressed. I started writing about Calico Early Man site in the blog section in the last week or so. It looks as if that section isn't going to be seen. Calido has also been suppressed. I plan to write about all the cases I know about in North and South America. I just went out to Calico last weekend and got an update. There have been a few developments I find interesting. One new site on the East Coast is getting some acceptance because of who is involved.

CasperParks
04-25-2012, 05:05 AM
Who were the first to migrate to North America, Solutrians?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL4BB2D600F4B374EF&feature=player_embedded&v=7AH5k3lymx0#!
Part Two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLly_NXKAv0&feature=relmfu
There are nine videos, total
Here are a couple on Kennewick Man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iq-kC-lJWw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EzpmHZFAo
In truth, we know little of our human history

Doc
04-25-2012, 05:27 PM
Years ago, I had an issue of National Geographic that went into detail. Colored maps and everything, looked for it a few months ago and could not find it.

I've seen that map but I never had it. I wish I did!

I'm going to savor the videos you put up as soon as I have a little extra time.

southerncross
04-25-2012, 06:06 PM
Doc, That is who I was thinking of. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Are there any updates on her work on that site? I know they damn near ruined
her career due to the revelations she published. Mainstream archeologists just won't
open their minds and look at evidence when placed before them. If the artifacts were indeed
dated correctly in ancient strata and other tests backed up the date, then they have to think about what they have
and what it means. But most prefer to ignore it because they'd have to admit they were wrong.

Funny thing about science, it's supposed to be about hypothesis and testing and eliminating errors,
but egos can't seem to stick to the scientific method. Sad.

Garuda
04-25-2012, 06:38 PM
Is this the map you're talking about?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature2/images/mp_download.2.pdf

(It's an old one).

CasperParks
04-25-2012, 07:40 PM
Is this the map you're talking about?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature2/images/mp_download.2.pdf

(It's an old one).

Not the one, sorry. I was certian had saved it. Will have to sort through stuff, again. It was good, not sure but think it also had a sub artical of discovery of hut remains, trees that were cut down being the tree-strump had fossilied, deep under the water between far northern america and euoupe.

Chris
04-25-2012, 08:34 PM
I have mentioned it before elsewhere at TOP but I would also recommend the works of Graham Hancock regarding the data out there (but suppressed) regarding the artifacts discovered in the Americas that do not correspond to the "standards" regarding the timelines of human migration.

Doc
04-26-2012, 01:02 AM
I have mentioned it before elsewhere at TOP but I would also recommend the works of Graham Hancock regarding the data out there (but suppressed) regarding the artifacts discovered in the Americas that do not correspond to the "standards" regarding the timelines of human migration.

Thanks for the reminder, Chris. I am going to see what I can find from Hancock about those American sites and whether it is in agreement with what I already have. I expect it will be.

Steen-McIntyre's and Dee Simpson were targets of treachery from the PtB. Steen-McIntyre had her career pretty much ruined. The Mexico sites are getting a new look in the light of the Monte Verde, Chile finds being so hard to refute. Calico is still buried under a mountain of debunkery that a UFOlogist would find all too familiar. The people who support Calico are steadfast but they aren't getting any younger. I have been reading at some archeolgy forums this last few days and it is almost funny reading the debunkery from people who have never been there, much less dug there. Their "truth" doesn't match what we dug up from eight feet and more below the surface.

CasperParks
04-26-2012, 03:19 AM
Thanks for the reminder, Chris. I am going to see what I can find from Hancock about those American sites and whether it is in agreement with what I already have. I expect it will be.

Steen-McIntyre's and Dee Simpson were targets of treachery from the PtB. Steen-McIntyre had her career pretty much ruined. The Mexico sites are getting a new look in the light of the Monte Verde, Chile finds being so hard to refute. Calico is still buried under a mountain of debunkery that a UFOlogist would find all too familiar. The people who support Calico are steadfast but they aren't getting any younger. I have been reading at some archeolgy forums this last few days and it is almost funny reading the debunkery from people who have never been there, much less dug there. Their "truth" doesn't match what we dug up from eight feet and more below the surface.

I think this is guy you're talking about, did a search and found this website.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/

Doc
04-26-2012, 03:32 AM
I think this is guy you're talking about, did a search and found this website.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/

Thanks. That's the guy. :cool:

I'm also trying to remember another one, an American. Some of his books used to be sold through UFO magazines. Can't recall his name, though.

Doc
04-26-2012, 03:46 PM
Thanks. That's the guy. :cool:

I'm also trying to remember another one, an American. Some of his books used to be sold through UFO magazines. Can't recall his name, though.

Update: I had to go do a search after writing that. I thought Hancock was the guy until I saw his picture and read his homepage. The person I was thinking of is David Hatcher Childress.

http://davidhatcherchildress.com/?q=books

He gets a lot of hype as "the real Indiana Jones" which only trivializes his accomplishments. He is one of those people who, with no resources, started going out on his own to see if he could find some of these legendary places and wrote about it. The list of his book reviews on the right side of the page is a real representation of all the things he covers; mostly factual, sometimes speculative.

There is a list of the books he wrote at Amazon, some on Kindle:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=David+Hatcher+Childress

majicbar
04-26-2012, 10:04 PM
I've seen that map but I never had it. I wish I did!

I'm going to savor the videos you put up as soon as I have a little extra time.


http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature2/map.html

March 2006's National Geographic is I think the issue you are looking for and this link is to that issue.

Doc
04-30-2012, 02:50 PM
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0603/feature2/map.html

March 2006's National Geographic is I think the issue you are looking for and this link is to that issue.

Thank you, majicbar. There is another one as well. All I remember about it now is that it did not use the same perspective as the one you linked, it was a more traditional looking map with different colors for the migrations, duller colors IIRC.

In case anyone has further interest in this topic, I've been writing about the Calico Early Man Site over on the blog side. I have one more piece to post then I am going to write about Virginia Steen McIntyre and the Hueyatlaco Site, which is a strong case for much earlier migration through the Western Hemisphere. There is another strong case, too, that has been suppressed for many years.

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/blog.php

Chris
04-30-2012, 06:01 PM
Another person to check out here is Chris Dunn. Chris is an engineer who looks at these discoveries and tries to determine if there couldn't be a practical application or use for them. His work can be followed at www.gizapower.com.

I hope to meet up with him later this year as one of my co-workers knows both Hancock and Dunn.

majicbar
04-30-2012, 11:13 PM
In the 40 years since there have been dramatic improvements in the techniques of rock dating, is it possible that some will again take up the site and try and pin down its true implications (Calico archeological site).

I was recently reading the paper by Richard B. Firestone and William Topping, " Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times", Mammoth Trumpet, Volume 16, Number 2, March 2001 reprinted in Infinite Energy Volume 7, Issue 40, November/December 2001 which details radioactive dating issues with such sites.

This particular article deals with the details of a presumed redating of a Michigan site, the site, which with other Northeastern sites seems to have anomalous dating issues where the Carbon 14 seems to perhaps have a "reset" which makes the artifacts appear to be younger than other evidence would indicate. Presumably a Supernova could have bombarded the region with an intense neutron flux which altered the various nuclear clocks used in dating. The article discusses the various mechanisms that may have been involved. A particular remnant of a Supernova is noted to exist in the Northern skies which could have supplied the needed event for such a resetting of nuclear clocks.

The article can be taken as a caution in using nuclear clocks in general as they are seemingly so sensitive to both Supernova and Solar radiation. Finding a less sensitive means seems unlikely, perhaps greater sophistication will counter that. Integrating a greater database and refined techniques of analysis will I hope make the use of such nuclear clocks more instructive in the future.

Doc
05-01-2012, 05:00 PM
In the 40 years since there have been dramatic improvements in the techniques of rock dating, is it possible that some will again take up the site and try and pin down its true implications (Calico archeological site).

I was recently reading the paper by Richard B. Firestone and William Topping, " Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times", Mammoth Trumpet, Volume 16, Number 2, March 2001 reprinted in Infinite Energy Volume 7, Issue 40, November/December 2001 which details radioactive dating issues with such sites.

This particular article deals with the details of a presumed redating of a Michigan site, the site, which with other Northeastern sites seems to have anomalous dating issues where the Carbon 14 seems to perhaps have a "reset" which makes the artifacts appear to be younger than other evidence would indicate. Presumably a Supernova could have bombarded the region with an intense neutron flux which altered the various nuclear clocks used in dating. The article discusses the various mechanisms that may have been involved. A particular remnant of a Supernova is noted to exist in the Northern skies which could have supplied the needed event for such a resetting of nuclear clocks.

The article can be taken as a caution in using nuclear clocks in general as they are seemingly so sensitive to both Supernova and Solar radiation. Finding a less sensitive means seems unlikely, perhaps greater sophistication will counter that. Integrating a greater database and refined techniques of analysis will I hope make the use of such nuclear clocks more instructive in the future.

Hey! You are stealing my last chapter! :biggrin2:

CasperParks
05-02-2012, 11:45 PM
Off topic but not off topic - Iceman news, blood cells

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57426197/iceman-mummy-holds-worlds-oldest-blood-cells/

Doc
05-03-2012, 02:38 PM
Off topic but not off topic - Iceman news, blood cells

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57426197/iceman-mummy-holds-worlds-oldest-blood-cells/

Interesting. I notice the one comment there mentions similar reports regarding a T Rex. No link, though. Maybe someone can track it down.

I put up the last part about the Calico Early Man Archeology Site over on the blog side. I'm going to move on to some other cases next like Hueyatlaco and Monte Verde.

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/entry.php?218-Forbidden-Archeology-Early-Man-in-the-Western-Hemisphere-Part-6

southerncross
05-05-2012, 07:18 PM
Hey Doc, Sorry for dropping the ball of late. I am having 'puter problems. I will for another week probably till I can get this thing fixed.

In the meantime I look forward to your post on Hueyatlaco. I am interested in any updates from when I read of her discovery and consequent "shaming" out of the community. The closed mindedness of the established archeologists is disappointing as I thought discovery was what science was all about.
Hmmmm,my bad, eh?

Doc
05-07-2012, 05:44 PM
Hey Doc, Sorry for dropping the ball of late. I am having 'puter problems. I will for another week probably till I can get this thing fixed.

In the meantime I look forward to your post on Hueyatlaco. I am interested in any updates from when I read of her discovery and consequent "shaming" out of the community. The closed mindedness of the established archeologists is disappointing as I thought discovery was what science was all about.
Hmmmm,my bad, eh?

I'm sorry to hear you've been having computer trouble. I hope you get back online soon!

In researching Hueyatlaco I had to go back and review some sources I hadn't read in some time to make sure I was getting the context accurately. While looking around I found nearly a dozen other cases of suppressed archeology in the Western Hemisphere. I had heard of maybe two or three of the unknown cases, the rest were buried well because I had not heard a word about them. Of particular note is that some of the sites that are getting acceptance these days are detailed enough and clear enough that the debunkers can't explain them away as easily and maybe not at all. And majicbar was right on the money--the testing has improved and expanded in the last few decades. They are able to subject finds to as many as five different tests that are credible now. This is real "Frontier of Understanding" stuff. I've been thinking about how to handle all of this information to get it to people who read at The OutPost. :cool:

southerncross
05-07-2012, 09:05 PM
I am really looking forward to the Hueyatlaco information as much has just disappeared. And the other subjects are a great tease.
Many if the claims often get trashed because they were not documented in situ and archeologists get all weird about process. I understand but they seem to be unwilling to even consider the possibilities. I am looking forward to your posts!

The computer is still sick. I can resurrect it but need to catch my better half in a moment of weakness and get it reformatted. Meanwhile I am at the library and on my ipod, which btw, is making me blind !

Doc
05-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Graham Hancock update via Filer's Files #18:

"Elves, Aliens, Angels and Ayahuasca,” by Graham Hancock
http://www.listrocket.com/ktml2/user/1241_M837Hca3MN/images/uploads/1241_R4w0rOanv9Pjn6CJuuaa_files/image008.jpgParallel Realms and the Mysteries of the Vine of the Dead."

Judging from the abundant evidence of ancient cave art from all parts of the world, encounters with aliens and UFO's are nothing new. Humanity has been visited, taught and nurtured by non-terrestrial beings for at least 35,000 years, construing them according to different cultural frameworks as "spirits", "elves" or "fairies", "angels" or even "demons", and most recently as "aliens". The same beings and vehicles depicted in the cave art also occur in the much more recent art of surviving shamanistic peoples still living today in remote regions such as the Kalahari and the Amazon jungle.
http://www.listrocket.com/ktml2/user/1241_M837Hca3MN/images/uploads/1241_R4w0rOanv9Pjn6CJuuaa_files/image009.jpg“Voyage into the Supernatural”, the rest of the book moves away from cave art into a completely different frame of investigation, one which is best compared to the ground-breaking books of Jacques Vallée during the 1960s and 70s. While the first part of Supernatural investigates a minor paradigm change, these chapters aim to reassess our entire vision of reality. Hancock prefaces this change of tack with this: Because I had been shaken to the core by my experiences with ayahuasca and ibogaine, I decided to take my investigation further and to explore the extraordinary possibility . . . that the spirit world and its inhabitants are real, that super natural powers and non-physical beings do exist. In this chapter Hancock provides a marvelous illustration of the correspondences between shamanic experiences and the ‘alien abduction’ phenomenon (surrounded by quotes because Hancock is certainly not arguing for ‘nuts and bolts’ UFOs and aliens). It’s a good, solid introduction to what is a quite bizarre topic, and hopefully it provides enough evidence to draw the more ‘straight-thinking’ readers into the following chapters. It also shows (sadly) how little we really understand about ‘alien abductions’, while at the same time presenting ways forward for research, with the many parallels to Psychic experiences.
http://www.listrocket.com/ktml2/user/1241_M837Hca3MN/images/uploads/1241_R4w0rOanv9Pjn6CJuuaa_files/image011.jpgSubsequent chapters add in Vallée’s link between Fairy folklore and UFO experiences. In fact, Supernatural becomes virtually a comparative mythology investigation, with shamanic voyages, fairy folklore, and alien abduction reports. Time after time, Hancock presents stunning evidence to show that these are all part of a single phenomenon.
The Amazonian visionary brew Ayahuasaca (where the active ingredient is DMT) has opened up the experiences of parallel realms and their inhabitants. Furthermore, in part four of the book he ties in DMT, the DNA element of shamanic visions (as explored by Narby, Harner and others), and the idea that information encoded within our ‘Junk DNA’ may be facilitating our education, by either advanced alien civilizations or entities from parallel/spiritual dimensions. Lastly, like a prodigal son returning to his roots, he discusses how this may relate to art and religion in ancient civilizations, specifically the Egyptians and Mayans.
http://www.listrocket.com/ktml2/user/1241_M837Hca3MN/images/uploads/1241_R4w0rOanv9Pjn6CJuuaa_files/image012.pngIt may be high strangeness, but it is also terrific reading. ”Aliens: Why They Are Here, Hancock avoids being overly-holistic and attempts to lay out the individual parts of his hypothesis backed by appropriate evidence. Supernatural could well be a breakthrough book on a number of subjects. Hancock has stepped forward with his high-profile and admitted to taking illicit substances, issuing a challenge regarding the human right to explore our own consciousness. He will also be bringing the strange ‘third realm’ out of the shadows, so to speak, and presenting it to a wide range of newsreaders. There’s something for everyone interested in the ‘alternative’ genres – archaeology and anthropology, religion and mythology, shamanism and altered states, ufology and alien abduction.
Hancock immerses himself in his books, traveling the globe and attempting to ‘walk in the same shoes’ as necessary. This method of narrating his investigation works simply because he is a great writer: he takes the reader with him by employing florid descriptions which somehow never seem to push into excessiveness and hyperbole. Once again Hancock focuses on the work of a number of cutting edge researchers with ‘new Paradigm’ ideas – in Fingerprints of the Gods it Hapgood, while here it is Lewis-Williams, Vallée, John Mack and Benny Shanon – and links the disparate topics together to provide an over-arching theme to the book. In the case of Supernatural, that theme is altered states of consciousness, and whether humanity has grown (perhaps even been ‘taught’) through our capacity to enter into them via hallucinogens and other shamanic techniques.
Graham Hancock is to be commended for picking up the torch which Jacques Vallée and John Keel originally lit, and taking it even further in Supernatural, in order to illuminate the margins of reality. Hancock has admitted to taking illicit substances, issuing a challenge regarding; the human right to explore our own consciousness.
Where do these "others" come from? Parallel universes will be, I believe the overriding theory of the twenty-first century, and it's certainly easy to see, as many have postulated, the often inexplicable aliens emanating from other vibrations rather than other planets, but Hancock introduces an even more audacious theory. Like a lot of archaic/psychedelic thought it originated with the late, great Terence McKenna who, confronted with the prevalence of helix imagery during his trips, postulated that his drug of choice, DMT (an ingredient in many shamanistic substances), makes "information stored in the neural-genetic material available to consciousness." In other words all that "junk" information contained in DNA, which resembles a language and has inexplicably been preserved for millennia, is in fact a message that the superior beings who created it imbedded in advance of the time we would be able to understand it (kind of like the monoliths in 2001). Francis Crick, one of the discoverers of DNA (who was, by the way, under the influence of LSD when he first visualized the double helix shape of DNA - something they sure didn't tell us in high school when we reverently studied The Double Helix) even came to believe that DNA itself was the result of an alien seeding project.

Hancock presents these ideas as more speculative than the rest of the book, as indeed they are, and in his final chapter gives a quick overview of the shamanic origin of all religions and the essentially psychedelic nature of shamanism, tracing the use of hallucinogens in such landmarks of ancient spirituality as the mysteries of Eleuis and the Soma of the Vedas.

All in all, it's an important book which examines the spirit world and UFOs, firmly grounded in scholarship, yet able to utilize the fruits of personal experience and experimentation. Hancock presents a unified theory for almost every encounter between humans and supernatural beings (although, in the "spirit" of the season I must say that, despite the fact that departed ancestors play a role, Hancock does not grapple with the localized phenomena of ghosts. Hancock’s books have sold more than five million copies, have been translated into 27 languages, and include five No. 1 bestsellers. Thanks to http://www.evolver.net/group/evolver (http://www.listrocket.com/public/link.php?url=http://www.evolver.net/group/evolver_san_francisco_bay_area/event/2010/10/07/elves_aliens_angels_and_ayahuasca_graham_hanco&lid=76347&uid=2816118&sid=28369&mid=24769)

Doc
05-17-2012, 12:54 PM
From Victor's List:

WHAT WERE THE CONSEQUENCES OF EARLY HUMAN and
NEANDERTHAL INTERBREEDING?

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/02/what-was-the-impact-of-early-human-neanderthal-interbreeding.html#more

EARLY MODERN HUMANS left Africa about 80,000 to 50,000
years ago. The question has long been whether the physically
stronger NEANDERTHALS, who possessed the gene for language
and may have played the flute, were a separate species or could
have interbred with MODERN HUMANS. The answer is yes, the
two (2) lived in close association.

IN JULY 2011, an international team of researchers led by Damian
Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the University of
Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center announced
that the HUMAN X chromosome originated from NEANDERTHALS
and is found exclusively in people outside Africa, which confirmed
recent findings suggesting that "the two populations interbred,"
said Labuda.

HIS TEAM places the timing of such intimate contacts and/or
family ties early on, probably at the crossroads of the Middle East.
NEANDERTHALS, whose ancestors left Africa about 400,000 to
800,000 years ago, evolved in what is now mainly France, Spain,
Germany and Russia, and are thought to have lived until about
30,000 years ago.

Submitted by VICTOR MARTINEZ at: VictorGM@webtv.net

http://www.victorthewizard.info/

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s320x320/549402_454779621215420_100000501582464_1678352_193 2921973_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=454779621215420&set=o.230703720352159&type=1&ref=nf)

See more on our Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/230703720352159/

southerncross
05-17-2012, 10:33 PM
You know Doc, something bothers me about the timeline of early modern man leaving Africa 50 to 80,000 yrs ago. When I think about the sophisticated underwater temples and astronomical work done in temple alignment and star maps and such in the 15 to 20,000 yrs ago time period, I have a problem with that date of 50 to 80,000 yrs ago. Surely he left earlier in order for evolution and cultural development to have formed.
There's just something not right nere with these timelines. What do you think?

Doc
05-18-2012, 02:19 AM
You know Doc, something bothers me about the timeline of early modern man leaving Africa 50 to 80,000 yrs ago. When I think about the sophisticated underwater temples and astronomical work done in temple alignment and star maps and such in the 15 to 20,000 yrs ago time period, I have a problem with that date of 50 to 80,000 yrs ago. Surely he left earlier in order for evolution and cultural development to have formed.
There's just something not right nere with these timelines. What do you think?

The 50,000 to 80,000 date doesn't sound right to me in the light of recent discoveries. I think they made a mistake similar to the extimations for entry into North America. When they found a lot of evidence in Africa that suggested those dates they prematurely decided that was all there was going to be because it fit with their ideas about evolution. Instead of integrating later finds that contradicted this theory, they denied them and suppressed them.

I think one of the most compelling arguments for older dates is agriculture. Today almost everyone agrees that agriculture could not have developed before civilization began, it had to be at the same time or later. That suggests advanced people at an earlier date that had civilizations before the ones we know about where agriculture was developed.

southerncross
05-18-2012, 02:50 AM
What are the earliest dates on agriculture in the Middle East?
As the Nabta Playa stone circle is about 20,000 yrs old, and they are talking 50,000 years most recent to leave Africa, I do not see how man (despite a modern brain) could create that circle with accurate parallaxes and an accurate star map (showing stars we only discovered recently) with only 30,000 yrs of development from the cave/savannah to star maps. Somebody please explain that amazing leap.

Quite simply, a advanced and informed human mind had developed earlier than currently accepted in mainstream circles. Not being one to attribute everything to alien intervention, I do believe we have our dates off.

Doc
05-22-2012, 11:57 PM
Not Georgia in the USA!

Ancient skeletons discovered in Georgia threaten to overturn the theory of human evolution

By David Derbyshire (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=David+Derbyshire)
UPDATED: 07:26 EST, 9 September 2009

For generations, scientists have believed Africa was the cradle of mankind.
Now a stunning archaeological discovery suggests our primitive ancestors left Africa to explore the world around 800,000 years earlier than was previously thought before returning to their home continent.
It was there - hundreds of thousands of years later - that they evolved into modern humans and embarked on a second mass migration, researchers say.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/09/article-1212060-0657B8C4000005DC-594_468x326.jpg Astonishing discovery: Archaeologists have unearthed six ancient skeletons dating back 1.8 million years in the hills of Georgia

Archaeologists have unearthed six ancient skeletons dating back 1.8 million years in the hills of Georgia which threaten to overturn the theory of human evolution.
The Georgian bones - which include incredibly well preserved skulls and teeth - are the earliest humans ever found outside Africa.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1212060/Ancient-skeletons-discovered-Georgia-threaten-overturn-theory-human-evolution.html#ixzz1vddGM2zb

CasperParks
07-06-2012, 06:45 AM
:yes: I found it!!!

National Geographic, December 2000, located magazine and fold-out wall map!

Link to the artical on line, and the map is on a sidebar to your left.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0012/feature3/

609610

http://nationalgeographicbackissues.com/national-geographic-december-2067.html

Garuda
07-06-2012, 08:07 AM
Thanks!

Here's a link to a PDF with that map: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0012/pdf/feature3_map.pdf

Doc
07-06-2012, 08:18 AM
Good find guys. They were still very conservative with the dating back then. :cool:

Garuda
09-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Here's an interesting documentary on a dig in Mexico that pushes the dates of humans in the Americas back a lot further. (200 000 years or more).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koYWznEIV50

CasperParks
09-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Here's an interesting documentary on a dig in Mexico that pushes the dates of humans in the Americas back a lot further. (200 000 years or more).

It is nice that these older documentarys are showing up on line now.

Garuda
09-01-2012, 04:37 PM
It is nice that these older documentarys are showing up on line now.

This documentary was made in 2012, actually ;)

Doc
09-01-2012, 05:46 PM
I linked the documentary on our facebook page. I will be watching this later. This is one of the suppressed sites I have been following for years.

WildMage
09-03-2012, 09:31 AM
Love this thread lots of awesome tidbits. Watched the documentary last night and it was really interesting. I do hope they get to go back to the dig and get the answers/proof they need to have their findings accepted.

Doc
09-03-2012, 02:34 PM
Love this thread lots of awesome tidbits. Watched the documentary last night and it was really interesting. I do hope they get to go back to the dig and get the answers/proof they need to have their findings accepted.

Acceptance can be very slow in coming. I worked at the Calico dig in the early 1980s when the claims of 80,000 to 120,000 years age had been made ten years earlier. Those claims, in greatly modified form are only beginning to get some acceptance this last year. It is truly like Robert Bakker said that for a new idea to be accepted you have to wait for some of the old farts in the Paleontology Departments to die off.

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/entry.php?218-Forbidden-Archeology-Early-Man-in-the-Western-Hemisphere-Part-6

WildMage
09-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Acceptance can be very slow in coming. I worked at the Calico dig in the early 1980s when the claims of 80,000 to 120,000 years age had been made ten years earlier. Those claims, in greatly modified form are only beginning to get some acceptance this last year. It is truly like Robert Bakker said that for a new idea to be accepted you have to wait for some of the old farts in the Paleontology Departments to die off.

http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/entry.php?218-Forbidden-Archeology-Early-Man-in-the-Western-Hemisphere-Part-6

It is some fascinating stuff, being found out in the field, we may get to be surprised someday with the migratory paths being reversed and demonstrating migrations starting in the Americas. Lol, but then the DNA experts would be in arms and going nuts if anything like that was ever seriously proposed ;)

Then again, there may never have been any true type migration, just a vibrant trading economy alive and well eons ago. The Egyptian tomb anomalies and South American carvings sort of point to this as being the case. The mythology, also points to a much more advanced civilization having existed long before our time. All the DNA evidence shows is there was a bottleneck event some 50,000 years ago, with the likelihood of the survivors being concentrated in Africa. Alternately the survivors who reached out to re-establish trade routes came from Africa.

Old dogma of when man had the capacity and skill set to cross oceans needs to be revisited on many levels.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FglNdqHRUY

CasperParks
11-18-2012, 08:46 AM
Here's an interesting documentary on a dig in Mexico that pushes the dates of humans in the Americas back a lot further. (200 000 years or more).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koYWznEIV50

Got around to watching this, very well done.

Doc
11-18-2012, 09:35 AM
Thanks! Just my kind of stuff. I'm looking forward to watching it. :cool: