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montalk
08-17-2012, 02:39 AM
Every once in a while I'll come across an alien contactee case that has more in common with the phenomenon of demonic, astral parasite, or discarnate entity harassment than aliens.

What distinguishes these cases it the following:


1) The phenomenon has little or no objective physical aspect.


No third party witnesses, as it's all in the head of the target.
No physical impact on the surrounding environment indicating alien presence like footprints, electrical systems being shut down, ground traces by landed ships, humming and vibration.
No signs of alien abduction like scars, cuts, scratches, scoop marks, under the skin bumps suggesting implants, missing time, clocks suddenly off, local reported sightings of ships or lights.


2) What little real aspect exists, is the kind that typifies of ghost / demon / astral entity phenomena. Like seeing shadow beings, crude poltergeist activity, hauntings.

3) The person targeted seems to have his visual system hijacked.


What is seen is then what is shown to the person by these entities. It seems to be internally induced and overlaid upon the person's field of vision, like a hallucination. Hence why what is seen does not affect the physical environment, and why no one else can see the same. This can be used to put the target through all kinds of fantastic experiences, without him ever leaving home.
Hijacking visual systems is within the capabilities of skilled nonphysical beings, especially if they find a weak target.


4) The person is lured into a delusional backstory in which he plays an important role, and through which he can be made to carry out convoluted missions at the command of these entities. The purpose of these missions seems to have no long term strategic payoff as far as the alien agenda is concerned. They seem more for the purposes of opportunistic torture, sadism, sport, entertainment, or simply breaking down the will of the target.

5) The person would eventually be classified as a paranoid schizophrenic, even though unlike true schizophrenia the phenomenon stops completely if the entities are banished or simply move onto another target. Also, unlike medical schizophrenia, these cases show paranormal activity like the shadow beings.

6) In many, but not all cases, the entities loosely mimic aspects of aliens -- the way they look, their ships, even their names -- but like a mock-up instead of the real thing, you can't find any internal logic, consistency, or substance to these aspects. Also, the entities can assume any other number of disguises, such as a secret network of psychic human mobsters, or whatever, without any alien element.

7) In some cases, the person is promised and trained to become a mouthpiece for aliens. The only problem is, their story is so full of holes and delusional that I can't see it doing the alien agenda any good. Therefore I think that's more part of the ego hook for the sake of controlling the person, than part of an alien grooming process to churn out a disinfo agent.

So either:


A) these are aliens doing it in their free time for fun

B) it's nonphysical beings like ghosts or demons who use aspects of the alien phenomenon as a prop to build the particular fantasy that they use to control their targets.

C) it's aliens simply churning out "noise" to drown out the real alien signal. You know, build a totally confabulated case that has a few elements in common with a legit one, then use it to discredit the latter. I'm open to that possibility, but the demonic/ghost aspect still needs to be explained.

I'm aware that, as Fore explained, aliens do push fantasy stories upon their abductees and contactees for strategic reasons such as plausible deniability (make the abductee lose credibility and become disposable as needed) and for seeding disinformation. These cases, however, tend to have signs that typically accompany being an abductee.

At the same time, there are also beings who outwardly project the appearance of alien, but don't show further indication of being alien, but rather demonic or astral parasite. That's why I call them quasi-alien. Once on OMF I started a thread on cryptoterrestrials about this subject, but that term has come to mean other things.

So I just want to bring up the possibility of occult masqueraders or tricksters who, if they are not alien, are polluting the alien research field with their mimicry. Or if they are alien, then there are some sick puppies up there.

I'll briefly discuss some examples when I have more time.

norenrad
08-17-2012, 04:32 AM
Very interesting, I'll be waiting for more. I'm interested because I have my own ideas and they aren't far from yours.

montalk
08-17-2012, 05:15 AM
Very interesting, I'll be waiting for more. I'm interested because I have my own ideas and they aren't far from yours.

Cool, everyone's welcome to chime in.

---

One recent example is the contactee case of Matti Aladin, whom Neuru mentioned in post #456 (http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?291-What-we-think-we-know-so-far&p=11826&viewfull=1#post11826) of Fore's thread:


Hi Fore, remember this thread from last December? http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?133-UFOs-over-Amsterdam

Just today I searched for various combinations of "Matti Aladin" ("Mathew's " real name), "Doram" and "Alfeta" and, among other things, found this: http://www.ufoevolution.com/forums/ufo-general-discussion-news/7723-new-shareware-based-contact-ebook.html

It's 36 pages in all. I don't doubt that even if some of its contents are true, there's likely a lot of disinfo in there (I've yet to read it though, this is just prejudice) since Nordics seem to be profuse liars, probably on par with greys or better. Just in case the forum will be down when you check this post, the direct link to the book itself is this (it's mentioned in the first post): http://62.142.251.150/book/The_Alien_Nation_Inter_Galactic_Monarchy.pdf


Key part is where Matti explains how it all started:



First I had just cone to sleep and the I say a transparent black shadow on the roof, The a woman’s voice asked me “May I come” I vas thinking about a second and said “Yes”, then I had very mild cramp and she probably entered into my body. Then I fell a sleep and next week it started to happen, when I was waiting I light blub a short moment, you know the hue circle it’s always opposite you should see after watching a certain colour, but this was no longer true to me, so I started thinking about it are they going to tell me something about these colours they lasted long and new colours appear when old ones fade, they where very bright, I kept my eyes closed and was thinking “a loud what its this, is this a signal” then they answered to me telepathically “Yes it’s the light language”

Then we started to talk and she introduced her self I’m Anne and I’m a first contact person. After a while there come male voice and we started to negotiate, he said Anne does not fit to you I give you Maria she is better your type of person, se is a doctor and a technician. This time I released that they have reared my thoughts, but the analyse takes time as they seems not yet know everything about me, that was a mental shock, but I tried to keep thinking they are not earth borne so actual no one knows about me here, and that is what matters.


Bold part is my emphasis. Shadow being on the ceiling, asking for permission, granted permission, and seemingly entering the body. If you only read that part without knowing the rest of the story, you'd think it's an everyday example of a nonphysical entity attempting to take possession. Except the story is supposedly all about nordic and grey aliens and spaceships.

Once they had control of his perceptions, he was "permitted to live in their society" and eventually become a starship captain and sector commander. Basically, kept busy and rewarded for obedience with further levels of the game. In reality he never left home. He believed that his consciousness was transplanted to a new body there.



Then they started thinking about giving me their citizenship and doing me a wide aptitude test.
The citizenship means that they regularly copy my memory and they have a new body for me in spaceship ready if I need to move there. My askhardfield would move and they would put my memories in the brains of the new body.

[…] “I said to be a captain if the star ship Enterprise” my opinion said “It’s mine job now but you can apply it when it comes available” (= Actual that ship was not Enterprise, it was battle cruise Wolfgang, named after a famous German composer and contact person. the whole ship class carried it’s name it was the first one and the latest ship they had on that time. […]

As the formal captain moved to technical captain who makes navigations and guides the ship I make all important rules and administrative duties punish crew or decorate it dependence how they did their job. I always used my office among the first contact persons to give reprimands if someone had fighted or insulted others, we did drink some soda, that was paid by me and discus about the matter, most common was sent he guilty opportunists to jail for two hours, that was so mild sentence that it was not booked to persons service records.

Then there was a problem that the technical captain wanted to smoke on command bridge, I told made there a smoking cabin but they did steal his cigarettes when they where on self there, if he did brig his cigarettes to pride he did smoke there. Well we did solve this but it took time.
Cigarettes are expensive in these ships. 10% vol alcohol is allowed to crew and officers can get 40% alcohol. Then there are narcotics, they used that name, but actual it’s a happiness pill, you feel very good in it’s influence time, but it does not dope. There are pills from 15 minutes to 16 hours, these are also expensive. This is also possible to give as a distant medicine, so I had a few tries using 15 minutes and 30 minutes doses.

He was also shown things in his earth surroundings that didn't correspond to things actually happening in physical reality. In other words, internally induced hallucinations:


First it happen in our balcony, they said protect your eyes as good as you can, I did so and then I saw a bright light coming trough my hands it showed red as the blood is reed so it was so powerfully that it penetrated hands and closed eyes. Then they said you can open your eyes. I watched a fieldfare flying, then that bird when direct hit to a flagstaff, bang and it felt, it seems that it did get blind. Then I heard hand drill noise from the neighbours balcony and I watched there, the drill whet dead and there was a painful noise and he seems to fell and then left the balcony, we don’t have direct vision to he other balconies concentrate element in between them. Then I watched power outlet box 16 Amperes, a smoke rise from it. I was thinking what is this and turned mains switch.

Second one happened on our balcony. I felt that someone invisible was standing close to me as he moved and made sound, then they used some sort of measuring device to my breath and then I heard a sound of an air vent, they said Zeldar sarin gas for endure. I smell that and it made a funny feeling so I decided to smoke, I take the lighter and fired it, then I heard loud sound “woosh” and like it had cone to ventilation channels to house, then I heard a noise where glass broke and a flat blow up. Then there was a small very bright white orb in our Persian carpet, I thought immediately beemer, take that orb out. Then it disappeared. No one real complained that their flat was exploded or neither fire departments vehicles was not present.

And lastly, this trick which paranormal entities can do if they have control of your visual systems:


In that hospital I experienced two more paranormal phenomenon, first they said to me close your eyes, I did. I was amazing when the same room appeared there when my eyes where closed.

=====

Another example, not involving aliens but showing many of the same traits as the above case, is Susan O'Brien who wrote "Operators and Things: The Inner Life of a Schizophrenic." Link to her Book (http://www.smashwords.com/books/download/13476/1/latest/0/0/operators-and-things-the-inner-life-of-a-schizophrenic.pdf).

=====

And another example, now unavailable, was TimeTraveler96 from OMF who deleted all his posts long before OMF itself went offline, so now I can't reference it either way. He came home from work one day, exhausted, sat in his lounge chair outside looking up at the sky. In what was probably a hypnagogic or hypnopompic state he saw what looked like a black alien craft in the sky. He was watching it fascinated, and if I remember correctly tried communicating with it. In the days after, he would stand on his patio looking for them, and often seeing them.

Well, that started the feedback loop. Over time this grew out of control, and he was being told by them to run around the wilderness, across fields, through thorny bushes, getting ripped up and nearly lost. He was by some busy street and saw their ships over the cars, weird alien devices hanging off light poles, and more. The ships would lead him on, land, wait for him to try and catch them, and then move off further in the distance, taunting him. They said they were testing him, and if he passed, he would become their ambassador to Earth. So like a puppy he followed them all around town and the countryside getting torn up in the process.

I forget how the story ended, but he caught onto them being manipulative jerks and stepped away from the whole thing. He had JCurcio make some digital drawings of these beings and their ships according to his specifications, and they looked like ant-like grays with tan skin, round black eyes and pointed heads.

Fore
08-17-2012, 06:01 AM
[...]but the demonic/ghost aspect still needs to be explained.

Some aliens appear to leave abductees/contactees turned "on" psychically. It may explain the appearance of paranormal entities gathering on the premises.

------------------------------------

Another possible explaination is that Demons are the pre-deluvian hybrids [disincarnates] who are now dead spirts walking the earth (like in the Bible?). Though I have my reservations I think it might be possible.

------------------------------------

Here is one of my musings from trying to unite the Biblical story to the modern world and ET life forms.

A theory might be that the assumptions we made in Cosmology about there being other life in this Universe is potentially false. Perhaps we are the only ones and the vast Universe is technically empty?

Maybe the ET are really cast outs from a highly evolved "Super Reality" fulll of UltraTerrestrials. The living UT might be caretakers of various realities below that Super Reality we might call A Heaven. These UT I proprose migtht not use conventional technology like you and I. The multitude of UT might have some level of direct control over reality as Administrators.

If some of those UT got thrown out millions (or billions) of years ago, they may have had to resort to developing "technology" like we eventually did. They might have used part of their "Heavenly Knowledge" and converted it into material techniques. In the process they may have (as seen in Scripture) attempted to create derivative bodies from the only living life in the cosmos.

They must have known the Earths location (right?) since they were former Administrators? (well I surmise anyway)

Maybe that is why the Original UT founder [God?] rejects the souls of the hybrid creations found on Earth? (Simply relagates them to external wandering on the Earth or the "Abyss". ( Yet Another reality)

---------------------------------

Perhaps in the span of time since mans first development, the early genetics of man and animal have been plundered and replanted elsewhere (in the nearby cosmos) in hybridized forms. (so called ?Aliens?) Perhaps that is why they came to Earth thousands of years ago looking like hybrid forms between man and animal?

If several mixes of hybrid, human and animal DNA were wrought into whole alien civilizations on the nearest star systems near the earth that would explain alot. (Or maybe even on Earth itself)

If I recall correctly, (someone tell me if I am wrong) there are strange passages in the bible that says that some of the beings that "live below" are Jealous of mankind since we live above. (surface)

If so, then perhaps Demons are just hybrids that are dead as ghosts. Rejected from "the Heavens". Then in this half composed idea the Aliens are really all hybrids of some sort or another with the original founders being the original outcasts from the UT realm. It may also explain why in some ET circles (including mine) the top tier running the show are depicted as non-physical beings?

---------------------------------

What would be the point of creating hybrids though to replace mankind or supplant us?

I haven't contrived a good answer in my half cocked contraption of a hypothesis....

Fore
08-17-2012, 06:22 AM
@ Montalk

Wow, very disturbing stuff. This is either going to be a very great (as in enlightening) thread or a very disturbing one. (either way it makes one pause when you look carefully at how things started out in different cases)

P.S. Currently reading your site: http://montalk.net/gnosis/228/nordic-aliens-and-the-grail-race-abridged

Garuda
08-17-2012, 07:15 AM
...

So either:


A) these are aliens doing it in their free time for fun

B) it's nonphysical beings like ghosts or demons who use aspects of the alien phenomenon as a prop to build the particular fantasy that they use to control their targets.

C) it's aliens simply churning out "noise" to drown out the real alien signal. You know, build a totally confabulated case that has a few elements in common with a legit one, then use it to discredit the latter. I'm open to that possibility, but the demonic/ghost aspect still needs to be explained.



Just to complete the picture: There is an option D, and that is mind control experiments: bombarding people with subliminal messages. Depending on the existing beliefs a person hold, these messages alter the subject's beliefs and even memories into a set of convictions that can be used to undermine a person's mental health and/or easily discredit the person, should the need ever arise.

The situation gets even more complicated because some beliefs a person holds can then function as 'receptor sites' for other activity, like demonic, ET, etc.

Flying Tiger Comics
08-17-2012, 12:33 PM
Just to complete the picture: There is an option D, and that is mind control experiments: bombarding people with subliminal messages.

Exactly. And as Martin Cannon and others have pointed out, there's actual real physical evidence, real congressional testimony and objective confirmation of Option D.

For me, the only nonhuman intelligence substantiated to date doesn't come from outer space, it's definitely John Keel / Jacques Vallee style demonology.

It would be wonderful to have confirmation of space aliens, but there isn't a skerrick of evidence for them so far, whereas both MKNAOMI et al and the demonological / "trickster" entities are extremely well documented.

And not coincidentally, researched by the same psychiatrists.

A99
08-17-2012, 05:07 PM
Idea's generated from various sources...

I think the loosh here is being manipulated by ETs where they have the knowledge and technology to create macro-PK events (materialized psychisms) with it.


Those ETs can also manipulate our consciousness too in order to effect those experiences that Montalk cited in his post here.


So why are they doing that?
To further man's evolution in order to speed up the process to where they are now.


And why would they bother to be engaged in such activities?
It's because human-kind is a dangerous species and at the rate we're going now, unless we start evolving into a more altruistic direction, we may end up destroying not only our own planet but the whole the universe too!


So why don't they just get rid of all of us and start things all over again here?
I guess that's what they very well may do if we don't shape up.


At any rate, paranormal and psi events are formed and caused by a trickster intelligence/force or whatever you want to call it. Its role involves the process of destructuring the rationalization of our modern world through the injection of supernatural events.


And in the process of doing that, imagination comes forth resulting in fresh new ideas and innovations that contribute towards man's evolution not only culturally and spiritually, but also on scientific and technological levels too.


We are at a tipping point in our evolution now where we can either make it or break it.


Granted we still have a long way to go before we ever get to the point like where ‘they’ are at in terms of their altruism and transdimensionality, but our exposure to those supernatural and psi events that inject themselves into our rationalized world illuminates us to those futuristic possibilities that are out there especially in the area of UFOs and alternative forms of energy… and things like space travel and medical innovations and cures for diseases like cancer and the list goes on and on.


The power of thought and imagination is powerful -- and yes, thought and intentions CAN and DO create. The mysteries of the ether that encompasses all creation and is here, there and everywhere where it is the bridge between the physical and the non-physical and it is both but it has yet to be unraveled but we know it is there because we have witnessed it with our own 2 eyes either consciously, unconsciously or both. We are on the threshold of coming close to decoding those mystery’s -- that is, if we don’t destroy ourselves first.


Ostensibly, when our visitors introduce each new meme into our world, it triggers off our imagination to become actual creators of change that will allow us to someday become a valuable and worthwhile contributing member of the intergalactic community.

Fore
08-17-2012, 06:13 PM
I "Think" that after watching various Demon(s) and Various ET side by side....there seems to be no resemblance to one another. The only area they seem to overlap on is the capacity for profuse lying and "the fact" that they both use the similar/or same methods for controlling their human subjects. That would be because there is clearly only one system by which it can be performed. (Just as there is only a set number of ways to power a light bulb)

I am not sure who would win the contest on lying. The ET (especially Grey) are both good and bad liars. The same could be said of Demons with the exception of the very intelligent ones. (They win the cake in some instances)

------------------------------------------

As for there not being proof of actual aliens, I think that is very false, there are plenty of machines (such as camcorders and Radar installations, drones etc) that show that while they may not use conventional earthly methods, their technology is pretty conventional in it's own technological paradigm.

The issue of whether some cases are more paranormal than ET related seemed completely valid to me.

-------------------------------------------

If you ask a Demon to teach you about biology, chances are he won't answer with anything meaningful that you don't already know.

If you ask a Grey to teach you biology, you would probably find that the level of knowledge they have is staggering. You'd probably stay up all night researching the highlights of the lessons and verifying the minute details.

----

It is pretty shocking, but it seems some cases are more paranormal than actual ET intervention. Though what are the chances that over time an individual won't encounter both to some degree?

Do highly psychic non-terrestrials visiting a household on a regular schedule attract paranormal spirits? If they, as psychic beings, exert their psychic talent during their visit. Do they attract non-living spirits to the area of the occurrence? If a human psychic does, why wouldn't a psychic ET attract attention?

Then again, is the same situation conversely true? Would a paranormal group (Like Dr. Greer and his beach sessions) not also eventually attract the notice of passing ET in the area?

----------------------------

For example, in one of the links that A99 gave me a few days ago, I found a separate link that details a wide array of phenomena that a medium-ship group experienced. One of the phenomena described does not sound like a paranormal phenomena but a technological device scanning the group of members.

I'll post the link and see if you take notice of what I am referring to.

http://robinsphysicalphenomena.webs.com/typesofphenomena.htm

A99
08-17-2012, 07:19 PM
Keep in mind that electrons are both a particle AND a wave.

"Energy is the capacity of a physical system to perform work (http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/work.htm). Energy exists in several forms such as heat (http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/heat.htm), kinetic (http://physics.about.com/od/energyworkpower/f/KineticEnergy.htm) or mechanical energy, light, potential energy (http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/potentialenergy.htm), electrical, or other forms." wiki
All of which are composed of electrons hence all of which is composed to particles too.
In fact protons, electrons and neutrons are elementary particles. There is mass and substance there.

From whence do these particles come from?

Nothing is created out of nothing.

The "energy-based way" is just further up the food chain than the "ectoplasmic-based way" The foundational source of each are one and same though.

montalk
08-18-2012, 12:48 AM
You could make a big Venn Diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram) with circles for aliens, ghosts, demons, astral critters, thoughtforms, secret societies and black ops networks, and I bet each overlapping region would have real world examples.


Just to complete the picture: There is an option D, and that is mind control experiments: bombarding people with subliminal messages. Depending on the existing beliefs a person hold, these messages alter the subject's beliefs and even memories into a set of convictions that can be used to undermine a person's mental health and/or easily discredit the person, should the need ever arise.

Thanks, that's plausible too. I've encountered people online who seem to have various degrees of remote electronic mind control. From what I can tell, it's primarily done through transmitted speech and text, more so than direct control of a person's visual system. It's easy to do with microwave tech and implants. A lot can be done with speech and text alone.

Like direct voice-to-skull for "hearing voices" type harassment. Or transmitting only when a person is asleep for dream control and hypnotic programming. In a deep hypnotic or dream state, the spoken script can become a visualized scene, same way you "see" a scene when reading a novel. Or it can simply bypass the conscious mind and dream process altogether, and dump thousands of subliminal repetitions into the subconscious to drive you toward depression, isolation, suicide, or whatever.

Microwaves can also cause headaches and temple pressure, fatigue, aggravation, numbness, and electrical tingling. But so can paranormal / alien activity that uses influence / etheric manipulation. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. There is evidence for both. One difference is that a faraday cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage) will stop electronic harassment, but not get rid of negative entity attachments.

I'd go further, and say there are aspects of the alien phenomenon that cannot be fully explained by either electronic methods or demons. Fore highlighted some differences between aliens and demons. As far as I'm aware, demons simply don't have advanced scientific knowledge, real technology, tangible ships, bases, or bodies for that matter.

That's why in the Venn Diagram, I like having many circles, because they're all needed to cover all the observed examples.

montalk
08-18-2012, 12:54 AM
I "Think" that after watching various Demon(s) and Various ET side by side....there seems to be no resemblance to one another. The only area they seem to overlap on is the capacity for profuse lying and "the fact" that they both use the similar/or same methods for controlling their human subjects. That would be because there is clearly only one system by which it can be performed. (Just as there is only a set number of ways to power a light bulb)

Just remembered, what about that reptilian creature you once observed, that had the signature of a spiritual [nonphysical] entity despite appearing outwardly alien? The one that might have been what Traynor referred to as a "Zard" [short for Liz-zard]? Where would that being fit into all this?

A99
08-18-2012, 01:37 AM
That's a great idea for a Venn Diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram) Montalk! I'm sure many people would find that diagram very useful!

Fore
08-18-2012, 02:47 AM
Just remembered, what about that reptilian creature you once observed, that had the signature of a spiritual [nonphysical] entity despite appearing outwardly alien? The one that might have been what Traynor referred to as a "Zard" [short for Liz-zard]? Where would that being fit into all this?

I have only witnessed three individual entities I could say are clearly reptillian or have reptillian-esque features.

The one that attempted to solicit me shortly after the Advisor and the Grey ended the project. An Entity using a British [English] speaking voice whom presented me with options and said it would be in the area if interested for a number of days. It stated that it worked with the US government. Whether that is true or not, it seemed to act, behave and speak like any "normal" ET. (whatever normal is for them ?? LOL)

-------

Another was an entity I once encountered in a prior home that I had lived in for many years, it came from a fissure in "Influence" space above a bed. It bumped into something and had all the particular behaviors of an intelligently aware [purely spiritual] paranormal presence. It was taller than me if I recall correctly. It observed me as I encountered it and then it rentered the fissure and disappeared from the room at the center of the fissure.

Psychics tend to call these fissures "vortexes or tears or 'portals' ". During the time it was present, I scanned it and noticed it had very strange signatures and an unusual awareness. It had reptillian like mentality.

------

The last was a so called "Zard". I was pestering a member called Traynor at the time to send over one of his Alien contacts so that I could observe it. For the record, Traynor claimed none was ever sent after I related the encounter.

I had laid down at the time to take a snooze and was awoken by a disturbed family member, they stated as they awoke me that "some presence" was watching them intently through the front door and it's side window. They said they kept recieving intense chills and other sensations. I got up and went to investigate and indeed, there was a presence standing on the other side of the front door, it was incredibly ceepy and intense in it's emanations.

After a while I went to sleep again, and it apparently followed me into the house. As I slept it took it upon itself to grab my hand and pull on me. I awoke to find it floating in mid air and scanned it several times and confirmed it was a paranormal presence, not an ET. It's signature had the strangest variations of a reptillian-esque features.

It reminded me ever so slightly of the other paranormal reptillian but there were differences. After much thought and analysis I determined it was soem kind of unknown Demon type that I had no frequent encounters with.

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The first story depicts an ET. Even after I awoke I could still notice its psychic connection.

The second is some kind of unknown paranormal spiritual.

The third is clearly some kind of Demonic paranormal spiritual.

I suppose there must be reptillian life out there somewhere. What the paranormal ones were when [or if] they were ever alive...beats the heck out of me!

norenrad
08-18-2012, 06:00 AM
Seems there is an interest in us that we don't understand. Demons are interested in us, aliens are interested in us and we become interested when we get glimpses of either of them. I still do not understand, with their otherworldly knowlege and experiences, why are they interested in us.

The only possible reasoning is that we share something or have something that they lost or will never attain, that or they are us, only in another form or time.

Once we realize the connection, we'll understand their interest and motivation. Until then, I can only think of them as puzzling curiosities; to be ignored when I have more important things on my mind... like the price of gas.

norenrad
08-18-2012, 06:05 AM
One other thing, I'm currently maintaining the telephones in the Aerospace division of Ball Corporation. I might be on the wrong track, but I swear some of those people are from another planet. I understand the need for nerds and geeks, but some of these people act very peculiar... just a thought.

montalk
08-18-2012, 09:00 AM
Another possible explaination is that Demons are the pre-deluvian hybrids [disincarnates] who are now dead spirts walking the earth (like in the Bible?). Though I have my reservations I think it might be possible.

Might relate to the Titans of Greek mythology. They were giants, like the Biblical Nephilim. They once ruled the earth during a golden age (i.e. prior to the Fall) but were overthrown by a younger group of gods and imprisoned in Tartarus, which is similar to the Biblical Abyss:


At once both a place deep beneath even the underworld and a personification of the place. So dark and sunless is Tartarus that its gloom has its own personification - Erebus. To reach Tartarus an anvil dropped from the surface would fall for nine days. It is below the roots of the earth and the sea. Surrounded by a bronze fence with gates of iron it is used as the ultimate place of imprisonment. The Hecatoncheires act as its guards. Zeus imprisoned most of the Titans here.

from: http://edweb.sdsu.edu/people/bdodge/scaffold/gg/primordial.html#Tartarus


(Btw, 9 days free fall in vacuum = orbital radius of Uranus).

I haven't yet studied comparative demonology from different cultures, but that could hold some answers.


Here is one of my musings from trying to unite the Biblical story to the modern world and ET life forms.

A theory might be that the assumptions we made in Cosmology about there being other life in this Universe is potentially false. Perhaps we are the only ones and the vast Universe is technically empty?

Sounding like Dan Smith there, ha.


Maybe the ET are really cast outs from a highly evolved "Super Reality" fulll of UltraTerrestrials. The living UT might be caretakers of various realities below that Super Reality we might call A Heaven. These UT I proprose migtht not use conventional technology like you and I. The multitude of UT might have some level of direct control over reality as Administrators.

Yes, I see personal evidence of that. Or at least, of there being UTs that do have direct control over reality down to the minutest mundane detail if they wish and can do things that aliens cannot. One day I'd like to ask about and discuss the relation between the higher mind, higher order entities, and this possible 'super reality' -- and to what extent these things influence our perceived collective reality down here.


If some of those UT got thrown out millions (or billions) of years ago, they may have had to resort to developing "technology" like we eventually did. They might have used part of their "Heavenly Knowledge" and converted it into material techniques. In the process they may have (as seen in Scripture) attempted to create derivative bodies from the only living life in the cosmos.

That's possible too, could be the ultimate goal of the hybrid breeding program, to create a species that can be fully incarnated into by negative UTs. Maybe that's already been done, with some reptilians being examples, and we're next?

Though at the moment, what you described sounds more like those nonphysical higher ups that ETs are always taking orders from, whom we don't know much about. Maybe they're on the other side of the life line, and have their henchmen here working on their behalf. Reminds me of the movie "Chronicles of Riddick."

Because it seems to me that physical or quasi-physical aliens in general are not as advanced or evolved yet as the UTs, versus having once been equally advanced and having since regressed to where we see them now. What I mean is, compared to UTs, they seem immature rather than crippled or bound, if that makes any sense.

---

Or if UTs were fallen/cast out, maybe they'd remain UTs without bodies, and without physicality they'd not need technology either. If they stayed that way, that fits demons pretty well.

Or maybe demons are original creations of this underworld of ours. Maybe they are its best attempt at creating its own version of positive UTs -- kind of like a negative reaction to a positive divine action, or like a mirror image in water that's as deep down as the original image is high up. Literally, the 'angels' of the 'anti-heaven.' It's said that angels were created pure and perfect but without much freewill, so what if demons were likewise created as perfectly pure evil beings but without much freewill.

---

Also, when you have a demon infestation, the ones who can come down to take care of them are the Higher Order Entities (angels). That suggests some kind of parity or symmetry between the two, like they have something in common, like two ends of the same spectrum. Like cops and robbers. Conversely, if you have an alien problem, it seems other aliens are the ones who step in.

--

Another thing that's intrigued me is the interaction/relation between higher order beings and aliens, or between aliens and demons/ghosts. Questions like, what's the relation/interaction between an alien caretaker and spiritual guardian? Or between spiritual guardian and negative ETs trying to compromise you? Or between alien caretaker and a nasty negative discarnate (you recounted that one once)? And so on. Or -- can of worms -- between negative ETs and the negative discarnates and demons, which you once theorized may have been employed by the first as a control mechanism. I've heard that MILABs and trauma-based mind control victims can have demons installed in them for such a purpose.

A99
08-18-2012, 01:41 PM
I'm just throwing out some idea's here but in regards to ETs... or maybe a certain faction of those entities who claim to be from other galaxies and planets, they could be ET disincarnates who are operating from the astral realms. Because their own technology was millions of years ahead of our while they lived in an incarnate state on their respective planet, they carried over those aspects of that technology after they transited over to the astral realms where they are much more effective in transdimensional communication and other kinds of technological feats when relating in different ways to our own physical plane here than say... less technologically developed demographics in that realm... like human disincarnates from our planet for example.

A99
08-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Montalk stated:

Another thing that's intrigued me is the interaction/relation between higher order beings and aliens, or between aliens and demons/ghosts. Questions like, what's the relation/interaction between an alien caretaker and spiritual guardian? Or between spiritual guardian and negative ETs trying to compromise you?

I'm a long time experimenter and researcher in the ITC field, based on our communications from those who dwell in those realms outside of our own, the information we have received is that the astral realm is organized like interconnected Mandelbrot Sets (not like a layered cake...lol). Many of those populations of disincarnates from other places and era's in our universe live in their own sector within those sets where they are not in communication and are isolated from other sectors.

This could explain why channelers, for example will receive communication from a being who claims to be from another planet other than earth who will share their information on their own cosmology and many other things too where they will also insist that everything they say is the ONLY TRUTH and that there are no other versions of the kind of information they are sharing. But we already know that contactee's and channeler's each have their own versions of reality that is being communicated to them from their contacts. Those contacts may not even know that other communicator's from other places from their realm exist hence why they are not sharing information between them... The implications for all of this needs to be evaluated by the discerning receiver on our plane of information received from communicators from other realms for this reason.. but many don't do that.

This said though, other extra-planetary sources are in fact in contact with other groups at those non-locals 'up there'. In fact, there are 'places' that exist where many different types of beings will visit or even reside in that looks like something out of some kind of interplanetary central casting.

What's interesting, and Fore and I have had conversations on these topics before in the past too, is that, according to the information we in the ITC field have been receiving, our cosmology bears some similarity, as least in certain aspects of it, to the way it's depicted in The Urantia Book.

But even in my own field of study and expertise, when it comes to information like this, unless I get some verifications from my own contacts as to the veracity of any new information that comes in from other researchers... I will put that information on hold for the time being. But much of what I know is based on the information I have received from my own contacts and like it is for everybody else in the field who are at the same level I am at in terms of experience and the quality of the information we receive as well as our own level of abilities in the field too, many of us have been receivers of the same information. I have always found that very exciting!

Fore
08-18-2012, 06:12 PM
Also, when you have a demon infestation, the ones who can come down to take care of them are the Higher Order Entities (angels). That suggests some kind of parity or symmetry between the two, like they have something in common, like two ends of the same spectrum. Like cops and robbers. Conversely, if you have an alien problem, it seems other aliens are the ones who step in.

-- Normally, I would agree with you that this is the case, but I think it may not [necessarily] be the case.

To show why I would have to thumb through a ton of encounters to weigh in on it properly. That takes me some time.





Another thing that's intrigued me is the interaction/relation between higher order beings and aliens, or between aliens and demons/ghosts. Questions like, what's the relation/interaction between an alien caretaker and spiritual guardian? Or between spiritual guardian and negative ETs trying to compromise you? Or between alien caretaker and a nasty negative discarnate (you recounted that one once)? And so on. Or -- can of worms -- between negative ETs and the negative discarnates and demons, which you once theorized may have been employed by the first as a control mechanism. I've heard that MILABs and trauma-based mind control victims can have demons installed in them for such a purpose.


what's the relation/interaction between an alien caretaker and spiritual guardian?

What I am going to write is not super definitive without thinking about it for a week or more....but....from what I could tell in my own case:

The Spiritual Entity I call "The Guardian" stated for the record that she was always present throughout everything since the begining. She claims she was in the background since the start of the ordeal and was instructed by people "higher" than her to allow it all to happen. She reintroduced herself (and reminded me of who she was, at the point after I parted with the Advisor) that she was there even while I was inside of my mothers womb.

The "Guardian" stated that up through my initial agreement with the advisor she was instructed by higher individuals to allow it to occur. She said her instructions were to only interfere if I rejected the presence of the Advisor and the others. She said when I was very small, and even before I had been born or put into the womb, that she made an agreement with me to stay perpetually by my side whenever I requested it.

When asked why she didn't interfere in the entire set of events, she stated the above and stated that she watched over me and remained in the background as instructed. She stated that she never left my side even if I wasn't fully aware she was in the background watching over the events. She stated a few times she tried to intervene as developments occurred but that I wasn't "really aware" of who she was during the turmoil of events. She said she was free to propose to me the correct course of action but cannot obligate or coerce me to follow through.

She was the one whom helped me resolve a number of issue and showed me the "Lords Prayer" when I didn't know it to ask for intervention.

-----------------------------------

She [The Guardian] avoids the direct issue of questions surrounding the ET whom were present. She only told me that the Advisor has very strong influence and sway over me and controls me. She warned/reminded me repeatedly when I would try to go to the Advisor that I must stay away from her and the others [referencing the ET group etc]. She stated they manipulate me even when I think I am the one whom is manipulating them.

She stated that the Advisor must be avoided if she ever reapproaches me. (Which is what I did)
She stated/warned: That I may want to be with her, but that she is not free of her obligations [?]. That she cannot seperate herself from the situation that she is embrolied in. Any time I invite her into my presence she comes with others attached to her situation.

-----------------------------------

3 years or so ago, the Advisor was trotted out by the ET group whom took over my project. A bunch of ET strangers trotted her out hoping I would be willing to negotiate a change in behavior. 2 of the 4 of the strangers stated that my releases of information on their timed activites was causing a human group to ascertain their locations of origin. They stated they went through some noticeable trouble in avoiding the survielance. They asked me not to state the times of their activity.

I didn't exactly cooperate.

They trotted out the Advisor whom came down and as she reconnected to me I felt fear from what the Guardian told me. Not really even because of what she told me, but from fear of it all starting up again. The Advisor clearly noticed how I felt about it and didn't try to connect deeply. She hanged back and kept her distance.

She hadn't changed much in the last 5 or 7 years. And when she showed up again, she did the negotiations. She didn't try to answer any of my questions that didn't pertain to the negotiation. She said to stay on topic and advised me on what was a realistic trade for my silence on the ET activity. She let me know she was there for buisness. She seemed to be a little frustrated that I rejected her first approach.

We conducted our negotiation and then she left. They did almost all of their part and I tried to abide by their rules until I became convinced they had defaulted on the ending part of their agreement.

-----------------------------------------

I don't recall any commentary against the "Guardian". They clearly knew of each other but they try not to refer to one anothers activity. There seems to be a big secret that all of them [even Higher Order Entities] avoid mentioning.

The Guardian is very passive and doesn't interfere in pretty much anything except when I am about to do something very wrong. On occasion she lets me know about a situation that would concern me.

Like for example, she mentioned a few months ago, that my pet cat was going to escape through a window he tore a hole through. I thought to ignore her but she stated that I would likely be heart broken if the cat went missing. So I got up and went to the room and window she mentioned and there was the rascal trying to escape through a rip in the window.

A few days ago, she let me know that the workmen were done for the day when I was watching a movie on the TV in another room with headphones on to drown out the noise. Or she often tells me when a stranger is standing out in the front of the gate to the house. Or she tells me when something pretty bad is about to happen in the near future.

Though her abiltiies seem to be less capable than mine and no where near that of the Advisor.

Fore
08-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Another thing that's intrigued me is the interaction/relation between higher order beings and aliens[...]

Again, they seem to avoid directly interfereing in each others activity.

One of the Higher Order Entities came down right next to a Nordic, they performed their buisness on a malevolent entity but the Nordic was not affected.

The Nordic was seemingly surprised to see the Higher Order Entity. The Higher Order Entity seemed to be aware of the Nordic but seemingly ignored its presence.

-------------------------------

There seems to be a direct avoidance of one another. Illogical, but "there it is" in my case at least.

The Nordic seemed to be more impacted by the Angel than the Angel by the Nordic.
The ET seemed more surprised than anything to "see one" in real life. I recall the thoughts that went through the ETs head was something like "I had heard about it, but never seen one in real life" or something close to that.

The Angel seemed to ignore the ET and instead focused on the malevolent spiritual entity.

There didn't seem to be any fear from the ET, more like surprise.

Flying Tiger Comics
08-19-2012, 05:53 PM
Keel, from Fate magazine, Sept. 2007:

“I returned to Point Pleasant several times in 1967, learning more about the phenomenon with each trip. Several contactees (people who thought they had met the flying saucer occupants) had emerged and I was hypnotizing them and studying them carefully. I found these people had two levels of memory. The first level, the surface level, recalled under hypnosis a fascinating adventure, usually of being taken aboard a wonderful flying saucer. But the hidden level, which was difficult to get at and usually took several hypnotic sessions before it could be reached, rejected the false memory (confabulation) and painted a different picture. Most of these contactees had been transported to a van or house where they were subjected to brain-washing techniques and injected with an unknown substance. They were given a confabulation to remember and were released.

“But no matter how hard I tried I couldn’t find out who was doing this. The whole contactee syndrome was a fraud, but the contactees were innocent victims. Why was anyone going to all the trouble to create these contactees? Many people in West Virginia told me of seeing strange, unmarked vans cruising the back roads at night.”

montalk
08-20-2012, 03:09 AM
Seems there is an interest in us that we don't understand. Demons are interested in us, aliens are interested in us and we become interested when we get glimpses of either of them. I still do not understand, with their otherworldly knowlege and experiences, why are they interested in us.

The only possible reasoning is that we share something or have something that they lost or will never attain, that or they are us, only in another form or time.

We can glean a little from their chosen mode of operation, and the direction they try to influence our thoughts and behaviors. Doesn't reveal the whole thing, but something better than nothing.

Demons seem to do nothing but cause misery, suffering, fear, oppression, spiritlessness, and corruption of goodness. Maybe they feed off the energies of slowly dying souls. Like spiders injecting their fluids and sucking up the innards of their prey. They just seem like the ultimate parasites of Creation, like black holes swallowing up the (spiritual) universe.

Maybe there is some psychological complex to it. Maybe they are conflicted between wanting to reject the Creator, and not being able to split off from Creation due to the fact that the Creator sustains existence. So they go into denial about the fact that they may still, at the deepest level, be connected to the Creator. And in attempting to maintain that denial, they develop an insatiable obsessive-compulsive drive to destroy, corrupt, and blot out beings outside themselves who still have some connection to the Creator.

Or if they are beings who are cut off from the divine, then maybe they're cut off from its energy too. And so they have to get that energy from that which is still somewhat connected to the infinite Source. Maybe we are the next step up the ladder, and they're simply below us, snapping at our toes. If they had their way, I can see Earth becoming completely terraformed with their toxic 'influence' that would allow these demons to roam freely and turn remnants of humanity into mere batteries.

Flying Tiger Comics
08-20-2012, 03:15 AM
Or maybe demons are like redline shrimp and they scrape off negative energy, producing more spores of it in the process so they always have food.

If they're the ghosts of the nephilim or not, they definitely seem to be information vampires.

Whether there are space aliens or demons or both out there, if something constantly tells lies, it's bad, not good. That at least is unequivocal.

montalk
08-20-2012, 03:19 AM
Keel, from Fate magazine, Sept. 2007:

Thanks, very interesting. No doubt, military PsyOp is a real component somewhere in it all. For anyone interested, here's the out-of-print Operation Trojan Horse (http://in2worlds.net/file_download/6) by John Keel, and the Lulu hardcopy version (http://www.lulu.com/shop/john-keel/operation-trojan-horse/paperback/product-14361150.html). It's Keel's most comprehensive book on what's wrong with the Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis.


Normally, I would agree with you that this is the case, but I think it may not [necessarily] be the case.

To show why I would have to thumb through a ton of encounters to weigh in on it properly. That takes me some time.

No hurries or obligation, but yes that would be helpful. Thanks for the rest of your post on this, gave me lots to think about.

A99
08-20-2012, 06:20 PM
I have a question. Demons are master mimickers and shapeshifters. That they feed off the energy we humans emanate from our innate emotional vibrational spectrum -- could we say that those ETs out there that have been reported as 'energy feeders', like Reptilians, for example, are actually demons in disguise and that it would be fair to say that this particular attribute of any ET that is like that (an energy feeder) is in fact a characteristic that should allow us to identify such so-called ETs or UT's as demons in disguise?
By the way, my understanding of demons is that they are entities/intelligences of the angelic hierarchy in various ancient and modern world religions and philosophical thought systems. Other cultures and religions and esoteric paradigms have other names for them. A demon, for example, is not a low level human disincarnate though they certainly can and do disguise themselves as such.

montalk
08-21-2012, 01:33 AM
I have a question. Demons are master mimickers and shapeshifters. That they feed off the energy we humans emanate from our innate emotional vibrational spectrum -- could we say that those ETs out there that have been reported as 'energy feeders', like Reptilians, for example, are actually demons in disguise and that it would be fair to say that this particular attribute of any ET that is like that (an energy feeder) is in fact a characteristic that should allow us to identify such so-called ETs or UT's as demons in disguise.

You may have noticed that there are different types of 'energy feeding.' An entity (or even a human psychic vampire) can literally siphon off your lifeforce without you feeling a tinge of emotion. In the case of a psychic vampire, they can simply be standing next to you or having some boring small-talk conversation. I think proximity is required for this. Afterwards you feel blank, tired, flat, uncreative. They waltz away with a new spring in their step as they're all charged up. Or with a discarnate entity, having one around your home can lead to chronic fatigue as well. So that's one type.

Then there's what seems to be emotional energy feeding. Either it's emotional energy that's being harvested, or emotions are another -- maybe more effective -- means by which the same lifeforce mentioned above is obtained. So here, they aim to induce aggravation, devotion to some illusory idol, lust, sorrow and depression, fear and guilt, and so on. The emotion is an important component. I don't think proximity is as important. For instance, demons could possess some guru and create a network of duped followers around the world who lavish him with their devotional energies. So maybe emotions are a means of inducing a sending of energy toward a particular collection bucket.

But in the esoteric / mystical tradition, a distinction is made between etheric energy which is both lifeforce energy as well as the underlying source code of existence, and astral energy which has to do with emotions and drives and passions. They could be different part of the same spectrum, the latter being more subtle and refined in some way. Robert Monroe talked about "loosh" energy, how Earth was set up as a farm for its production, and how it started with microbes and plants producing only a "crude oil" version of it, while later human lifeforms were seeded that produced a "jet fuel" version thanks to the new capacity for emotion and the subsequent suffering, worry, depression, fear this allowed.

Point being that demons, discarnates, and astral parasites aren't always content just passively siphoning lifeforce energy. They're really trying to milk us sometimes, and turning people into emotional basket cases or emotional dairy cows seems part of it. The 'quasi-alien mind manglers' mentioned on this thread are sadistic opportunistic predators. Demons aren't just mechanical energy vacuum cleaners. They're malicious, hateful, seething intelligent beings. And so I figure, just as humans need both lifeforce energy to sustain the processes of life and consciousness *as well as* something higher to fuel our creative, emotional, spiritual processes, so might demons need both basic lifeforce energy to sustain their form and something more refined/subtle to feed the malicious aspect of their being.

Btw, I'm not aware of examples in UFOlogy indicating that real Nordics or tangible Grays by themselves feed off our energy. They seem entirely business/strategy oriented. But what's been reported about reptilians, well that's where you find terror and torture as ends in themselves. Therefore I think those entities, whoever they are, are indeed energy feeding. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that they're aliens who are possessed by demons.

A99
08-21-2012, 03:07 AM
You've more than answered my questions and I must say, you never cease to amaze me. thanks!

A99
08-21-2012, 08:39 PM
Just a few thoughts about loosh in an effort to resolve some of my own issues that I have about all of that....

The whole notion that we were created to produce loosh for our Creator implies that He ‘needs’ us because we are sustaining Him with our positive ‘loosh energy’. So if we are to believe this, then what it says in the Book of Genesis about us being created in the image and likeness of G-d so that He could share His all encompassing and infinite love with us ,apparently, is not the whole story -- so it would seem, but not quite. Allow me to continue.


The question is, what happens when Love is gone? Does our Creator cease to exist too?


But that won’t happen because G-d is love, and solong as we are still around, there will always be love too because we were created in His image and likeness.


What the mystics call “life-force energy” is actually love in its purest form… and love is our Creator and He is in each and every one of us.


So what it comes down to is this… if we were to follow this line of logic, we can surmise that in reality, G-d does NOT need us to sustain him because there is no separation between G-d and ourselves in the first place. IOW, we are all ONE.

Neuru
10-15-2012, 12:13 AM
Seems there hasn't been much activity here lately. Here are some accounts from the UFO Casebook Forum from someone with a not exactly benevolent discarnate companion. (Of course it's entirely plausible that it was a troll or an attention-seeker.) She sure seemed to like it though.

My relationship with a NORdic alien
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=worldwide&action=display&num=1301867465

"Hello I'm new and posted my story" (a follow-up thread to the previous one)
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=tips&action=display&num=1301937714

Yeah, she says that this incorporeal alien raped her many times along with his astral buddies but everything's A-OK now and he loves her and whatnot. *shudders* Casebook is a very large forum, it's probably got quite a few similar cases posted but it can take some time to find them.

Neuru
10-15-2012, 01:15 AM
if we were to follow this line of logic, we can surmise that in reality, G-d does NOT need us to sustain him
Yes, that wouldn't be the real Creator but an impostor who claims to be the real deal yet needs others to sustain itself. Thoughtforms aka constructs are more like that, aren't they? Montalk also has an article on his site that presents the hypothesis that the deity of the Old Testament was actually this.

Now this is where it gets interesting, I don't know if Fore actually made this connection before (haven't had a lot of time to read his many posts scattered around the OM archive) or if this is even a valid connection but in some thread, I think it was the Bible thread on the old forum or his old thread, he said that what he calls "phantoms" don't have the signature of a "living being". This is where I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I think he said that demons don't have that signature either? If he did say that then that would imply that demons are actually fat, foul, rotten thoughtforms that have gone out of control. Obviously if he didn't say this then this hypothesis of mine doesn't apply.

But even if he did not say that, then in the case of phantoms it's interesting that (IIRC - don't take my word for it) Fore said they generally hate human beings. So if phantoms are thoughtforms, who created them in the first place? Reason for asking that is that more than a few people claim to have created completely sentient thoughtforms themselves and not malevolent ones while at that. I encourage anyone with more than a bit of time on their hands to examine this site: http://tulpa.info/

A great deal of the people on that site reject metaphysics and the existence of anything paranormal, and I think that's actually a really good thing in this case, scientific endeavor cannot afford haphazard leaps of faith. (The ordinary person who does not perceive the invisible world or has frequent encounters with weirdness would have quite a few leaps of faith to make.)

With that said, if I were to take a guess, in light of testimonies posted by Fore, A99, Montalk et al. about what these people are actually making, then it'd look like this, in decreasing order of plausibility (IMO):


An applied form of the bicameral mind hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)). Thus, they are exploiting a legacy feature of the human brain that's present but not consciously utilized by most. Do note that the hypothesis itself is not really taken seriously in mainstream science presently.
Like #1 but they're actually exploiting a bug/feature in their interconnect structures. Maybe the tulpa creation process (note that they use the word "tulpa" in a non-metaphysical sense) can actually allow the higher mind to, err, manifest multiple lower minds in a single human brain? Is such a thing even possible?
Early on in the tulpa creation process, they actually (without their knowing) capture one of the many freely floating abandoned astral bodies and mold that to their will by slowly infusing it with their own influence patterns. This is where it's starting to get implausible as you don't have to be psychic at all to create a tulpa. Relevant though that Matti, among his many ludicrous claims, does mention that the Earth has a lot of "askhard fields" (probably an amalgam of "astral" and some Finnish word) going about which resonates with Fore's claims of a lot of spirits hanging around here since we don't have global influence regulation infrastructure that would make this planet really uncomfortable for them.
In a rare case they're actually preparing themselves for non-physical beings to interface with their minds. (IIRC Fore did say that ordinary possession by non-demonic beings takes a lot of time.) I think at best this would be a very, very rare case. Similar to #4, these non-physical would then more or less mold themselves to the personality the tulpa creator desired - maybe because the tulpa creator has more freewill than the being, or maybe because they would consider that wise. So if someone can create
THEY'RE CONSORTING WITH DEMONS!!!!!! QUICK, LET ME GET MY FLAMETHROWER!!!!!1!11!!1!1eleventyone


Ok, #5 is more than a tad paranoid. Also, these above possibilities are all hypothetical, food for thought as they say. Apologies if I misquoted someone, that's more than likely, corrections welcome.

So that's some additional topics for this thread, hopefully. I'd start a tulpa thread if I had a tulpa - not yet, probably won't either. Would be interesting though for a fairly developed psychic to scan someone with a tulpa and report what they psychically perceived.

Neuru
10-15-2012, 01:56 AM
(The ordinary person who does not perceive the invisible world or has frequent encounters with weirdness would have quite a few leaps of faith to make.)
This should read:

(The ordinary person who does not perceive the invisible world or does not have frequent encounters with weirdness would have quite a few leaps of faith to make.)

montalk
10-15-2012, 03:12 AM
Very interesting post, Neuru. Reminds me of the Philip Experiment. Some parapsychologists in the 70s tried to invoke a dead person from the 1600s. The ghost eventually manifested and performed table levitation, made knocking sounds, answered questions. Except, the group had made up this character ahead of time, and were therefore invoking a fictional personality. So what was it that performed the paranormal feats?

Article summarizing it: http://www.torontoghosts.org/index.php?/Misc-Reports/The-Philip-Phenomenon.html

Short documentary on the experiment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2lGPT2J1cc

John Keel brought up this idea in "The Mothman Prophecies":


There is an old house on a tree-lined street in New York's Greenwich Village which harbors a strange ghost. Hans Holzer and other ghost-chasers have included the house in their catalogs of haunted places. The phantom has been seen by several people in recent years. It is dressed hi, a long black cape and wears a wide-brimmed slouch hat pulled down over its eyes as it slinks from room to room. Self-styled parapsychologists have woven all kinds of fantasies around this apparition. Obviously a spy from the revolutionary war was caught and killed in the old house.

But wait. This ghost may not be a member of the restless dead at all. There were never any reports of hauntings there until about twenty years ago, after the house was vacated by a writer named Walter Gibson. He was, and is, an extraordinarily prolific author. For many years he churned out a full-length novel each month, and many of those novels were written in the house in Greenwich Village. All of them were centered around the spectacularly successful character Gibson created in the 1930s, that nemesis of evil known as The Shadow. If you have read any of The Shadow novels you know that he was fond of lurking in dark alleys dressed in a cape and broad-brimmed slouch hat.

Why would a Shadow-like apparition suddenly appear in an old house? Could it be some kind of residue from Walter Gibson's very powerful mind? We do know that some people can move objects, even bend spoons and keys, with the power of their minds alone. Mental telepathy is now a tested and verified phenomenon. And about 10 percent of the population have the ability to see above and beyond the narrow spectrum of visible light. They can see radiations and even objects invisible to the rest of us. A very large part of the UFO lore is, in fact, based upon the observations of such people. What seems normal to them seems abnormal, even ridiculous, to the rest of us. People who see ghosts or the wandering Shadow have these abilities. They are peering at forms that are always there, always present around us like radio waves, and when certain conditions exist they can see these things. The Tibetans believe that advanced human minds can manipulate these invisible energies into visible forms called tulpas, or thought projections. Did Walter Gibson's intense concentration on his Shadow novels inadvertently bring a tulpa into existence?

Readers of occult literature know there are innumerable cases of ghosts haunting a particular site year after year, century after century, carrying out the same mindless activities endlessly. Build a house on such a site and the ghost will leave locked doors ajar as it marches through to carry out its programed activity. Could these ghosts really be tulpas, residues of powerful minds like the phantom in the broad-brimmed hat?

Next, consider this. UFO activity is concentrated in the same areas year after year. In the Ohio valley, they show a penchant for the ancient Indian mounds which stand throughout the area. Could some UFOs be mere tulpas created by a long forgotten people and doomed forever to senseless maneuvers in the night skies?

[Btw, I'm still in the middle of moving, so haven't been around much. Also my scalp tingled shortly before coming across your post and deciding to reply. Likely a scan done on me since your post opened a high probability of a response from me].

Fore
10-15-2012, 10:46 AM
So what it comes down to is this… if we were to follow this line of logic, we can surmise that in reality, G-d does NOT need us to sustain him because there is no separation between G-d and ourselves in the first place. IOW, we are all ONE.I tend to believe that God does not need us as he was the one who created us all.

So how can a being BE before us, and yet still require us? Does that make rational sense?

If God kills off 99% of the human population through a doomsday even't, does God suddenly find himself weakly stumbling across the universe after the fact? What about before we ever "were"? (Same story)

I would propose the idea that we are like sparks off a flame. We become seperated from the flame and quickly burn out. For some of us, it is before we even hit the floor.

-------------------------------

1) Therefore, I propose that we are not ourselves God. We only have an ancestry (a link) to God through our connection to life. (a sort of bond of heritage)
2) Further than this, I propose the idea/concept that we are a separate living entity from God having only inherited his likeness and not the full package. We err, then fall apart on our own.
3) Finally, I propose the idea that to rejoin the flame we need to approach God as a universal stabilizing force to actually know God as it is and not as we want it to be in our conceptions as human beings.

=========================

I propose the idea that malevolent entities come in all shapes and sizes. (and appearances)
I propose most of them know the actual truth and try to confuse people into thinking otherwise with evil intention.

They usually try (usually successfully it seems) to convince the ignorant of these above points that:

1) They are God OR the individual being spoken to is [an active part] of God. That God (or parts therein) can do no wrong.

Alot of people like that pitch it seems. It wins people over when you tell them they are something greater when all evidence shows they are (clearly) not.

2) They are connected to God, (half truth) and an individual can and should self determine/decide on their own what is best as an acting fragment of God. (which supposedly can do no wrong...contrary to ample evidence)

3) That they don't need to know God, they just need to know what is in their Gut....which the malevolent entity will usually mess with that persons internals until they believe anything and everything. (The floated idea of self-KNOWING is one of their best ideas)

==========================

Through these three (proposed) falsehoods, malevolent entities can separate, confuse and ultimately contradict the actual God whom put everything in motion and will still be here long after we all cease to exist.

These are "Mind Manglers" from closer to home. Just scanning an individual you can pick up the numerous stains in their field if they have been close to these malevolent characters for some time. Chances are, if you believe in the latter 3 points you have probably either met a malevolent and hear them floating the idea to you in person or have read material designed and disseminated through one of their human proxies. Either by books, or mass media.

Neuru
10-26-2012, 01:36 PM
@montalk: As regards the Philip Experiment:

At 6:08 the narrator says the experiment's participants spenth months together getting to know each other. Speculation: even though the narrator says that during this period no results were obtained, this period could have helped these people form what Fore calls "Lines of Association." In the end, the results they obtained after changing their strategy might have not occurred at all had it not been for this "dry spell."

While a TV documentary isn't something I'd call convincing, Philip does sound like a shared, co-created tulpa. What's interesting is its alleged capability for ESP. The kind of "tulpae"* that the successful members of the Tulpa.Info site have created are not ESP-capable at all which is what leads me to think that their form of "tulpa" is actually a modification of the lower, biological mind and not a psi construct.**

At 8:06 the narrator says Philip became more "enterprising" as time passed. One of the most important points in the Tulpa.Info guides is that a tulpa (their version) feeds off attention. The most lengthy stage of the tulpa creation process is what they call "narration". It means you focus your attention on the notion of the tulpa throughout the day (like you would pay attention to someone who was by your side) and you talk to him/her about what you're currently doing, or just tell him/her about anything you're thinking about. The only important point is to never play their part, just wait until they answer. This process is said to directly lead to sentience, typically after 2 weeks to about a month of doing narration daily. But in some cases if you withhold attention even for a day during this process the tulpa will probably be traumatized. It is generally agreed upon in their community, though, that this trauma is remediable.

---

The passage about Walter Gibson you quoted is what is most interesting to me. In addition to existing theories (among which is the footage being fake), one possible explanation for the stick creatures in this thread (http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?911-Strange-Alien-Stick-like-creatures-caught-on-security-camera) could be that they are psi constructs created long ago.

---
*: They intentionally spell the plural form of "tulpa" this way to distinguish their phenomenon from the mystical/metaphysical understanding of a tulpa.
**: i.e. not any more than the lower mind itself is a psi construct. So I speculate that a "tulpae" tulpa is created inside the lower mind.

A99
10-26-2012, 09:27 PM
As the saying goes, “We are all spirits having a human experience”.

For some, the spirit of their incarnate selves are able to do psychokinesis without assistance from other spirits be they incarnate or discarnate.

On the other hand though, they may in fact be getting help from spirits from other realms but they themselves may not be aware of that especially if they are not psychic mediums and are unable to detect spirits.

In the Phillip Experiment, you have a group of people and because we are all spirits… you also had a group of spirits in that room too.
But supposing that group never conjured up a fictitious spirit from their own imagination, and instead skipped that part and focused as a group using that groups intention on say… having the table that they are sitting in front of levitate.
Depending on the collective strength of the spirit versions of each person in the room, if that collective strength of that intention is strong enough, the table will levitate.

Parapsychologists will say that the table levitated via the collective psi-power/mind power of the group. But this is not entirely correct because what it really is is the power of our spirit versions of ourselves working on a collective level via intention that levitated that table.
But because the spirit world co-exists with our own, we will never know if other spirits who were in that room also helped to levitate that table. At least not in this case because none in that groups claimed to be psychic mediums. So none in that group were able to sense, see, hear or feel the presence of any spirits in that room whereas if they were psychic, they would know if other spirits helped out.

But in any case, this group dreamed up a fictitious spirit and called him Phillip. Then they held séances and invoked his name. Yet, even though Phillip was a non-entity and completely fictitious, they still ended up getting some amazing psychokinetic results that they attributed to the mind power of the group because after all, Phillip was not real.

So, to them, this proved that any psychokinetic results that occur at séances are not as the result of a spirit doing that… but from their own collective psi/mind power be it conscious or unconscious.
But in reality, it was not their mind power that resulted in those psi effects… it was the collective strength of their spirit power as each and every one of those participants were spirits too.

But it also should be noted that because we are surrounded by the spirit world, other spirits other than themselves were in that room too who may have helped to levitate that table. None of them were psychic enough to able to tell if other spirits who were with them were helping them with that.
So, because none of them could detect spirits, they would never know if the physical phenomena that occurred at those séances was from their own spiritual power alone working on a collective level as a group or if it was just a spirit from the non-physical realm who was posing as Phillip who was also working with the spiritual energy from the group to cause those types of physical phenomena that occurred during their séances. All spirits from the non-physical realms are able to read our minds and answer questions posed to them correctly because of this.
But the bottom line is, our bodies are nothing more than containers for our spiritual body. Our higher mind is the etheric mind of our spirit self --- we are all spirits…. and are not just physical beings. Such things as psychokinesis does not come from our physical “minds“… it comes from our spirit self.

Most of those who are psychic mediums are able to get information from those realms outside our physical either directly via our etheric self or indirectly via information from a spirit whose main locale is in the non-physical realms. Most psychic mediums get information from both. Others, like Edgar Cayce, usually got his information from this own higher self… his own spirit self. The medium John Edward on the other hand gets his information directly from those spirits he contacts or who contact him. But sometimes he gets precognitive information directly and not from any particular spirit. Both had/have a very high level of accuracy. Some work also with a guardian in addition to direct spirit contact. Some martial arts traditions invoke various spirits to effect various results… The fact is, everybody is different and as one mentor told me, “if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it”…. if it’s working for you then that’s all that matters. Whatever method you are using and you are getting successful results with it, then you are doing it the way you were meant to be doing it. If you are not getting any results at all… that’s when you need to find another way to do it.

What I find odd is for someone who has reams and reams pages of ongoing communication from a transdimenstional being who then has the nerve to criticize anyone’s precognitive information as “less” or inferior” in some way because they got it from another interdimensional being of another sort and not from what he defines as ones “higher mind”.
Somehow he thinks he’s exempt from that criticism even though he’s getting information from the same “place”… the non-physical realm and from a similar source, a non-physical being.
All beings from those other realms be they ETs, UTs or human discarnates each have their own form of technology on their end when communicating to us and in their materializations at various densities.
At any rate, such double-standards on that issue has not gone unnoticed.... sheesh!

All forms of psi are from spirits be they from our own spirit self or from other spirits with us or both.

montalk
10-28-2012, 01:42 AM
The kind of "tulpae"* that the successful members of the Tulpa.Info site have created are not ESP-capable at all which is what leads me to think that their form of "tulpa" is actually a modification of the lower, biological mind and not a psi construct.**

That site takes a pretty materialistic view of the subject, saying it's all in your head. If that were true, then how come you can create a tulpa that influences another person who doesn't even know about it? Either what the tulpa.info authors have in mind is not actually a true etheric thoughtform, or else it is indeed one, but their methodology and limiting beliefs program it into acting as if it were just a psychological projection. Tulpas aren't just contoured chunks of the subconscious, unless you redefine the subconscious as being a tangible field of subtle energy permeating and surrounding you (basically the soul).

Anyway, I'm thinking for a thoughtform to manifest physically, you just need more and better structured energy. We create weak thoughtforms everyday, but they don't rattle tables. Extra is needed. Like how poltergeist is associated with puberty, as if the phenomena were feeding off the heightened energy being emitted and thus creating enough coherence to break through into physicality.

In the Philip experiment, nothing happened until they changed strategy and switched away from a rigid, formal, clinical setting to a more loose and celebratory setting, then the paranormal activities began. "They dimmed the room's lights, sat around a table, sang songs and surrounded themselves with pictures of the type of castle they imagined Philip would have lived in, as well as objects from that time period." (source (http://paranormal.about.com/od/ghosthuntinggeninfo/a/create-a-ghost.htm)). That was the key. [Just had an image of David dancing before the Ark come to mind].

Another possibility, it took that long for some non-human entity to come across and begin wearing the Philip thoughtform as a costume and assume its identity. I read Rudolf Steiner talking about how in Asia, such entities can retrieve and wear the cast-off etheric bodies of the deceased, in order to hang around that person's descendants and bask in the ancestor worship.

A99
10-28-2012, 02:33 AM
Researchers and practitioners in spirit contact, for the most part, do not seem to view poltergeists as thoughtforms or mere "energy" or whatever .... the most accepted POV on the poltergeist phenomenon is that they are low level earthbound entities of the human discarnate kind and other intelligences that many call demons or the djinn.

There's a whole vast archive of information on this phenomenon that goes back centuries.

It's very well documented that the poltergeist entity behaves with much intelligence and intention that's seen in all spirit encounters... only in this case, the poltergeist ones are malevolent.

Contempraneous poltergeists incidents that have been presented on tv shows dealing with the paranormal have pointed this out clearly via those interiews of the "target" and those witnesses who were there in any given incident.

A99
10-28-2012, 04:47 AM
Another possibility, it took that long for some non-human entity to come across and begin wearing the Philip thoughtform as a costume and assume its identity
Montalk, I do not think that is a possibility. But you do have a good imagination though and I will definitely give you credit for that!
Going by your belief or consideration that Phillip is a thoughtform ... are you saying that thoughtforms also cast-off their etheric shells too just like deceased humans do? Do thoughtforms have souls?
There would be no cast-off of an etheric shell for a rogue spirit to take over in the first place in the case of "Phillip".IMHO. I think you understand why that is.

In my view, a spirit did in fact come in and was posing as Phillip in that experiment but not in that manner as you explained in your comment that I quoted here and what you said Steiner said about what those ancestor worshipers in Asia ...

It's not uncommon at all when a spirit comes in claiming to be someone else when in fact he's only an imposter and they are called the "mimickers". All spirits can read our minds to be able to anwer questions that will confirm that they are who they say they are but it's up to the medium's guardian and other spirits who they are in contact with all the time to tell them that in fact the spirit that says he is so and so is in fact an imposter. This is what is called being able to discern spirits.

montalk
10-28-2012, 06:28 AM
Montalk, I do not think that is a possibility. But you do have a good imagination though and I will definitely give you credit for that!
Going by your belief or consideration that Phillip is a thoughtform ... are you saying that thoughtforms also cast-off their etheric shells too just like deceased humans do? Do thoughtforms have souls?
There would be no cast-off of an etheric shell for a rogue spirit to take over in the first place in the case of "Phillip".IMHO. I think you understand why that is.

No, I believe that thoughtforms basically *are* etheric shells already. The more advanced ones have an astral layer to their makeup as well, but that just makes them [etheric+astral] shells.

Traditionally, the astral body is said to be where drives, passions, and impressions arise. So a thoughtform with some astral energies will appear outwardly sentient. Just like how it's said that the average plant only has an etheric body, while the average animal has both etheric and astral. A tuft of grass doesn't have much sentience compared to a squirrel or bird. Again, the astral seems to be the starting point for rudimentary sentience.

Whereas a sentient thoughtform = [astral+etheric], a healthy human = body+[astral+etheric]+spirit. By 'spirit' I mean the spiritual core of our being where true freewill, higher consciousness, and deep self-awareness originate. (THIS TERM MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR USE OF THE TERM SPIRIT, so beware of possible semantic misunderstandings between us).

In humans, the [astral+etheric] is nothing but the 'soul', meaning the intermediate layers that bind the spirit to the body. When a person dies, first the spirit and soul leave the body together. Eventually the spirit casts off the soul (which becomes the empty shell) and enters alone into the light to disappear from spacetime completely.

But --- if a thoughtform is also made of [etheric+astral], then thoughtforms are like disembodied souls without a spirit. Or alternately, souls are essentially thoughtforms used by spirit to operate the body and pass body sensations to the spirit.

Hence, be it thoughtforms created by a group, or soul shells cast off by the dead, both are nonphysical constructs that theoretically could be puppeteered by some entity. In the case of living humans, it's puppeteered (or rather "ridden") by the spirit.

But if the spirit is gone, something else can take it over. As it stands, entities can already possess living but weakened humans by displacing the spirit and taking control of the soul-body complex. So what says they can't possess thoughtforms or soul shells too?

A99
10-28-2012, 06:51 AM
Wow! That's a great answer! Let me chew on this for awhile. Thanks for your patience too!

lycaeus
01-01-2013, 12:21 PM
My ex girlfriend said that she had sex with a reptilian in a dream. She had never been interested in alien books, so I doubt the only possibility was that she was making it up. She said that she actuallyenjoyed it, that it was "really good". I thought that her being from Finland had something to do with it. Maybe they are more attracted to nordic genes"?

The alien rape story brought up by Neuru indicates that the alien nordics who raped the woman were strongly associated with Germany and admired the country.

montalk
02-22-2013, 06:20 AM
Related threads:

DEMONIC or ET any first hand ENCOUNTERS? (http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?343-DEMONIC-or-ET-any-first-hand-ENCOUNTERS)

The Story of "The Fallen" UT? - The Discussion Begins (http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?1138-The-Story-of-quot-The-Fallen-quot-UT-The-Discussion-Begins)

---

My current conclusion is that there exist aliens, demons, aliens possessed by demons, and demons who mimic aliens. That's the only way I can account for all the data. If humans can be possessed by demons, why not aliens? If demons and negs can induce hallucinations, then why not disguise themselves as aliens sometimes (or the Virgin Mary, or Archangel Michael, or Sananda, or Ashtar or whomever). All these things are possible.

I don't believe all aliens are demons in disguise because aliens and demons have different methodologies, goals, and metaphysical signatures. When a demon mimics and alien, it can do it in certain superficial ways, but not in all ways. It can't make a ship with reverse-engineerable technology fall out of the sky, at least not the demons some of us regularly encounter today.

I mean, if you had to adopt the Biblical approach to alienology, then you would have to admit that some reported aliens are actually angels, since some Nordic encounters are identical to the Biblical anecdotes about the Sons of Man, and the Sons of Man were not demons but messengers of God. But those who have personal experience know that aliens and angels are different classes of beings too. Thus demons and aliens should also be different.

However, there are intersections or overlaps. I drew up a list of typical traits of the different categories. Here they are.

Aliens
- can give advanced technology and scientific knowledge to human elite groups
- can hybridize their DNA with human DNA, thus they have DNA.
- have ships that crash or can get shot down, tracked on radar if they so desire, videotaped.
- bodies allegedly recovered
- multiple eyewitnesses of sightings, abductions
- physical traces left on the ground. Burns, radiation, flattened grass, etc.
- known to engage in aerial dogfights, battles, ships on fire, crashing, explosions, smoke, etc.
- divided into various political groups, divisions, factions
- have a certain psychic signature unique to aliens
- carve out bases underground, underwater, inside mountains, some fully physical.
- have left behind relic alien technology (ark of the covenant, grail, ancient aliens stuff, etc.)
- some can walk among us undetected, fully physical, normal acting.
- some use technology like blue beams to phase/levitate
- abductions have a long-term strategic point.
- abductions or visitations can teach ethics, psychic skills, healing abilities, survival knowledge, PR training, etc.

Aliens Possibly Possessed by Demons
- can engage in physical abductions
- can perform physical rapes, with trace material left behind
- have technology, ships
- technology seems cruder, ships not clean and well lit
- abductions appear to have no long-term strategy, rather they are charades for sadistic torture
- they are opportunists, seem to prey on the gullible, spiritually exhausted, or the openly inviting.
- seem to mostly be reptilians,
- can't walk among us without sticking out, and use remote human-like avatars that don't seem well put together
- may be associated with Men In Black
- multiple eyewitnesses, physical evidence

Demons Mimicking Aliens
- can appear gray or reptilian
- nonphysical
- use the methodology of demons/negs: hover around, psychically interface, induce hallucinations
- no third party witnesses or video, whole scenarios play out inside the mind of the victim
- no physical traces beyond what ghosts can do: blow out light bulbs and electronics, poltergeist, show up as smoke on film, etc.
- opportunistic, sadistic, feed a bunch of B.S. for the sole purpose of getting a kick out of running a victim ragged
- seem focused on control, ownership, turning victim into a pet toy or parasitic host
- same demon-like methodology dressed up under various background stories/scenarios: not always alien, sometimes religious or whatever works
- the alien aspect of them seems borrowed or poorly mimicked. No underlying realness or technological self-consistency, as made up as that of a hoaxer.
- have a non-alien psychic signature.

Demons (when witnesses in their true form)
- no reported use of technology, devices, clothing
- blackish or dark brown nonphysical body, shadow beings.
- no DNA traces, hair, semen samples from demon rapes (unlike humanoid alien ones)
- can create physical bruising and cysts via psychic means, but not implantation of technological implants
- don't employ flying ships, except when seen that way via psychically induced hallucination. Such 'ships' don't impact physical environment.
- not known to be divided into opposing factions with complicated political tensions between them
- non-alien psychic signature
- no physical body of a demon has ever been found, examined, or reported
- don't use blue beam technology during encounters
- don't take the physical body of the victim anywhere, maybe just snatch the soul away at best.
- aim for contact, control, and ultimately direct and full possession.

--

None of this rules out the idea that aliens and demons (or fallen angels) aren't related in the distant past. They could be. That idea is more sophisticated and in line with the data points, than the popular one that aliens are identically demons.

A99
03-07-2013, 05:37 PM
I have great interest in this topic....
Another category wrt who and what some of our ‘visitors’ are may fall into the Alien Disincarnate category.
Alien Disincarnates

It may very well be that those highly evolved aliens who have passed over (died) into those other realms were/are not only more highly technologically evolved than we are but also much more evolved on an evolutionary scale in terms of ‘consciousness‘.

Because of this, they were able to penetrate dimensional barriers even while they were living in the physical but, once they passed over, they still retained those abilities.

In fact, their existence in those non-physical realms most likely have resulted in enhancing those abilities they had due to the advanced level of consciousness they already possessed while in the physical.

From an apologetics view point, supposing they dwell in those realms that are closer to our own physical realm as opposed to dwelling in those highly spiritual ones. And supposing many also dwell on those lowest realms that are also populated by demons. This could mean that those who choose to dwell on the same realms with demons are themselves demonic even though they are not in the same category as what we qualify as ‘demons’ and are in a separate entity category.

But supposing other ones dwell in those higher realms that are not populated by demons. Which would mean that those demonic influences are not as strong as they are in the lower realms. This would mean, from an apologetics viewpoint, that they are more spiritually/ethically evolved than those in those realms that are beneath it too.

So to say that all disincarnate aliens are demonic would be incorrect because some DO dwell on those non-physical realms that are of a higher spiritual nature/status/rank. The same is said for those human disincarnates that have not ‘gone’ into the light yet and still choose to roam in those lower realms. It is known that even though there are demonic type human disincarnates, most of them are not demonic and depending on ones chosen religion, there are a variety of explanations on why those human disincarnates have not moved on into the ‘light’... the highest realms. Roman Catholics, for example, call it purgatory.

Note: Of course, I’m only using the ‘layered cake’ type model for all of this only for the sake of simplicity but in actuality it’s much more complicated than this. A better starting point would be to consider the
Mandelbrot set (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set) model instead.

In summary. Ostensibly, not only do some alien groups have a more evolved consciousness than ourselves and others but because they may also be highly advanced technologically too, they may have been able to merge the two while in the physical. This also allowed them to more easily segue their own technology into those other realms after they passed over too. Hence why maybe they are in fact using an etheric based conscousness assisted technology to manifest into our physical world in various ways too.

Here’s what we do know.
There is an after-life and humans transit over into that realm where some are able to even communicate and manifest into our physical realm in certain conditions. The main one having to do with that stochastic resonance that exists between the incarnate human receiver and the human disincarnate.

But just because a physical being is not from our planet does not mean that they too do not transit over into an afterlife just like humans do.
Therefore, for the sake of a more comprehensive overview on who and what some of our ‘vistor’s are, we should consider that many of those aliens who are out there are in fact of the alien disincarnate type that I discussed in this post and those implications that are inherent when presented with such realities

lycaeus
03-10-2013, 06:23 PM
A99, it's good you brought up the out-of-body aspect of the alien presence. I think you could also throw into the mix the possibility of aliens using astral projection as well, while their physical bodies are safe in their ship or base or wherever. A lot of sources say that certain aliens, esp. the reps., have a hard time maintaining a physical form in our reality and need blood to ground them. And if they originate from a 'lower' density or dimension, as it's said, it takes them a lot of energy to move on up into our world, where the higher and lower, less-physical realms intersect. Maybe their alien bodies are incompatible with our environment and are fatally susceptible to germs, pollution and viruses that we're used to. Hence the need to go out-of-body, possess humans or create more compatible hybrid bodies. I don't know if they would be astral traveling from a physical body in our realm, or using an avatar from the '4th dimension' to enter our world, but the idea of them interacting with us while they're in an out-of-body state might explain some of the 'paranormal' aspects of their presence. Then again it could just be advanced technology that lets them pass through walls and turn into sparks of light and disappear. It's obviously a hard, complicated subject to understand.

montalk
03-11-2013, 04:04 AM
Alien Disincarnates makes sense. As long as an alien isn't simply a machine, its nonphysical part ought to survive after death.

In the case of humans, after death the etheric and astral bodies (using occult terminology) undergo progressive disintegration due to lack of energy and cohesion. That is, unless it can siphon energy from the living, then you have certain types of ghosts and phantoms. So for us there's an advantage to having a body: you are anchored to something that keeps your soul together, energized, and actively engaged in the physical.

I'm sure a being could evolve to the point where it wouldn't need a body anymore, where it has sufficient energy and cohesion to do just fine without. So-called "fifth density beings" are of that order. But from what I can determine, they don't really hang out in the physical domain.

An alien disincarnate would have some disadvantages concerning access to physicality, of having the solidity required to carry out big operations with respect to physical beings like humans. I'm talking about bombing cities like Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible, transferring working alien devices to black ops military, and levitating someone out through a closed window.

If an alien is just a disincarnate ghost being, sure it could come through a wall, but it wouldn't be able to dematerialize the abductee through the wall. So abductions where blue beams are involved, people being carried through closed windows and such, are probably physical or quasi-physical aliens.

But you're right, where do all the dead aliens go... do they just hang out in alien heaven enjoying the weather, or do they continue what they were doing while physical. I'd imagine that even while physical, the doorway to death may have been more like a doggy door, where they can leave and re-enter their body at will. Astral projection ought to be really easy for them.

Fore
03-11-2013, 04:36 AM
Alien Disincarnates makes sense. As long as an alien isn't simply a machine, its nonphysical part ought to survive after death.

In the case of humans, after death the etheric and astral bodies (using occult terminology) undergo progressive disintegration due to lack of energy and cohesion. That is, unless it can siphon energy from the living, then you have certain types of ghosts and phantoms. So for us there's an advantage to having a body: you are anchored to something that keeps your soul together, energized, and actively engaged in the physical. I wanted to mention if you ever write another book, that would be an interesting subject to cover.

I also wanted to pass by you an idea. It is said in some material online (somewhere?) that Greys tend to bathe themselves "in nutrients" as a means of sustenance and exuding their "waste products".

I wonder,

IF some Greys are just an Artificial Intelligence made of a biological host body and a crafted artificial intelligence....how would they continue to "operate" if they have extremely high field output? Do they, like a natural human being, generate their own field naturally?

(Open Disclosure: I am being rhetorical as well as seeding a topic in case anyone wonders.)

Assuming they (some artificial Greys) are in actuality some kind of artificial intelligence wrapped in biological skin...Do they perhaps have no genuine soul components? Perhaps an artificial being with just the artificial...non-physical....consciousness matrix embedded in it's skull?

Would it be needing to recharge it's influence by absorbing it in a bath from natural by products?? Perhaps natural influence created in say... in cow blood?

(Is that why the occult always does wierd animal sacrifices or rituals with blood?)

Do artificial biological beings without a supernatural soul require a recharge?

------------------------

Is this perhaps the reason for older beliefs and religions hosting animal and human sacrifices for the purposes of providing sustenance to some supernatural entity?

I recall you wrote an enlightening article on that Montalk. I wanted to see what you thought of this. I have also seen a few bits and pieces online articles where people claim they see Reptilians sucking influence out of living beings or eating meat from human beings and animals.

---------------------

Here is another conundrum that came to me just now. If the spiritual disembodied types exist and specifically require living influence to keep recharging their presence.

Why haven't the more intelligent and malevolent among them built up a factory floor of biological mass that can feed them an infinite supply?

I don't mean like normal ghosts and stuff, I mean like high-end malevolent supernatural creatures. Why do they rely on human beings for farming living influence when they could take over a small group of individuals and with their advanced knowledge build themselves a large farm of living individuals in a controlled environment.

Why farm influence from crazy conditions like the real world. Where things can be a hit or miss? Does that make sense?

Or is there something special of living influence that cannot be reproduced so easily?

Fore
03-11-2013, 04:48 AM
I recall that ScarZ once told me that a SPIRIT is like a power chord to God. When we die, the cord unplugs and returns to the Source. But the remaining parts of the individual continues until they run out of [influence] power.

Perhaps that is what the disembodied do all day, they collect spiritual influence to keep sustaining their presence.

-------------------

I have long been wondering what cattle mutilations are about and why the relate to the ET phenomena.

I wonder if the whole sacrifice of living things is unwittingly about some disembodied entity continually recharging.

Or

Perhaps if artificial creations are made...even if they operate with seeming intelligence, they lack the essential power plug of a genuine spirit....?

I wonder if they have to keep recharging the proverbial drones?

-------------------

Think about this, if the ET could generate limitless influence from artificial creations, why wouldn't it ever occur to normal spiritual entities to get their hands on such beings and start siphoning off their copious quantities of influence?

Why go after a human being who is incredibly weak in emitting influence. Why not go after the powerful emissions coming off of other biological beings like the ET?

Fore
03-11-2013, 05:20 AM
I recall that ScarZ once told me that a SPIRIT is like a power chord to God. When we die, the cord unplugs and returns to the Source. But the remaining parts of the individual continues until they run out of [influence] power.

Perhaps that is what the disembodied do all day, they collect spiritual influence to keep sustaining their presence.

Which brings me to another interesting point. I have always noticed that the HOE (Higher Order Entities/Angels) don't have the same configuration as either human beings nor the ET.

They seem to be emitting a strong range of living influence that is of a very high quality. Yet, it repels malevolent entities of the spiritual kind. I have seen no effect on ET to be honest.

The thing that confuses me about the HOE is that when you scan them psychically they have a very strange configuration. They register as a living being. Unlike the other spiritually dead, they don't have "dead patterns" associated with any ghosts, phantoms or demons.

They are a spiritual entity but they register as possessing a rather strange body that is surrounded by a "live wire" of living energy...along with the strangest structures around them that resemble my own EFM structures.

It is like they are alive like me, but they have a different kind of....body.

--------------------------
I realized long ago that in Christianity human beings strive to gain a gift of "eternal life". As in they are trying to gain a new SPIRIT that is "clean" and....a new body....that lives "perpetually".

So I wonder....if the ET die....then aren't they like us? (?)

Who then are the HOE relative to them? And why do the ET always seem to bash the HOE in so many varied accounts?

Aren't they seemingly missing that special feature that the HOE seem to posses? Why?

It is obvious that Demons, Phantoms and ghosts are missing such a "supernatural" body. The ET certainly don't emit or even posses such a configuration.

------------------------

I have been wondering, If these HOE come from this dimension that we call "Eternity" and there are other kinds of life forms there as well.

Then...perhaps our popular assumptions on universal existence is really far off the mark. Perhaps there is no reincarnation. Perhaps there is no evolutionary process among the stars. Perhaps the universe is empty save for us and a few offshoot ETs [and the fallen UT] trying to cling to life in and around the only spot in the universe that life exists.

Popular theories abound say that life should be present in the universe...yet there is so far no "far away evidence" that this is the case. The only things we know of as ET life are the visitors we meet in very close proximity to the Earth.

And these strangers die....like us.

So what if there is no slow crawl up in evolution and space faring races across the cosmos? What if the circumstances surrounding our existence is different than what we assume?

What if there are other life forms but they exist in dimensions we have never visited and exist perpetually in peace (except the castouts: the fallen UT and ET).

What if the whole effort is to confuse a bunch of descendants of outcasts from Eternity....present in greater numbers and unaware of iour origins? Trying to convince humanity the universe is more like modern pop-culture assumes it to be?

montalk
03-11-2013, 08:17 AM
I wanted to mention if you ever write another book, that would be an interesting subject to cover.

Good idea, added that to my book 'to do' list.


IF some Greys are just an Artificial Intelligence made of a biological host body and a crafted artificial intelligence....how would they continue to "operate" if they have extremely high field output? Do they, like a natural human being, generate their own field naturally?

Maybe they generate their own field but it's not all that natural, hence why it's so incompatible with our own field... why it might make you sick... and why some abductees have mentioned feeling an extreme "wrongness" about them. Like a sickening fluorescent light versus the sun.

Another possibility: their high output is remotely pumped through them by a central, sentient, living alien. Perhaps the same one coordinating their operation. In that case, they'd be no different from your arm relative to you. If some psychic saw just your hand pumping out all that influence, they'd wonder how a lowly hand could do it. But of course, it's connected to the rest of you.

If they are just tulpas married to a biological body, then sure they'd need to be recharged from time to time. As you brought up, that might tie into cattle mutilations. (By the way, I have a morbid theory that they resort to cattle only when they're running short on human stock, hence why cattle mutes aren't consistent, but sporadic, and since cows aren't as 'useable' as humans, that's why most of the animal is left behind).


Do artificial biological beings without a supernatural soul require a recharge?

You know that plants, trees, fungi, bacteria, and perhaps crystals emit an influence field. So it doesn't take anything truly 'higher' to output a basic field. It may be weak in those cases, but consider that if the philosopher's stone exists, then that's an example of a mineral-like substance that has a pretty strong output, even though it's just a substance. So if Grays are rudimentary beings, it's conceivable they can similarly have a high output.

Though as I mentioned, whatever they're putting out is very strange and icky to humans. For all I know, they're running on the soul energies collected from dying people. Wouldn't that be something. Do Greys have the "dead" pattern that demons and phantoms have?


Is this perhaps the reason for older beliefs and religions hosting animal and human sacrifices for the purposes of providing sustenance to some supernatural entity?

I believe so. I was re-reading parts of the Old Testament recently, and what the Israelites allegedly did for Yahweh (blood blood and more blood) would fit that. We talked about how eating meat might interfere with our connection to HOEs. Well, the Israelites were pouring animal blood onto altars, slaughtering whole cities including all children and cattle, and as part of their worship were burning carcasses whose smoke was 'pleasing to their Lord.' So whatever they were worshipping (at the time) just doesn't square with what's known about the benevolent HOEs.


I don't mean like normal ghosts and stuff, I mean like high-end malevolent supernatural creatures. Why do they rely on human beings for farming living influence when they could take over a small group of individuals and with their advanced knowledge build themselves a large farm of living individuals in a controlled environment.

Why farm influence from crazy conditions like the real world. Where things can be a hit or miss? Does that make sense?

One possibility: it could be like the fish industry. Sure there are farmed fish, but the ocean's pretty big too. Hit and miss to catch, but there's plenty to be had. Lower success rate more than made up for by the numbers.

More seriously though, if such a high-end supernatural being wanted a farm, it would need physical henchmen and technology to grow and round up humans, feed them, and keep them going and producing influence. That's the first obstacle, obtaining a deep enough foot-hold in the physical plane to do such a thing. Given enough time, it could be done. And perhaps it has been done. Maybe Earth is that farm (or just one of many).

montalk
03-11-2013, 08:18 AM
There's another possible reason. Back in August 2008 I wrote a post on OMF about "galactic finance" -- basically the idea of an influence economy among alien and nonphysical beings, with Earth serving as an energy farm. I posted a couple excerpts, the second one from Robert Monroe, who during an astral projection adventure was given a mental download (telepathic transfer) of the origins of our civilization. Long story short, certain conditions are needed to produce the highest quality/quantity of "loosh" as he called it, and the kind of controlled farm you have in mind may not be ideal.

I'll repost the excerpts here, they're interesting.


Here are two excerpts, the first from Dr William Baldwin's book "CEVI: Close Encounters of the Possession Kind" and the other from Robert Monroe's book "Far Journeys"

Clients have discovered not only these attached ET technicians and their
equipment, but also unattended probes and other devices in various parts of the
anatomy and in the chakras, or energy centers of the body, both on themselves and
other family members. These probes are non-physical in nature yet connected in a
way which allows for transmission of information to the ET scientist's location.
The probe, or connector, may also allow the ET to remotely control some aspect
of the physiology or mental/emotional functioning of the person.

In an altered state, a client can visualize the probe, often a black cord, leading
to the ET laboratory. We direct the question to the alien researcher. This communi-
cation passes directly to the ETs along the attached connector, and the surprised
ET will answer through the voice mechanism of the client. This can be surprising
and distressing to the client, but with our assurance that the control is only tempo-
rary, and that many people have overcome this intrusion, most clients continue
with the dialogue.

The DFE (Dark Force Entity) Tank Farm

In one case, a middle aged woman discovered what appeared to be a conduit
attached in the area of the base of her spine. There was no pretense about research;
this was an energy pipeline sucking life force from her. As she traced the conduit in
her inner imagery, she found it extending far out in "space" to another location, a
small planet. The workers on that place were slow thinking, dull-witted beings who
attended the collection and storage stations for this life energy, huge "tank farms"
similar to those of petroleum refineries in our own land. This was their only job.
Similar conduits came in from all directions to this storage facility, from
countless beings living on many worlds. These workers received a small percentage
of the life force energy collected in this way as their compensation from a
powerful group of higher beings on another planet who controlled the operation.
They didn't seem to be aware of anything else.

Harvesting Energy

In another case, a woman wanted to explore past life therapy. There was no
specific problem area, she just wanted to experience the work. She only knew we
did regression therapy. We explained that it is the inner knowing self that directs the
session, and we don't lead a client into past lives. She was willing to explore
whatever emerged. As she scanned her body, she discovered a disruption of energy
in her abdomen, the solar plexus area. It seemed to be tight, and she felt a little
nauseous.

Dr. B.: "If that tight feeling could speak, what would it say, right now?"
C: "What do you want?"
Dr. B.: " What are you doing here?"
C: "Taking her energy."
Very straightforward, no subterfuge, no cover story.
Dr. B.: "Have you ever been human in your own physical body?"
C: "No."
Dr. B.: "What color is the light in your universe?"
C: "Orange."
Dr. B.: "What do you do with the energy?"
C: "Send it up to the Big Dark Ones."

There was no craft. There was no home planet. No subjugated ET civiliza-
tion. No intermediaries. These were energy draining DFEs who just hung out in an
orange light place. We have found that the red, orange, black, and sometimes dark
purple light locations seem to be domains of the DFEs. This band of intruders was
simply sucking energy from this woman and many other humans. The DFEs
responded to the process of transformation and were released.

We continued the session with soul fragmentation recovery. Her essence had
been slowly drained away. Most of this was recovered and reintegrated. The
woman felt weary yet peaceful and somehow more complete.

The late Robert Monroe, a former corporate executive, was a pioneer in
describing and publishing personal experience and research in the out-of-body
experience, the OOBE." He details his battles with entities he called "demons." In
some of his out-of-body excursions, he realizes there are "entities" riding him like
a child playfully rides horseyback astride the back of an adult. He describes one
OOBE in which he was manning an ancient pumping station with huge pipes
transporting something of much higher energy than oil, valuable and vitally needed
elsewhere. Is this life force energy siphoned from humans transported to other
places for use by opportunistic beings? We have found many such cases in clinical
practice.


=======================================

Robert Monroe, "Far Journeys" - p. 162-170 [I added words in brackets to clarify]


Someone, Somewhere (or both, in millions, or uncountable) requires,
likes, needs, values, collects, drinks, eats, or uses as a drug (sic) a substance
ident [called] Loosh. (Electricity, oil, oxygen, gold, wheat, water, land, old coins,
uranium.) This is a rare substance in Somewhere, and those who possess
Loosh find it vital for whatever it is used for.

Faced with this question of Supply and Demand (a universal law of
Somewhere), Someone decided to produce it artificially, so to speak,
rather than search for it in its "natural" form. He decided to build a
Garden and grow Loosh.

In the natural state, Loosh was found to originate from a series of
vibrational actions in the carbon-oxygen cycle and the residue was Loosh
in varying degrees of purity. It occurred only during such action, and
secondarily during the reactive process. Prospectors from Somewhere
ranged far and wide in search of Loosh sources and new discoveries were
hailed with much enthusiasm and reward.

So it was that Someone and his Garden changed all this. Far off, in a
remote area, he set to work on his experiment. First, he created a proper
environment for the carbon-oxygen cycle, where it would flourish. He
created a Balance with much care, so that proper radiation and other
nourishment would be in continuous supply.

He then tried his First Crop [primordial bacteria], which actually did
produce Loosh, but only in small quantities and of comparatively low grade,
not significant enough to take back to the heart of Somewhere. The problem
was twofold. The life period was too short and the crop units themselves were
too minute. This brought about limits in quality and quantity, as the crop had
no time to generate Loosh in such close tolerances. Moreover, the Loosh
could be harvested only at the moment of termination of the life span, not
one moment before.

[...] [skipping forward past creation of plants and animals] [...]

The Fourth Crop [animal/humanoid] exceeded all of Someone's expectations. It became
apparent that a consistent, useful flow of Loosh was being produced in the
Garden. The balance of "life" operated perfectly, with the Conflict Factor [violence]
producing immense amounts of Loosh and a steady supplement brought
into being by the constant life-span terminations from all types of Mobiles
and Stationaries. To handle the output, Someone set up Special Collectors
to aid in the harvest. He set up Channels to convey the raw Loosh from
his Garden to Somewhere. No longer did Somewhere depend principally
upon the "wild state" as the principal source of Loosh. The Garden of
Someone had ended that.

Someone, his work completed, returned to Somewhere and occupied
himself with other matters. Loosh production stayed at a constant level
under the supervision of the Collectors. The only alterations were ordered
by Someone himself. Under instructions from Someone, the Collectors
periodically harvested segments of the Fourth Crop. This was done to
ensure adequate chemicals, radiation, and other nourishment for the
younger, oncoming units. A secondary purpose was to provide occasional
extra amounts of Loosh created by such harvesting.

To reap such harvest, the Collectors generated storms of turbulence and
turmoil in both the gaseous envelope and the more solid chemical formations
that were the base of the Garden itself. Such upheavals had the
effect of terminating life spans of multitudes of the Fourth Crop as they
were crushed under the rolling base formation or smothered under waves
from the agitated liquid [water] area of the Garden. (By peculiarity of design,
Fourth Crop units could not maintain their carbon-oxygen cycle surrounded
by the liquid medium. [drowning])

With the success of the Garden and the production of Loosh by cultivated
means, Others began to design and build their Gardens. This was in
accordance with the Law of Supply and Demand (Vacuum is an unstable
condition), as the amounts of Loosh from Someone's Garden only partially
met the requirements of Somewhere. Collectors on behalf of the
Others actually entered the Garden of Someone to take advantage of
those small emanations.

Systematically, he hovered over the Garden, extending his perception
to all areas. Almost immediately, he found the source. High-order distilled
Loosh radiation was originating from one particular section of the Garden.
Quickly, he hurried to the spot.

[continued in next post]

montalk
03-11-2013, 08:19 AM
There it was—an experimental Modified Fourth Crop unit [modern human], one of
those that contained a Piece of Himself in its functional pattern. It was
standing alone under the leafy upper portion of a large Second Crop unit.
It was not "hungry." It was not in Conflict with another Fourth Crop
unit. It was not acting in defense of its "young." Then why did it emanate
distilled Loosh in such great quantity?

Someone moved closer. His perception entered into the Modified
Fourth Crop unit and then he knew. The unit was lonely! It was this
effect that produced distilled Loosh.

As Someone drew back, he noted another unusual inconsistency. The
Modified Fourth Crop unit suddenly had become aware of His Presence.
It had collapsed and was jerking in strange convulsions on the solid-base
formation [fear reaction, sobbing]. Clear liquid [tears] was being expelled from the
two radiation-perceiving orifices [eyes]. With this, the distilled Loosh emitted
became even more pronounced.

It was from this that Someone propounded his now famous DLP Formula,
which is in effect in the Garden at this time.

The balance of the story is well known. Someone included the fundamental
in his formula: ". . . The creation of pure, distilled Loosh is
brought forth in Type 4M units by the action of unfulfillment, but only if
such pattern is enacted at a vibratory level above the sensory bounds of
the environment [soul-based unfilfillment]. The greater the intensity of said
pattern, the greater the output of Loosh distillate. . . ."

To put the formula into effect, Someone designed subtle changes in his
Garden, all of them familiar to every historian. The splitting of all Crop
units into Halves [male and female] (to engender loneliness as they sought to reunite) and
the encouragement of dominance of the Type 4M unit are but two of the
most noteworthy innovations.

As it appears now, the Garden is a fascinating spectacle of efficiency.
The Collectors have long since become Masters at the Art of the DLP
Formula. Type 4M units dominate and have spread through the entire
Garden, with the exception of the deeper portions of the liquid medium [oceans].
These [humans] are the principal producers of Loosh distillate.

From experience, the Collectors have evolved an entire technology with
complementary tools for the harvesting of Loosh from the Type 4M units.
The most common have been named love, friendship, family, greed, hate,
pain, guilt, disease, pride, ambition, ownership, possession, sacrifice—and
on a larger scale, nations, provincialism, wars, famine, religion, machines,
freedom, industry, trade, to list a few. Loosh production is higher than
ever before ...

[...] I was closed tightly, turned inward, stunned. My first reaction was,
there had to be some mistake, this was not the story-history of earth, BB [entity
who told this story to Monroe] had it mixed up with some other port of call on
their cruise schedule. Yet as I ran the rote [telepathic information package] again,
the overlay of what little I knew of earth's zoological and human history was uncomfortably
accurate, albeit from another perspective. The food chain of earth's ecobiologic
system had been well established. Knowing this about Mother Nature, some
of the hard-core philosophic speculators had often pondered where the
human animal fit in the process. The downside was obvious, who ate us!
Before, it had been just that, speculation.



Just replace Collectors with "Fallen UT" and I think that might get us closer to the truth. If the UTs lost their connection with God, then they'd need a new source of energy.

Alright, if the above is true (even if metaphorical) then the way of life on this planet, with millions and billions of people living out their dramas, with all the associated spiritual anguish (not just physical) -- that may be what's needed to sustain such a farm. If you took 100 humans and put them in a controlled environment, it might fail due to lack of stimulation and high tension interaction. You can't just stick them in a pod under a comatose state either unless you're only going after low level life-force energy; if you want something further up on the spectrum perhaps you need to provide emotional/spiritual stimulation to get a corresponding emission.

That's another thing I wanted to talk with you about sometime. From what you've written so far, the role of emotions is absent in the paradigm you were taught. It's not a fault, it's an observation that I think has a very good reason for it. You can do all your EFM stuff and pass on structured commands without the need to invoke love or joy or anger, like some psychics believe they must employ. Personally I believe it's because you're making use of features/aspects of your lower-higher mind structure that don't require it, and those were the features you were taught by aliens who themselves aren't exactly bubbly sentimental beings.

However, we know that demons don't just hang around passively sucking up your physical energy. Sure, they can do that, but they go beyond that and try to induce real emotional, psychological, spiritual suffering. Enough that it gives them away sometimes, yet they risk it. I think it's because it creates a type of influence that they find more nourishing. Not just the quantity, but the quality of it. That's clue #1.

Clue #2 is the 'warmth' that you mentioned, and how getting on the good side of the HOEs requires a deep kind of integrity; methods of prayer from all religions require that you have a bit of love, devotion, awe, and humility toward the Creator and Creation. The more saintly or pure someone is, the more 'warmth' they exude, and the more of those kinds of higher spiritual feelings come naturally to them.

This, versus fake religious people or self-deceiving New Agers who go through the motions of having "higher vibrations" but either it's just self-induced endorphins (chemical high) or an ego-based giddiness, which is NOT the same as what a genuine saint might feel regarding the presence of God.

What's the difference? I think the latter involves feelings/patterns/energies that originate from some mysterious part of the higher mind complex, namely spirit itself. There's a lot of mystery about the higher mind structures, and most of your above posts seem to tie into that. And what do you observe about the ETs you've had experience with? That they don't have that warmth, they certainly don't have much use for those saintly feelings.

How much do you want to bet, that despite their powerful and well developed EFMs and higher mind structures, there are even higher parts of the higher mind complex that, in these ETs, is either absent or atrophied? And that as humans, despite our lacking most of the psychic-power-oriented influence structures that ETs have, that the higher "spirit" part of us might actually be more developed than some of these ETs?

ETs might make up for it with intellect and psychic power, but if you want to know why they haven't trained their "spirit" component all that much, what if it's because at some point they figured out that this was the only part they couldn't reliably manipulate for their selfish reasons? What if the only way to make use of that component, is if it's in accordance with the divine will?

Now, I find it possible and even likely, that there may exist ETs who did not take that route, that did not abandon the development of spirit, that didn't stray from the light of the Creator. Except you sure as heck wouldn't find them visiting you at night accompanied by a team of Grays. If they exist, then for many reasons they'd keep a very low profile and we wouldn't know much about them, or encounter them nearly as often as the negative ones.

I'll continue with your other post when I have more time.

lycaeus
03-11-2013, 04:46 PM
In the case of humans, after death the etheric and astral bodies (using occult terminology) undergo progressive disintegration due to lack of energy and cohesion. That is, unless it can siphon energy from the living, then you have certain types of ghosts and phantoms. So for us there's an advantage to having a body: you are anchored to something that keeps your soul together, energized, and actively engaged in the physical.
I'm guessing the evil, dead ones are afraid of moving on into judgment of their souls... I'm also interested in this line of research and would enjoy reading more of what you have to say about this stuff based on your 'exotic' esoteric research.


It is said in some material online (somewhere?) that Greys tend to bathe themselves "in nutrients" as a means of sustenance and exuding their "waste products".

It's probably akin to simply refueling a car. The mutilation of the living beings would produce a high amount of loosh/influence/etheric energy as well. That would be greedily lapped up by the ET who have gone against God's will, 'been cast out of heaven' and therefore aren't able to naturally produce spiritual nourishment for themselves. It's obvious they are evil (the one's we're talking about). If there are demons around possessing some of these entities then they benefit in their own way too. I'm leaning more towards the belief that these malevolent ET are possessed and controlled by demonic forces from a higher (or lower) realm.

The greys might use technology to enhance their 'influence' output, or psychic energy like how we use orgone generators to boost etheric energy around us. That might help with the technical aspects of psychic communication and manipulation. I think they are used as portals for the ET/demonic intelligence controlling them, like how a human with an attachment spiritually vampirizes people. If the greys are biological machines, a remote controlled vehicle, then they would just need physical nourishment, and the demonic/ET controlling them take the spiritual nourishment from humans.


Why do they rely on human beings for farming living influence when they could take over a small group of individuals and with their advanced knowledge build themselves a large farm of living individuals in a controlled environment.
A similar question was asked in the Cassiopaean transcripts and it turned out that there actually are places out there where humans are farmed like zoo animals with even less freedom than us, to be simply eaten. There's a spiritual tug-of-war in our lives so I think that higher positive forces help out behind the scenes to balance the evil in our world. Perhaps the reason we have the little freedom we have is because we have not explicitly expressed our intent to give up our values as spiritual human beings. We're getting there though, so the more we deny our spiritual natures as loving human beings, the more 'permission' we give to the energy feeders to tyrannize our world.

I agree with the basic energy-farm concept Montalk reminded us of. It's the best explanation I've heard. We all know it unconsciously and it comes out in pop-culture with all the zombie fanaticism and vampire and alien movies, especially lately. It seems something is cracking open our minds and everyone is dimly becoming aware of themselves and the world around them.


Why go after a human being who is incredibly weak in emitting influence. Why not go after the powerful emissions coming off of other biological beings like the ET? Maybe the ET are considerably skilled in the arts of psychic self defense and are no easy prey. Maybe the demonic attachment (theoretically) controlling them makes sure no other spiritual vampires get a bite of 'their food'; they mark their property and fend off others from feeding on their host, and the loosh they gather. If ET's are psychic and aware of such things as etheric vampirism, then humans would be much easier prey. Because most people aren't aware of and don't protect themselves against psychic attacks, they unconsciously align their frequency to a realm full of evil beings, and they have the added bonus in that humans produce 'that spiritual nourishment'. This might explain why the people who have good spiritual/metaphysical potential and align themselves with God (the good one lol) in spiritual warfare against evil are heavily targeted, because they produce more of that spiritual energy the malevolent demons and ET lack.

And if half the population of humans has no connection to spirit/their higher mind and are simply energy moochers (said to act as a funnel to other realms), that is the opportune ratio for maximum energy transfer. The 'blemish' in the species could be a result of genetic engineering by cosmic farmers. It looks like our world is set-up to be a farm, along with all the occult black magic and radiation poisoning that is said to allow malevolent beings from other realms easier access to here.
...

I enjoy reading your guys', (Fore/Montalk's) conversations and the absence of fanatical emotions in discussing these things. You guys make a lot of good progress imo.

A99
03-11-2013, 06:33 PM
What an amazing conversation we have going on here and I hope it continues! I can't comment any further than that at this present time because I'm still processing this information hence why my head has been spinning all day now since I first read everything over here this morning.

montalk
03-12-2013, 08:40 AM
I'm also interested in this line of research and would enjoy reading more of what you have to say about this stuff based on your 'exotic' esoteric research.

Well I can tell you the general consensus of mystical traditions, and my modernized interpretation of it:

physical body: self-explanatory. Biological machine made of minerals. It needs something nonphysical to animate it. Why? Because its critical biological and neural processes arise at the quantum level, and no physical thing can "make" a quantum system behave a certain way. That is scientific fact. Therefore it has to be a nonphysical factor that does it. Which leads to:

etheric body: nonphysical scaffolding that permeates the physical body and maintains its structure and lifelike activities. Somewhat maps 1:1 with the body, but can extend beyond it and includes meta-structures that have no correspondence in the physical. If the physical body is like what you see in your browser, the etheric body is the HTML/CSS code beneath it, which has a lot more going on than is visible in the browser. The etheric body nudges things at the quantum level toward ordered behavior. Overrides the tendency of matter to decay. Without it, the body succumbs to forces of nature and decomposes. Hence it may also be called "life-force" as everything that is physical and alive has it. That includes plants, animals, bacteria, and maybe some minerals. Closest thing to Fore's description of "influence" as far as its biological role is concerned.

astral body: nonphysical structure where processes having to do with feelings, conscious impressions, drives, and subconscious impulses are active. If you had a being without this, it would be an unconscious vegetable without willpower, impressions, emotions, or volition. The astral body seems to interface the core of your consciousness (spirit) with the physical/etheric vehicle. It does not map to physicality, but seems to exist more in mind-space, inner-space, thought-space, or whatever you want to call it. An astral body by itself seems to have a mind of its own that seeks to carry out the drives and impulses that circulate through it. The astral is therefore more of a metaphysical-oriented structure, whereas the etheric is oriented more toward the physical domain.

spirit: core of your being, where true freewill and consciousness originate. Although what we sense as our 'mind' might be only the portion of this spirit that intersects with the lower astral/etheric/brain components. Thus the majority of spirit is still "up there" somewhere. This would be the "power cord to god" or the "god-spark within."

These four classifications are the bare minimum number of components needed to explain the bulk of biological, mental, and spiritual phenomena. You can pick out further components between astral and spirit, but that overcomplicates things for now. I think the biological brain and etheric components make up the lower mind, and the astral and spirit make up the higher mind complex.

montalk
03-12-2013, 08:40 AM
It's said that during life, the etheric stays attached to the physical body and keeps it alive. Even during a regular out-of-body-experience like when you wake up from a dream and find yourself floating near the ceiling, the etheric maintains a connection. It's only during serious NDEs that the etheric severs from the physical. And that deep level of uprooting seems to produce phenomena that a regular OOBE does not, such as having your life flash before your eyes.

So when you die, the idea is that right away the [spirit+astral+etheric] detach from the physical body. But since the etheric is well defined within space and time, you still have a defined body of sorts. Your personality, habits, biases, and non-biological drives are still intact. You can observe your local environment. Time generally flows as it does for the living. This is what you hear about in NDEs, with people dying on the operating table and floating around the hospital observing what's going on. People might not even realize they've died, if they still feel like themselves.

But for whatever reason, the etheric begins losing energy and coherence over the span of a few days or a week. This suggests the physical body, or the connection between the physical and etheric, supplied the energy and 'container' to keep the etheric together. I guess this makes sense, considering how even bacteria produce etheric energy fields, and what is our body other than a bunch of cells. I think it's during this phase, during the first week or two, that the dead person may attempt to visit relatives or friends. Myself, I've had dream visits from relatives and friends that have passed over, but only really within the first week or two. It wasn't my mind making it up either. One guy came to me within two days, and he was really upset and shaken up from the sudden death. I saw him again (in my dream) several days later, and he had adjusted and accepted it and was saying his goodbyes. Same with my grandma recently. I haven't heard from them since.

As the etheric loses energy, so goes your synchronization with linear time, your ability to perceive the physical environment, and your overall connection to physicality, and perhaps your ability to strongly interact with the living. It's said that ghosts become more tangible when they are nourished with the energy of the living. And that if they don't get it, I remember Fore even explaining that they become delirious and weak and lose track of time. This goes to show that etheric energy is oriented toward physicality.

Let's say the dead person runs out of etheric energy. Then the etheric body itself dies. So the astral+spirit leave the etheric body behind. It then decomposes. Or maybe it gets stirred back into activity via environmental circumstances, and then it's like an etheric zombie, one of those ghosts on repeat mode. I suppose also that some other entity could retrieve that shell and charge it back up, and then have access to that person's personality, memories, and such, which might explain some channeled/ouija board contacts with the deceased that greatly match the dead person but end up being ploys by demons. Rudolf Steiner even mentioned how in Asia, such beings wear the etheric 'costume' of the deceased to feed upon the energies given to them via ancestor worship. Pretty twisted.

By the time it's only the astral+spirit left, the person ought to be fully disconnected from physicality and existing in a dream-like environment that has been called the astral planes or the inner planes. Wherever it is, it has no correlation to our space-time. Supposedly this is where a more in-depth life review takes place, such as experiencing all the pain you caused from the other person's point of view. Not so much as moral punishment, but as a consequence of no longer being fettered by the limitations of the etheric/physical components, and therefore having a state of consciousness that can't help but see what your life was about.

Supposedly this is also where the astral body is slowly stripped away, one attachment/addiction/drive at a time. Which can be more like heaven or more like hell depending on the nature of your attachments. I'm not making this up, it's on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama). I think a lot of stuff can go wrong at this stage. For example, someone who was deeply invested in Catholicism may be so deeply rooted in the idea of judgment and purgatory, that at this stage they might find themselves drawn into some corner of the astral world living that expectation out, perhaps under the mercy of predatory beings (like demons) who play the role of priest. There they remain and are fed upon until the astral body runs out of juice and disintegrates, and the core spirit then is ready to make its final journey. I believe that in this astral afterlife, you are only as free as you were in life; that it's neither all heaven for everyone, nor all hell for everyone -- and that it depends on the person and how much baggage and soul damage they bring with them.

Spirit casting off the etheric+astral shells, and their subsequent disintegration, I believe is what the Bible calls "the second death." Which is good for spirit, because it's like taking off your old clothes and burning them. But it's bad news for anything that does not have spirit, because then they are the ones getting burned up if "clothes" is all they are. I'm not sure whether the beings that feed on the deceased in the astral realms are feeding only on the discarded astral shells, or whether they are feeding on the spirit still attached to it. Doesn't matter either way, as spirit is immortal. Thus what separates those whose name is written in the Book of Life, versus those who burn up in the Lake of Fire, ought to be the presence of spirit.

montalk
03-12-2013, 08:43 AM
Now I'll add another thing that ties into something Fore brought up.

Rudolf Steiner was a smart guy, a talented psychic who used his scientific mind to investigate what he could see with his second sight. He watched people sleep, people die, and traced what happened to them during that. Some of what I said above comes from his material.

Well, he explained that while we have a physical, etheric, and astral body given to us by default when we are conceived and born, that these aren't all that great. And that through spiritual training, it's possible to transmute each of these into a higher analogue. The transmutation is really done by Spirit.

See, instead of the etheric and astral being molded/programmed by the physical life, it's possible for Spirit to do the molding instead. This gradually creates a crystallized, refined, spiritualized versions of these. Probably the true meaning of transubstantiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation) as opposed to crackers turning into flesh. That's actually the goal of pretty much every esoteric system I've looked at, whether they state it outright or not: to create a new vehicle, a new metaphysical structural interface, that Spirit can fully command or at least operate through.

My guess is that this higher analogue, this spiritualized body, is what's meant here:


I realized long ago that in Christianity human beings strive to gain a gift of "eternal life". As in they are trying to gain a new SPIRIT that is "clean" and....a new body....that lives "perpetually".

Which ties into:


(Gospel of Thomas, Saying #37) His disciples said, "When will you be shown forth to us and when shall we behold you?" Jesus said, "When you strip naked without being ashamed, and take your garments and put them under your feet like little children and tread upon them, then [you] will see the child of the living. And you will not be afraid."


(Luke 11:36) If you are filled with light, with no dark corners, then your whole life will be radiant, as though a floodlight were filling you with light."


(Revelation 3:5) All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

---


Which brings me to another interesting point. I have always noticed that the HOE (Higher Order Entities/Angels) don't have the same configuration as either human beings nor the ET.

They seem to be emitting a strong range of living influence that is of a very high quality. Yet, it repels malevolent entities of the spiritual kind. I have seen no effect on ET to be honest.

That's a very important observation. Would be great to try and get to the bottom of this. I interpret it to mean that demons and angels must have influence fields that interact, even though they seem to be of opposite polarity. You know, the "spiritual death vs spiritual life" part of the spectrum. Whereas ETs may not really intersect with that part of the spectrum. I mean, ETs can perceive the HOEs when they show up, and humans can feel that "seal" you mentioned, but it's not like demons that writhe and scatter. I'll have to think more about this.

A99
03-12-2013, 03:02 PM
It's said that during life, the etheric stays attached to the physical body and keeps it alive. Even during a regular out-of-body-experience like when you wake up from a dream and find yourself floating near the ceiling, the etheric maintains a connection. It's only during serious NDEs that the etheric severs from the physical. And that deep level of uprooting seems to produce phenomena that a regular OOBE does not, such as having your life flash before your eyes.

So when you die, the idea is that right away the [spirit+astral+etheric] detach from the physical body. But since the etheric is well defined within space and time, you still have a defined body of sorts. Your personality, habits, biases, and non-biological drives are still intact. You can observe your local environment. Time generally flows as it does for the living. This is what you hear about in NDEs, with people dying on the operating table and floating around the hospital observing what's going on. People might not even realize they've died, if they still feel like themselves.

But for whatever reason, the etheric begins losing energy and coherence over the span of a few days or a week. This suggests the physical body, or the connection between the physical and etheric, supplied the energy and 'container' to keep the etheric together. I guess this makes sense, considering how even bacteria produce etheric energy fields, and what is our body other than a bunch of cells. I think it's during this phase, during the first week or two, that the dead person may attempt to visit relatives or friends. Myself, I've had dream visits from relatives and friends that have passed over, but only really within the first week or two. It wasn't my mind making it up either. One guy came to me within two days, and he was really upset and shaken up from the sudden death. I saw him again (in my dream) several days later, and he had adjusted and accepted it and was saying his goodbyes. Same with my grandma recently. I haven't heard from them since.

I'm a spiritual medium Montalk and the information in your above paragraph may be correct based on your own experiences where you may have found others out there who share the same sentiments that you do that's based on their own experiences and observations on spirit contact and other things too but what you are saying is a dramatic departure from what the vast majority of practicing mediums who are in constant ongoing communcation with those who have passed over know and have experienced. And here I am not only in disagreement with the etheric time-table you are presentiing here, at least how it is most of the time, but also when most of our deceased loved one's contact us and the duration of time that may go on which for many is throughout their entire lifetime.

I am not even talking about exceptions here... I'm talking about how is it the vast majority of the time.

But then of course, for those who believe what you do on this that those spirits who continue their communication with their loved ones after the etheric time-table you are giving here are really only shells of them that have been taken over by another "intelligence" but you don't know that for sure and in fact -- no one does.

Also, I'm a long time reader of Steiner's material and was even at one time a member of the Antroposophy Society throughout the 90's and even though Steiner did talk about those ancestor spirits and so on, Steiner did indeed, after his own investigation of each case that came up, give his own validation and support to a number of those who claimed to be in ongoing long term contact with their deceased loved ones via mediumship. So it is fair to say that in Steiner's view, the answer is 'All of the Above' where one needs to take it on a case by case basis. However, he did have an axe to grind with the Theophists and the Spiritualists during his time era and for good reason too, so for this reason, in many of his lectures, it seemed like he was negating much of their ideology in the area of spirit contact but if you were to take him aside and engage in a private conversation with him on that, the information I just shared here on that is absolutely true and it is also very well documented. A good book to read about all of this is "The Imagination of Pentecost: Rudolph Steiner & Contemporary Spirituality" by Richard Leviton.

A99
03-12-2013, 04:06 PM
Montalk, with all due respect, you are entitled to your own opinion on those topics you discussed in your post #56 but that's all it is... your opinion and nothing more. This is your belief system but it's contrary to what the vast majority of those of us who are in continuing contact with those who have passed over (not all of it but a lot of it) not to mention all of the information concerning these topics that have been passed on from one generation to the next since the beginning of human civilization about the spirit world.

However, having said this, I understand what you are doing here and your need to fit information on topics like this so that it conforms to the paradigm that you are attempting to develop and are working with. But let me remind you that Rudolph Steiner even said about his own work that nothing is carved in stone and that one needs to constantly be open to the fact that they may have not been correct about something especially after new information comes in that negates ones former suppositions. We are after all dealing with spiritual science and subtle realities. Quantum physics is still very much in it's beginning stages. We have a loooong way to go yet before we come even close to even knowing if we are on the right track or not in any given area of these spiritual fields of study.


So the bottom line is, anyone who states that "it's this way" in any given area having to do with how things are after we pass over is essentially expressing their own views based not on scientific rigor but their own religious and/or philosophical belief system on such matters.

Until we are able to assess such matters on a scientific level, no one is right and no one is entirely wrong either.

But then of course, we can choose to believe on Faith alone that this or that IS the way it really is -- if we are convinced that our religion of choice is the only correct one.

The same goes for information that one has received via channeling, telepathy, mediumship and so on, whatever one wants to call it, from a source that that person believes is reliable and is telling it as it is. But that is not science and it's no different than how a religious person accepts and believes those tenents about their religion where they are accepting such information ON FAITH alone that what their source is saying is true.

But having said this, there is power in numbers and the more there are out there throughout whole stretches of time that are receiving the same information on things, the prudent seeker will take into consideration that some of that information is valid wrt their own journey for truth -- even if some things do not correlate with their own experiences.

But kudo's to those like you who are taking the path less traveled because at least it does allow us to view those possibilities out there that we may not have considered before. I myself am all for intellectual exploration in these topic area's.

Garuda
03-12-2013, 04:44 PM
Just a thought here, but I think A99 and Montalk don't use or understand 'etheric' in the same meaning.

I'm speculating here, and I've only superficially scanned through what is being said, but my first impression is that what you are referring to, A99, when you talk about ongoing communication with departed people would be considered 'astral' in Montalk's approach, and not etheric.

Damn semantics again... ;)

The problem is that many authors give entirely different definitions of 'etheric' and 'astral.' And it can become even more confusing if you have people like Barbara Ann Brennan who talks about no less than 7 different layers of subtle bodies, where others use models that have 3, 4 or 6.

So you may each have to be more specific when you use certain labels, and clarify what exactly you are talking of.

Fore
03-12-2013, 08:21 PM
Damn semantics again... ;) BINGO!

Despite the terminology Montalk is using, I pretty much understand what he is conveying.


The problem is that many authors give entirely different definitions of 'etheric' and 'astral.' And it can become even more confusing if you have people like Barbara Ann Brennan who talks about no less than 7 different layers of subtle bodies, where others use models that have 3, 4 or 6. THat is what I have noticed as well.

I have a hard time understanding the various concepts of Astral and Etheric as none of the classical editions of the words are perfectly accurate. Different people view the same in slightly different ways and give different meanings while they are at it.

Luckily, the people who taught me didn't use the conventions so I don't need to deal with them....unless I have to force some kind of forced comparision.

Despite that, I still have a (rough) idea of what people are trying to convey even if the terms themselves are inaccurate in their description of phenomena. (IMO only)


So you may each have to be more specific when you use certain labels, and clarify what exactly you are talking of.Good point.

I still understood Montalks writings, I just don't want to interrupt him for any reason as I want to see how the ideas unroll as he works out different situations and tries to put things together.

lycaeus
03-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Montalk, with all due respect, you are entitled to your own opinion on those topics you discussed in your post #56 but that's all it is... your opinion and nothing more
A99, I didn't find his posts that opinionated. The subtext I was getting was that he has the mind-set of wondering, pondering, comparing notes from diverse sources, contemplating, thinking creatively and hypothesizing. It's evident when you see the words he uses in the last couple of posts^^^:

~"Well I can tell you the general consensus of mystical traditions, and my modernized interpretation of it:..."
~"It's said that..."
~"the idea is that..."
~"This suggests..."
~"I guess this makes sense, considering..."
~"I think"
~"...may..."
~"Or maybe..."
~" I suppose also that some other entity could..." [my own italics]
~"Rudolf Steiner even mentioned how..."
~"Supposedly..."
~"Supposedly..."
~" it's on Wikipedia"
~"I think..."
~"Perhaps..."
~"I believe..."
~"I believe..."
~"I'm not sure..."
~"Probably..."
~"My guess is that..."
~"Would be great to try and get to the bottom of this."
~"I'll have to think more about this."

You can see that he is not being arrogant/opinionated, just expressing what he's learned in an open, non-dogmatic conversational way. In the end we are all opinionated creatures, there's no escaping that. I believe there are universal truths though that some are closer to understanding better than others. But we all need our own personal revelations. My point is that I thought it was kind of harsh to say that 'it is just your opinion, that is all it is and nothing more.'

Your point about dead people, spirits, communicating with people long after death was interesting. My guess is that the some etheric bodies stay around longer than others. Maybe the ones in direct communication with the living do not disintegrate as soon as others, because they living symbiotically (think is right word) with the living. Maybe their interaction gives them energy and the beliefs and focus of the living upon the deceased helps to 'keep them together' for a little while longer.

This reminds me of how we use names like Easter (Ishtar/Astarte), the brand name Volcom (Atlantean crystal-'god' 'Vulcan'), saying Amen after every prayer (ancient guy Amen-Ra), 'Alien Workshop' skateboards, naming rockets Apollo, Atlas and the like and having all kinds of references to aliens, mythological gods and spirits (angels/demons) in our modern world. I think this is by design. And when we accept these occult references to these 'gods', spirits or alien beings, we are giving some sort of metaphysical power to them. And our belief and acceptance of them might make it easier for such supposed beings to connect with us and our world.. That's probably bad since negative types interfere more than positive guys.

Montalk, those were great posts by the way. I'm attracted now more to intellectual thoughts on spirituality and spiritual growth. The clear explanations helps me by understanding there is more to physical life. To the skeptics I'd ask "What's holding your atoms together, hmmm?" It's easy to forget when you're working in a harsh physical world out there. The knowledge of Karma is important and it's curious that so many traditions all over the world believe in it and the afterlife.

I also have a question for you, or anyone. Do you know of any good evidence that drugs like marijuana damage the etheric body? I can't stand the stuff anymore though I used to be a huge stoner. Some friends I have still indulge in it and feel it is harmless... based on the surface. The best evidence I have is that it gives bad feelings and screws with your thinking processes. I've heard a lot of opinions that it is bad energetically, but was wondering if maybe Mr.Steiner or someone had reported actually seeing energetic damage done. People also say that drugs like weed make it easier for spirits to attach and interfere with your life too, and that is one reason I've changed my ways.

Fore
03-12-2013, 08:37 PM
Isaiah 8:19

When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?


Leviticus 19:31

"'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God."


Leviticus 20:6

"'I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

There is a good reason why people should not consult with spirits. The dead are just barely holding on by draining the living. I WAS a big offender of exactly this. Once I realized my mistake I stopped and I don't encourage anyone else to do the same....for very good reasons.

If you've got gramps on the line, you should direct them to the afterlife or let them sleep. Chances are always high that it is not really gramps.

If they are there with you long after their death, chances are significantly high they are sustaining themselves in some "strange/unnatural" way....or are now part of the spirits who work for the entities in the places (here on Earth) between life and death.

If you don't want them to become "Phantoms" or endure long extended misery, let them go. That is my personal advice.

montalk
03-12-2013, 10:03 PM
So you may each have to be more specific when you use certain labels, and clarify what exactly you are talking of.

Semantics is precisely why I started off with my definitions of those terms.


Montalk, with all due respect, you are entitled to your own opinion on those topics you discussed in your post #56 but that's all it is... your opinion and nothing more.

Correct, that's why I said it's my modernized interpretation. Once I give that caveat, the rest of the post falls under it. Some of what's stated is indisputable fact, some is weighted probabilities or best-fit estimates, and some is creative speculation. I assume people are independent minded enough to take others' posts as thoughts to consider, rather than commands to accept. It should be common understanding that what others say is their own point of view regardless of how they say it. If someone disagrees with a proposed idea and has a better alternative, then let them make their case. That's what discussion and debate ought to be.

Now, because I was writing forum posts and not a book, I couldn't include all cases and exceptions. That's where the problem arose. I focused on a specific stripped down example for the sake of illustration. If I had more time, I would have mentioned how visits from the departed during the first couple weeks seem to differ from the more spurious communications that come months/years down the line. The first would be more etheric type interaction, the second more astral according to my definition of those terms.

The first category seems a lot stronger and more tangible. Extreme example: wife dies at 10AM, husband gets the call at 11AM, and says it can't be true because she was just there visiting him at work five minutes ago. Less extreme example: dream visitation and goodbyes. I have zero doubt that these early visits are indeed from the actual deceased individual.

The second category might require more sensitive dream states, seances, or psychic powers to form a connection. And even then, there's the issue of what exactly is being contacted. Is it the actual person, just the astral shell, maybe a 'recording' of the person imprinted in the 'akashic' (like a simulation)? Whatever the case, these interactions seem to have have more in common with channeling than personal visitation. There's a lot more potential shenanigans and complexities going on with astral communications, which is why I didn't get into it.

Again, I'm not discussing all cases. What about people who die and enter an uncommunicative comatose state afterwards? What would hardened atheists experience after death? What about people who, in life, already had very weak etheric/astral bodies and not much going on between the ears, whose spirit might have checked out years earlier or was never there to begin with -- what happens to them when they die? What about people who stay in their etheric bodies after death by siphoning energy off the living, for years and years? What about a person who was a dark occultist in life and gained power over others through the service of demons, would he then have to pay the demons back after death? If I don't mention something, that doesn't mean I deny it.

---

Has anyone seen What Dreams May Come (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120889/&sa=U&ei=iJg_UabHHIPg8wT8tYGIBA&ved=0CBgQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGY7xtqIPmk67GKhJAUb8mcvhlAGg) (1998). It's a Hollywood version of life after death. But judging by some of the plot elements, the writers must have done wide research on the subject.

A99
03-13-2013, 12:00 AM
Like I said Montalk, you are entitled to your opinion what happens after someone dies but once again, no one knows for sure what exactly happens.

And for the rest of you, i'm not going to be a door mat here and I do not even regret that I said that and I'll say it again if I have to to anyone who is stating their opinion about something in a manner that appears to look as if it's based on something more than just an opinion.

And Montalk, as for your authorative writing style on this topic, thanks for clarification on that. Also, just to err on the side of caution, don't assume that everyone is going to be able to interpret that style is merely one that you use to convey your opinion on things. Yes, it's true that we are currently using a forum venue but just for us dummies out there, my humble suggestion for you would be to first state right off the bat that you are only giving your opinions on these matters that are based on whatever criteria you used to form those opinions/viewpoints. If you could start off that way, that would help. thanks


At any rate, most people who are researchers in this area also use the term "Etheric" to refer to the "Etheric Realms" or something in the etheric realms or referring to the etheric realms. This is how I was using that term also in my posts.

As for the different esoteric sheaths that Montalk defined that he goes by, different schools of thought have different opinions on when we shed the etheric sheath after we die but, once again, they are only opinions, beliefs etc... I understood perfectly that he was defining what he believes each sheath entails based on his readings... Garuda brought up Brenner's and in my view, I think she's more on target with that because of her hands on experience in working directly in that area.

We each have choices to believe what we want to believe and it's as simple as that!

I should add that I always tell those whom I am contacting someone for that should their loved one come in, even though I have them answer questions that i do not know the answer to about themselves where I then relay the answer to those questions that the spirit answered to the person I'm working with to find out if they are correct or not (I do this to first help to confirm that I've contacted the right person and call them confirmation questions) -- where after that I then ask that spirit if he/she has any message that they want to give that person... I always tell the person that I'm working with that even if the spirit answered those confirmation questions correctly, there still is a chance that it's not the real person we are trying to contact. I also say that it's up to them if they want to believe it's that person or not. I myself will add that there's a chance that it could be that person but i can't say that with absolute certainty. And, once again,this follows for no matter how many personal questions they answer correctly.


Others (mediums) don't do that but the reason why I do is because NO ONE KNOWS WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY what happens after we die and if those spirits who claim to be someone are really that person when they come through via some type of mediumship, telepathy and so on.


The same goes for people who claim to be in contact with ET's, higher order whatever's and so on. The reason why is because there may be other intelligences out there who are mimicking and posing as whatever and whoever they choose to be.

A99
03-13-2013, 01:28 AM
Here's an example of The Scientific Method:


DNA example



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/DNA_icon_%2825x25%29.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DNA_icon_(25x25).png)


The basic elements of the scientific method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Elements_of_the_scientific_metho d) are illustrated by the following example from the discovery of the structure of DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA):

Question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#DNA-characterizations): Previous investigation of DNA had determined its chemical composition (the four nucleotides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleotides)), the structure of each individual nucleotide, and other properties. It had been identified as the carrier of genetic information by the Avery–MacLeod–McCarty experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery%E2%80%93MacLeod%E2%80%93McCarty_experiment) in 1944,[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-harvnb.7CMcCarty1985-16) but the mechanism of how genetic information was stored in DNA was unclear.
Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#DNA-hypotheses): Francis Crick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick) and James D. Watson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_D._Watson) hypothesized that DNA had a helical structure.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-17)
Prediction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#DNA-predictions): If DNA had a helical structure, its X-ray diffraction pattern would be X-shaped.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-18)[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-Crick_pp._137-138-19) This prediction was determined using the mathematics of the helix transform, which had been derived by Cochran, Crick and Vand[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-HelixTransform-20) (and independently by Stokes).
Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#DNA-experiments): Rosalind Franklin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Franklin) crystallized pure DNA and performed X-ray diffraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_diffraction) to produce photo 51 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_51). The results showed an X-shape.
Analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#DNA-iterations): When Watson saw the detailed diffraction pattern, he immediately recognized it as a helix.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-TeaTime-21)[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-Watson_1968_167-22) He and Crick then produced their model, using this information along with the previously known information about DNA’s composition and about molecular interactions such ashydrogen bonds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bonds).[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#cite_note-SameShape-23)




The discovery became the starting point for many further studies involving the genetic material, such as the field of molecular genetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_genetics), and it was awarded the Nobel Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Physiology_or_Medicine) in 1962. Each step of the example is examined in more detail later in the article.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method


None of these topics having to do with communication with those who dwell (or what happens in those realms too) in the etheric realms, at the present time, can be tested using the scientific method. Having said this though, there have been some breakthroughs in quantum physics but because that field is still in its infancy, we have long way to go yet in this area.

Because of this, any information about things having to do with what goes on in those etheric realms out there is only conjecture/opinion regardless that it may be based on our own experiences and observations (or anybody else's for that matter).

montalk
03-13-2013, 02:01 AM
I have been wondering, If these HOE come from this dimension that we call "Eternity" and there are other kinds of life forms there as well.

I have no reason to doubt this. Wherever they come from seems to be a protected place that is at peace and very close to divinity. The physical universe is nothing like that. The etheric and astral environment is full of dead people, tricksters, demons, and illusions. And all is not happy in "alien land" either. So those can be ruled out for the origins of HOEs. Therefore I believe there does exist an "Eternity" beyond all that. I'm a believer in the Kingdom of Heaven, not out of faith but because it's a concept that fits.

Notice how HOEs seem more preoccupied with our spirit, whereas that isn't as big a concern to aliens? That says something about spirit, how it might actually originate from this "Eternity" in some way. It's familiar, important, even kindred to them. Why? Well, in that four-component theory I sketched out yesterday, if the etheric body exists in an etheric environment and the astral body in the astral environment, then wouldn't spirit also have its corresponding realm?

What other kinds of life forms could be there, I don't know. But I would consider "spirit" to be one of those lifeforms that for whatever reason is now here, in this world. Maybe it's a godspark that fell. Or maybe it still exists up there in eternity, but a part of it is jacked into space-time. Maybe it's stuck here, held prisoner by the ego and the dark control system, and that's why Jesus made that parable about the lost sheep:


(Gospel of Thomas #107) Jesus said, "What the kingdom resembles is a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, strayed away. He left the ninety-nine and sought the one until he found it. After having toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine."


Then...perhaps our popular assumptions on universal existence is really far off the mark. Perhaps there is no reincarnation. Perhaps there is no evolutionary process among the stars. Perhaps the universe is empty save for us and a few offshoot ETs [and the fallen UT] trying to cling to life in and around the only spot in the universe that life exists.

My question is, what is the extent of the fallen realm? Is it so small that it's only us and aliens on Earth? Or could that extend 15 billion light years in all directions? What would be the difficulty in having it be that large? You pointed out that:


Popular theories abound say that life should be present in the universe...yet there is so far no "far away evidence" that this is the case. The only things we know of as ET life are the visitors we meet in very close proximity to the Earth.

Right, there's no proof yet of life beyond the solar system. There are some weird anomalies on Mars suggesting someone's been there, but beyond the solar system there is no proof yet. On the other hand, there is no proof against it either. So the possibility remains open either way. What you're proposing may be the case, and I'm open to it.


And these strangers die....like us.

To me that would imply that they are biological like us, which equally supports a) Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH) as much as b) the idea that aliens are locally produced avatars made from Earth genetic material to fool us.

If they do come from other planets, the fact that they are humanoid indicates some ancestral DNA connection. Either they were made from us, us from them, or both were made by some primordial race that seeded humanoid variations on different worlds.

The only thing their mortality proves is that they have bodies and therefore aren't nonphysical beings like ghosts or demons are. I would think their crashed ships, hybridization phenomenon, and alien hair samples would support this as well.

Let's say for a moment that they are tangible beings with tangible technology, and that they even originate from other planets. In that case, they would still have plenty of reasons to lie to us about their extraterrestrial origins.

One reason: to cover up the possibility that, instead of them being innocent visitors to Earth, they've been here longer than we have, and our entire civilization is actually their little petri dish or alien ant farm. So they fake innocence in order to massage us into accepting whatever plans they have for us next.

Another reason: to make us think they came here using science that is merely an extension of our current physics, and therefore they don't have to reveal to us anything about influence manipulation. Meaning they pretend their science is 500 years ahead of ours, when in fact it might be thousands and extend into areas of reality that seem more like magic or occultism.


So what if there is no slow crawl up in evolution and space faring races across the cosmos? What if the circumstances surrounding our existence is different than what we assume?

What if the whole effort is to confuse a bunch of descendants of outcasts from Eternity....present in greater numbers and unaware of iour origins? Trying to convince humanity the universe is more like modern pop-culture assumes it to be?

Ok, then I have an alternative theory that would combine both into one. What if the universe has existed for an incredibly long time, is really large, and has evolutionary lifeforms crawling up from the muck all over the place, and some even end up evolving into space-faring races. What if that whole thing is its own self-contained bubble, like a terrarium or a virtual world simulation.

Meanwhile, there is an "Eternity" outside all that, a kind of "real world" where the UTs are going about happily doing whatever they do. Maybe they're the ones who programmed the universe into existence in the first place as an experiment or game or whatever. Except at some point, a schism occurred -- the Lucifer Rebellion -- and a portion of them were banished into the space-time bubble. There they set up shop, began taking over the place. Existing races they invaded and took over, repurposed to their own plans. Maybe they began doing genetic engineering and created more suitable biological avatars.

But that's not all. What if another kind of UT lifeform was sent here, or fell here, or was captured and dragged down here. What if this is spirit, and it incarnated into certain humanoid bodies. What if before that point, humanoids existed on earth but they lacked any semblance of spirit, and were closer to animals. And what if the other fallen UTs who were terraforming the universe saw these incarnated spirits as a threat or a resource from "back home" that, in now being there with them, they could prey upon or enslave; perhaps they were the ones who modified the humanoid bodies in order to "catch" the spirits falling from "Eternity."

So you have these UTs that fell into an already existing universe teeming with lifeforms, bringing their heavenly battle and infernal agenda down into the material universe, and altering the course of the universe accordingly. And this "incarnated spirit vs fallen UT dynamic" has played out on many worlds and isn't localized to just Earth.

I'm not saying that's my belief, I was just thinking of something that accommodates both the "fallen UT" and "aliens can be from other planets" ideas.

A99
03-13-2013, 02:04 AM
If we choose to BELIEVE something, we are only doing the best we can do with the information that we have available to us.

If that information is only based on our own experiences and observations or the same by someone whom we, for whatever reason trust, then so be it.

But nothing is fact and everything is only conjecture. That is unless whatever we are presenting as fact had been scientifically proven as fact.

lycaeus
03-13-2013, 02:42 AM
But that's not all. What if another kind of UT lifeform was sent here, or fell here, or was captured and dragged down here. What if this is spirit, and it incarnated into certain humanoid bodies. What if before that point, humanoids existed on earth but they lacked any semblance of spirit, and were closer to animals. And what if the other fallen UTs who were terraforming the universe saw these incarnated spirits as a threat or a resource from "back home" that, in now being there with them, they could prey upon or enslave; perhaps they were the ones who modified the humanoid bodies in order to "catch" the spirits falling from "Eternity."

Good theory :thumbup: Fits in with the Genesis story of the ancients being tempted to eat of the tree of knowledge of good/evil (dualistc, physical universe) then later having been fooled, were cast out of paradise (eternity, the real world). I'm reminded of something from the Wingmakers site where it is said that 'Anu' created an artificial world and seduced souls into visiting his 'amusement park'. But then he enslaved them as king of this world. I guess he wasn't king in the 'real world' so he got jealous and made a lesser world he could thrive in.


But nothing is fact and everything is only conjecture. That is unless whatever we are presenting as fact had been scientifically proven as fact.

The fact is, that I am thinking about dodo birds bobbing their heads, but you can't do an objective scientific experiment to prove this. But I know it as fact. So science has its limitations.

A99
03-13-2013, 02:45 AM
No... science DOES NOT have its LIMITATIONS... but WE DO because SCIENCE IS MORE ADVANCED THAN WE ARE. LOL

WE, the DODOe's that we are, have not yet progressed enough even on an evolutionary scale to understand those etheric realms/other dimensions out there. We are still the 'ants' in a universe populated by Einsteins.

lycaeus
03-13-2013, 03:16 AM
WE, the DODOe's that we are, have not yet progressed enough even on an evolutionary scale to understand those etheric realms/other dimensions out there.

Fair enough. But maybe there are some psychics out there, and maybe Rudolph Steiner really was psychic and could see some of the etheric realms/other dimensions. So contemplating his and others' work might be a good step in the right direction. Learning it is like learning an instrument. You study the work of someone who has better abilities then you and you climb up to their level by slowly developing your own abilities, be it psychic perception or finger coordination.

A99
03-13-2013, 04:24 AM
Nope, that's not going to work sweetie. I'm here and I'm staying here. lol Regardless if you like it or not.

lycaeus
03-13-2013, 05:02 AM
Nope, that's not going to work sweetie. I'm here and I'm staying here. lol Regardless if you like it or not.
Ok you've lost me. I never said I wanted you to go anywhere. :confused:

A99
03-13-2013, 05:13 AM
lOL, GOOD because I'm not going anywhere. [smooch]

montalk
03-13-2013, 05:14 AM
Good theory :thumbup: Fits in with the Genesis story of the ancients being tempted to eat of the tree of knowledge of good/evil (dualistc, physical universe) then later having been fooled, were cast out of paradise (eternity, the real world). I'm reminded of something from the Wingmakers site where it is said that 'Anu' created an artificial world and seduced souls into visiting his 'amusement park'. But then he enslaved them as king of this world. I guess he wasn't king in the 'real world' so he got jealous and made a lesser world he could thrive in.

There are so many myths/religions that express that theme, it's uncanny. Must be something to it.

I had a dream once where something along those lines was conveyed. I posted it before, here it is again:


I was having lunch at a chinese restaurant sitting across from two blond-haired women. We were conversing and they asked me a question/riddle: "What do science and spirituality have in common?" -- and I answered, but the answer came out of me almost as if they were suggesting it telepathically. The answer was that both involve energy not being created or destroyed, rather transformed from one state to another. They elaborated that what we take as 3D reality is like a self-contained bubble, a special kind of environment. That the true inner core of us, that spark of sentience, is situated and originates from outside that bubble. That it is immortal and transcendent, and cannot be permanently harmed. But that there are forces in the bubble who are native here, or at least trapped by their own choice to be the way they are. They may eat our bodies, even harvest our soul energies. But in the end, they are the prisoners of their realm, and we are above and beyond it even though we are temporarily extending ourselves here into this environment.

That line of reasoning makes sense to me.

A99
03-13-2013, 05:20 AM
Yes, that makes sense to me too and it scares me.

lycaeus
03-13-2013, 05:49 AM
As a side note: I just read of a case where a woman said she remembers being forced to manifest in this 3D universe against her will. Reminded me of when my ex-girlfriend said that before she was born, 'god' told her that she had to come down to earth even though she didn't want to. She protested though. So I'm suspecting the trickery might go beyond this realm we live in...

Fore
03-13-2013, 06:05 AM
The second category might require more sensitive dream states, seances, or psychic powers to form a connection. And even then, there's the issue of what exactly is being contacted. Is it the actual person, just the astral shell, maybe a 'recording' of the person imprinted in the 'akashic' (like a simulation)?

I think there is an issue that people never come to terms with. A psychic person who is still embodied can pick up others personality and traits.

When they do the exact same with someone or something that is not embodied, they can't see it or hear it directly. Without ESP, they only feel the impressions but cannot perform more advanced analysis on what is present.

There are psychics who don't have lucid forms of ESP. Some even up to rely on sleep and dreams to gather critical information. Some psychics can't even sense the room they are in (strangely enough). Some psychics are largely blind with respect to ESP...sometimes effectively only emitting "Influence" from their bodies but are unable to really "sense the environment" around them.

So when a voice or impression is picked up in their mind, they may hear a voice like grandma. They sense the personality within their mind. They seemingly assume that the presence is someone they know sometimes just from that. They usually ask questions that are ambiguous ("What is it like on the other side?") or that they already do consciously know ("Who did you marry on your 27th birthday?")

Whatever is said is seemingly readily accepted.

Other more astute psychics actually crosscheck what they think they know. Not many unfortunately.

-----------------------------

Quite literally, a psychically enabled person who has [ESP blindness] wouldn't know what is actually in the room with them if they only go by what is happening within their mind.

The rather obvious mistake is not realizing what is happening in their head can easily be manipulated. Information can be read from their mind and restated right back to them "as answers" in less than 3 heartbeats.

------------------------------

Evan more bizarre encounter occur,

I have sometimes heard of people telling me stranger than fiction stories of them talking to someone and then finding out the other person was not even there to begin with. The other person was elsewhere and wasn't at the location.

The only commonality in their stories was that the person never responded back in idle conversation OR the person retelling the account wasn't paying deep attention or close notice to whomever or whatever it was. (Creepy I know)

In my youth this has happened to me once or twice to myself. I usually assumed that the other person just simply forgot what had happened earlier. But I believe it can happen. I think this would be considered "full body apparitions" but I am not sure. I think the idea of doppelgangers might exist for this reason, but I haven't a real clue how it could even be performed in a technical way.

Sometimes it happens to other people I know (very rarely) and claim I went into a room and had a conversation or just stood there and listened or responded back with a conversation that didn't take place moments before....

The only problem is I wasn't even there to begin with.


Whatever the case, these interactions seem to have have more in common with channeling than personal visitation. There's a lot more potential shenanigans and complexities going on with astral communications, which is why I didn't get into it. The more common manifestations that mystics seem to encounter is that they are approached by someone disembodied claiming to be "a relative".

The disembodied responds as if they were, they answer questions "as if" they were. But in the end, the (whatever it is) usually tends to slant the persons ideas towards popular myths. They give messages that don't usually jive. Give incorrect answers at least some of the time. Usually share information that anyone outside that situation would find questionable, sometimes baseless or just plain false. (not in every occasion mind you, but it happens alot)

---------------------------------
Anyway,
I don't think montalk is all that off the mark. You can talk to almost any psychic and they will usually have that encounter at least once in their life. Of some disembodied spirit approaching them and claiming to be anything from a deceased person all the way to a living person who is alive and well but who is separated and far away. <---that last one has been said often during times of grief)

The whole thing with talking to the dead is that a good portion of psychics (in my observations) are not ESP capable [in a lucid sense]. They cannot actively sense (in some real lucid form) what is in front of them.

They see nothing with their physical eyes, they only hear something in their head, it has voice characteristics of a deceased loved one (sometimes a living loved one!) and it usually responds superficially when asked questions.

From the way it usually plays out, they have contact with it, and the information is either in two main veins:

A) Accurate, detailed, intelligent and consciously aware of the environment.

Or

B) Inaccurate, ambiguous, limited intelligence, and semi-consciously aware or not at all aware of the environment.

I have always assumed that the two are almost always associated with entities posing as someone else. I have long supposed it is because of extended observation(s) long before the person comes into conscious contact with the entity, without the knowledge of the contacted, or they (the entity) are actively mind reading the person who it is in contact with.

That is another strange things about common assumptions with psychics. They strangely assume that because someone is disembodied they are somehow less likely to be able to read their mind. I never understood that strange thinking. So the entity can put that voice in your head, but the assumption that it cannot hear your thoughts never occurred to you....?

That is so....<rolls eyes>

A99
03-13-2013, 06:28 AM
Oh, forget it. I'm not going to comment on anything Fore says. lol

Fore
03-13-2013, 07:14 AM
Just replace Collectors with "Fallen UT" and I think that might get us closer to the truth. If the UTs lost their connection with God, then they'd need a new source of energy.

Alright, if the above is true (even if metaphorical) then the way of life on this planet, with millions and billions of people living out their dramas, with all the associated spiritual anguish (not just physical) -- that may be what's needed to sustain such a farm. If you took 100 humans and put them in a controlled environment, it might fail due to lack of stimulation and high tension interaction. You can't just stick them in a pod under a comatose state either unless you're only going after low level life-force energy; if you want something further up on the spectrum perhaps you need to provide emotional/spiritual stimulation to get a corresponding emission.

That's another thing I wanted to talk with you about sometime. From what you've written so far, the role of emotions is absent in the paradigm you were taught. It's not a fault, it's an observation that I think has a very good reason for it. You can do all your EFM stuff and pass on structured commands without the need to invoke love or joy or anger, like some psychics believe they must employ. Personally I believe it's because you're making use of features/aspects of your lower-higher mind structure that don't require it, and those were the features you were taught by aliens who themselves aren't exactly bubbly sentimental beings. I suspect that you need more than just emotions.

There is something that bothers me about the ET. After spending an enormous amount of time with them, I came to various conclusions. One of them being that I gathered the impression that there is something wrong with them.

It's not something you'd notice with superficial observation. It is something you start to realize after watching them do alot of activities. There is something very WRONG about how they behave. Anyone who did a cursory look over them wouldn't notice it.

They come off as being broken in a number of their backgrounds. There is something critical missing.

--------------------------

As you mentioned, people from here might be pretty slow when it comes to the mentality. Even the range of emotions inside of a human being is very shallow.

It is not like (some) of the ET don't have emotions. Some of them have a wider range of emotions that I have never seen in a human being.

But....

#1 There is too much self control.
Rather than their emotional state dictating their actions, their mentality does. Things are almost always done because they are beneficial rather than because they are RIGHT.

That excessive level of self control leads them to do questionable things. If you met them today and you spent time with them, you would not notice it right away. It would take time and plenty of observation to notice that the different kinds of ET seem to all have one thing in common, They all seem overly competent (with exceptions!) but they all seem lacking in something that is usually pretty abundant in people (from here).

Imagine if you always made a choice because your head told you it was the logical or beneficial thing to do. Imagine if when you are confronted with someone in pain, you decide to weigh your options between gains and losses and then do what you think is the most beneficial tradeoff.

What if the Truth of a matter is an expendable commodity if your goals are contrary to that Truth?

------------------------------

An example,

You need to do experiments on someone but this implies lying to them to put them in the right conditions for the experiment. You fully understand the situation even if that experimentee does not. So you might have conflicted feelings upon it. But you can always just use your advanced psychic control to reduce the feelings until they don't bother you anymore. You can control your own physiological reactions and aversions on almost every level.

So rather than break down as a human being would with a nagging conscience (as in your conscience will bother you to such a degree that you cannot continue to function properly). You simply "control it away" until you can perform as intended.

Forgive me for saying this, but ET's do this all the time. They knowingly feel bad about something (well some of them do) but they still continue to do so despite that.

Their excessive self control, their intellect, their goals, their immense psychic abilities, their knowledge, their technology, their strategy....it all culminates in some kind of monstrosity.

----------------------------

If you put a human being in their position, a normal person would have a reaction so severe that they would not be able to perform as intended.

That lack of control, that inescapable pang of...whatever....makes us (IMO only) superior in that specific sense. That lack of refinement, the lack of ample and excessive intelligence and knowledge, our overriding emotions and a conscience we can't easily control makes it so we can [often] do the RIGHT thing. Not always the best thing, but it guides our collective hands in what we try to do and what we desist from doing.

With the ET....not always the case.

-------------------------------

Could you imagine if you were in a society like theirs....being asked to participate in a kidnapping...then a rape?

How many here would sign up? Raise of hands?

How about a project to intentionally lie to someone and confuse them to the point that they are almost literally brainwashed?

Anyone want to sign up for that?

montalk
03-14-2013, 06:16 AM
I also have a question for you, or anyone. Do you know of any good evidence that drugs like marijuana damage the etheric body? I can't stand the stuff anymore though I used to be a huge stoner.

Did a search and came across this:


Addiction is seen as a symptomatic response to disharmony present within each of the anthroposophical levels of humanistic experience. From an anthroposophical perspective, when a person becomes intoxicated from cannabis a partial separation of the astral body, from the ethereal and physical occurs. Initially, this process results in symptoms such as spontaneous laughter and feeling "high" which is the euphoric feeling experienced from the person energetically raising themselves up above their immediate environment (Dunselman: 2006:99). This is known in the Sophia model as "excarnating." Over time and with long term use, the tendency for the astral body to float up and away from the physical and ethereal, can lead to the person feeling increased levels of apathy and introspection. Furthermore, in chronic use this ongoing separation of the energetic sheathes may cause the opposite feelings to the "high", these being increased levels of fear, anxiety and restlessness (Dunselman: 2006:99). This level of chronic excarnation caused by ongoing cannabis use may lead to cannabis psychosis (Dunselman: 2006:99). ([url=http://www.amiedreyer.com/uploads/1/9/9/1/1991154/cannabis_addiction_essay_name_revised.pdf]PDF Source[/url)

I've known a couple dozen fringe people who smoked pot. My general observation is that while it made them more contemplative and able to see through the B.S. of modern society, it just as much dulled their willpower, sharpness of thinking, and ability to act on their insights. Some handled it better than others.

I'm interested in what aliens think of drug use. Tried looking up different sources, and most are pretty adamant against it. I know two abductees who use pot, and three including myself who have a strong (likely programmed) aversion to it. The only difference is that the two didn't seem to have a role in life of doing lots of heavy thinking, communicating, and critical informing concerning the alien subject. This suggests the two have more leeway regarding the degree to which they may tinker with their mind, body, and soul before it becomes a liability to their abductors' agenda.

montalk
03-14-2013, 07:05 AM
#1 There is too much self control.
Rather than their emotional state dictating their actions, their mentality does. Things are almost always done because they are beneficial rather than because they are RIGHT.

That excessive level of self control leads them to do questionable things.

What would worry me more is if they had no emotions whatsoever, if they projected outwardly the impression of emotions but underneath all you detect is a cold insect-like intelligence engaging in mimicry solely for the sake of control. That's what I would consider truly wrong and broken. That's how I feel about grays when they do the sappy GFOL (space brother) routine.

Having emotions but being able to switch them off, well I see that as good or bad depending on how it's used. If it's a form of self-induced psychopathy to make it easier to carry out malevolent acts, as you suggested is the typical case with ETs, then that's just wrong. Might be an important skill among the Others, if empathy for them is a source of weakness and inefficiency.

Is it ever right to shut off your conscience? Well, I suppose if you were kidnapped and forced against your will to do something, and you had no choice but to either do it and feel it, or do it and not feel it, then maybe. I feel sorry for anyone put into that situation. I can imagine some battlefield medics or EMT techs having to do triage, facing similar anguish and eventually learning how to shut that off and just do their job. Then again, soldiers who commit war crimes also do that.


That lack of control, that inescapable pang of...whatever....makes us (IMO only) superior in that specific sense. That lack of refinement, the lack of ample and excessive intelligence and knowledge, our overriding emotions and a conscience we can't easily control makes it so we can [often] do the RIGHT thing. Not always the best thing, but it guides our collective hands in what we try to do and what we desist from doing.

With the ET....not always the case.

I agree that emotions are a superior asset... when it's working right.

Let's say you had that ET self-control ability, but you purposely leave the spiritual conduit open and just clamp down on irrational emotions that interfere with something good you're trying to do. That seems alright to me. That sounds more like self-mastery and reigning in your animal and ego side than being a cold psychopath. But how many ETs keep themselves from crossing the line into psychopathy, I don't know.

I think emotions are our asset and weakness, and with just the right amount of self control, we could get rid of the weakness part. So when I think about ETs as you described them, I think they're both a logical progression forward and a really tragic deviation or overshooting of what that ability ought to be.

montalk
03-14-2013, 07:20 AM
They come off as being broken in a number of their backgrounds. There is something critical missing.

[...]

It is not like (some) of the ET don't have emotions. Some of them have a wider range of emotions that I have never seen in a human being.

What else have you observed that clued you into there being something fundamentally wrong with them?

When you accidentally peeked through the Advisor's eyes and mind, and you felt how utterly beyond human her mind was, how beyond was it? I've been wondering that for years but never got around to asking for more details.

Was it totally non-human, like she could have easily been some insectoid critter putting up a humanoid front? Was it in line with what you'd expect of a human after generations of genetic engineering and psychic enhancements? Was there anything genuine in there at all?

lycaeus
03-14-2013, 11:00 PM
I know two abductees who use pot, and three including myself who have a strong (likely programmed) aversion to it. The only difference is that the two didn't seem to have a role in life of doing lots of heavy thinking, communicating, and critical informing concerning the alien subject. This suggests the two have more leeway regarding the degree to which they may tinker with their mind, body, and soul before it becomes a liability to their abductors' agenda.
The negative observable effects of weed on the mind and body are enough to conclude that it probably has a bad effect on the subtle bodies. You say that the aversion to the drug is likely programmed. In the case of people who do intense thinking and communication regarding the alien subject, you'd think their programming would be the reverse, more along the lines of "Smoke weed, go to the bar, watch television" that sort of thing. It seems like positive programming and I can't see the kind of people who do abductions wanting to aid those who expose them. Maybe it's programming from a positive source, or maybe the programmers want the abductee's brains in good order for some other purpose.

I'm reading Body Snatchers by Susan Reed (http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/bodysnatchersSusanReed.shtml#5._Colonising_The_Ear th_With_Their_Hybrid_) . She goes into detail with her experiences of reptilians and draconians. They are physical aliens with spaceships and space shuttles, but they interact with her mostly through spirit attachment. Her friend Brian is completely controlled by the reptilian's mind. There was disagreement between her attachments and one of them called Ettish started telling some secrets to make the other alien look bad, with Susan caught in the middle of it. It seems they are completely aware of themselves in the astral plane or other dimension or density and pop into different bodies at will.

Ettish divulged a secret about Karma and it has to do with how we are manipulated beyond this bubble of space-time that we're in here:

[ear ringing...]

(there are a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes, especially by someone with a degree. But she hated the process of writing and probably stressed her way through it, I'm guessing.)

"Here is how Ettissh exposed how they cause karma:


E - A few hundred years ago we deleted certain past lives from your consciousness so that you have to pay back more karma than you should.

Q - Give me an example?

E - a man was an arsonist and then we erase the fact that he got burnt and as a result his subconscious believes that he needs to get burnt again and puts him through burning again in order to experience what he did to someone - payback. Everyone gets this but only those who were here some time back because we did it in one fell swoop (I think this is about 300 years ago). We do it now and again to certain people we don't want here, like new ones. (The next time they will do it will be within the next 18 years)

Q - Where do you erase past lives?

E - in the astral plain - there's a team overseeing it

Q - why do you do it?

E - to keep you down - you are not going anywhere like the astral plane and higher consciousness - your more likely to get harmed by us and you are not going to get enlightened - it keeps everybody in a bit of a terrible state and then we can control people better. High beings that come here to help we implant axe murderer type lives to these people if we catch them so they can't help out - they're in no fit state

Q - how do you catch them?

E - we have a gatekeeper - he sees them coming.

Brian had actually told me that he had erased past lives from my record in the last three years. So I asked Ettissh this.


Q - Why did Brian erase the crippling disease from my past lives.

E - because of his back - he wanted you to suffer -because you really annoy him off the way you didn't care about it,

Q - He doesn't t explain - how am I supposed to know whether he is in pain or not

I asked about the reincarnation of aliens:


Q - what did you do to that person you told me about,-the alien?

E - we did a bit more with him because we don't want his type around - a great deal to him — We put a few past lives in that aren't him but he thinks they are - he was a rapist, an axe murderer, he thinks he has been one-he really mucked up last lifetime - he thinks he did, - a child abuser - it wasn't him , it was some other man- we duplicate past lives, he's still got it — His last life was on another planet and he had a good life and he came down to earth to do a bit more for himself and we mucked his karma up greatly — We kind of made them (implanted past lives) more prominent - we put them in his brain - they are not normally in your brain - they are normally in an altered consciousness state but with him they are in his mind and we have kind of fogged them over.

This karma secret being uncovered has all been totally caused by Ettissh. He had previously observed everything and allowed it, he just doesn't care about his organisation. I then went and investigated it further because I was so frustrated from being stopped from doing alternative auditing, this deals with past lives. The connection of Ettissh meant I couldn't do it. I knew this would sort out all the harm done to my past lives which has caused karma. I had even been told by the reptilians to do auditing which I was really grateful for and in no way was wanting to expose what was told. My karma is still here, no auditing have I been allowed to do by that awful rogue reptilian. I told Ettissh just let me do alternative auditing and I will stop investigating my timeline. He didn't budge. I would say again, I'm finding more out, I will stop if you let me do auditing and no he wouldn't, he kept stopping me doing it. So I kept investigating."

montalk
03-15-2013, 12:11 AM
You say that the aversion to the drug is likely programmed.

Yes, if it's an unusual aversion like an inner "knowing" to stay away that's out of proportion to school anti-drug teachings or "the talk" parents are supposed to give. Is it really a knowing (in the sense of a spiritual kind of intuition) or is it a deeply and artificially imprinted system of standards? And if it wasn't imprinted by school/parents, and you're an abductee, then I conclude it might be alien induced.


In the case of people who do intense thinking and communication regarding the alien subject, you'd think their programming would be the reverse, more along the lines of "Smoke weed, go to the bar, watch television" that sort of thing.

Right, which suggests two possibilities:

1) It was done by aliens who wanted you to be at peak ability, to think hard, to communicate concerning the alien subject.

2) It was done by aliens who do a lot of nefarious experimenting, mind controlling, and interfacing with your mind and soul, and doing drugs might interfere with the stability and responsiveness of what they see as a sensitive piece of equipment.

If you have both of these in your life, then both lead to the same outcome: don't do drugs.

By the way, the two I mentioned who were abductees but had no aversion to weed in life, they were smart and did a lot of thinking and research for their own benefit, but they were never tasked with a responsibility to put it all out there. So maybe because they weren't "on the job," it wasn't as big a deal. As they got more serious about the awakening path, though, they did cut back or quit completely, and told me that as a result they felt clearer and even started dreaming again.

lycaeus
03-15-2013, 12:35 AM
Right, which suggests two possibilities:

1) It was done by aliens who wanted you to be at peak ability, to think hard, to communicate concerning the alien subject.

2) It was done by aliens who do a lot of nefarious experimenting, mind controlling, and interfacing with your mind and soul, and doing drugs might interfere with the stability and responsiveness of what they see as a sensitive piece of equipment.

It sounds like maybe they would want someone like you to become knowledgeable enough on the subject to be taken seriously, and spread information. Then once people start believing you, they would have a high priority target for influencing, by inserting some negative or false ideas into your message. Then you would be valuable as a disinformationist, though that's just hypothetical, I don't think you are at all. Reminds me of a famous channeler.

And I won't rule out programming from positive sources. It's possible I guess though not nearly as common.

montalk
03-15-2013, 02:02 AM
Then once people start believing you, they would have a high priority target for influencing, by inserting some negative or false ideas into your message. Then you would be valuable as a disinformationist, though that's just hypothetical, I don't think you are at all. Reminds me of a famous channeler.

Ever wonder how they turn a thinker into a disinformer? If the person has a sharp intellect, wouldn't he be able to detect the disinformation? Well, turns out you need more than just intellect to guard against that.

To bend a thinker, they would have to hook the disinformation into that person's sacred assumptions, ego insecurities, and intellectual blindspots. They sink their hooks into the layers beneath the ones where logical reasoning takes place, at the level where the target reasons from. This can be done any number of ways.

Once there, the ego/intellect will rationalize and defend it as if its very existence depended on it -- because it does. An attack on that person's beliefs is an attack on their core identity, and like a scared animal it will lash out. When it does so, it will resort to every logical fallacy in the book to appear sensible while protecting its "precious." That's what gives it away: the presence of logical fallacies and the desperation behind the words.

That's why it takes more than intellect. I learned this the hard way many years ago. Beyond sound reasoning, you need self-awareness, self-control, and self-sacrifice. These have more to do with your level of being than level of intellect.

If you aren't able to step outside yourself and respect truth and logic more than your ego, then you'll make compromises. If you do value it more than ego, then you'll be honest with yourself about errors and perform self-correction, iteratively over time.

Now, what percentage of the world's population meets this criteria? I'm guessing less than 1%. It isn't hard to figure out how things will go when aliens show up and address the other 99%.

Fore
03-15-2013, 04:45 AM
What else have you observed that clued you into there being something fundamentally wrong with them? There are so many....

Some of the points were as it was happening, but a lot of it was after the fact and when looking back at the last 20+ years as to how it all evolved.

The thing I want people to understand is that at face value, nothing looks off. The opposite is true. Things look fine and convincing with some moments of questions arising from comments made and overheard by the ET.

It is not obvious when you are knee deep in it. At othertimes some ET sometimes make an offhand comment that leave you with a distinct impression that something is amiss. Usually most of those comments came from the Grey males or (more often than not) people who were visiting and interacting with the ET's as they did the experiments on me or with me.

------------------

The Grey,

They are extremely dishonest until they give up trying to play a standard set of mind games. When I was small I figured this out pretty quickly. They spout something that is clearly false or illogical just to see what you will do in the face of it.

They lie openly without any "need" to do so. While I didn't figure out all that I do know about them at an early age. I did figure out that they are ready to jump in with a lie. The lies are seemingly a manner of their conditioning of people.

They want people to assume things that aren't true. They are professional (I use the term laughingly because they are bad at it) liars. Not so much in the quality, but in the quantity. The Nordics are often the more dangerous liars. They are very good and skilled at it. They are often not like the Grey in terms of quantity. They like precision lies.

They [Nordics] are very good at dressing up things in a certain way that you'll very likely to accept. They don't seem to spout off lies unnecessarily. Only with specific intent. (well most of the time)

----------------------

The things that were off about them....

When a Grey lies to you off to your left, the Nordic person to the right doesn't seem to really react to it. Later on I learned that they do it to hide their tracks. Non-sense makes it much harder to be believed as an account. If they stick non-sense into your mind, then no one will take you seriously. When you recount the events you witnessed.

That is by intentional design. Not by chance.

Fore
03-15-2013, 05:30 AM
The ET's like to play shell games with their deceptions. They don't address the fact that they do it in a serious way.

When someone lies they don't bring attention to it unless it further increases their leverage in a situation. As strange as that sounds, that lack of taking people to task is something that I found very weird to me when I was really young.

They later told me that it is standard procedure to implement false mindsets. That is the norm. When the Grey are ordered by someone like the supervisors to desist, they stop on a dime. They pick up a conversation as if what they said before never happened.

That is something I found very strange, they are cunning but it is (what I later found out) as if they are working on a formula system. Their lies follow a pattern of behavior. When you start to realize there is a pattern and logic to it, they don't appreciate it.

Later on they showed me (and shared) the fact that they have a mental database that guides them on how to interact with people. Anything from how to position a lie to what people are likely to feel if a given condition is present in a situation.

They (Greys) don't seem to understand human behavior in any real way beyond that database. They make educated quesses based on what they see. This is not true with Nordics. Some of the Nordics seem to be intuitively relating to your own experience as a person. They often fully understand what is going on in your head.

Though there are some issues with their understanding. For example, I noticed the Advisor didn't have much innate knowledge of what street behavior is really like. She seemed to come from a sheltered background. I noticed that in her stories of her people she was sometimes too explicit in her mention of topics that didn't seem necessary to expose to me.

For example, the way they pro-create seemed technical and out of touch with what it means to have a baby. She looks human and she understand what having a baby means, but she came off sounding like it was....A process rather than an experience.

Her strange mindset seemed to be more orientated in technical matters than of emotional ties on that topic. She talked about family but she made it sounds like everybody was doing their own thing. She seemed to rarely ever mention them. As a human being, you sort of have family in mind all of the time.

Then she revealed that the Greys weren't her "friends" rather poignantly. She said they were her associates in a very disassociated way. There seems to be very little emotional bonding between the ET. Their group structure is more about function rather than emotional.

The Grey never mentioned any family that I can remember. They didn't seem to have any thoughts of anyone else they might want to be with.

The Advisor more often mentioned how she hated going to sleep in a cramped space up above than she did mention a pang of wanting to be with her husband. I dunno about you, but one thing you learn about dealing with human people is that they always refer to their loved ones quite a bit.

-------------------------------

I would say ET's have secrets that bind between them, they are together and there for a purpose, they don't really seem to have any bonds between them beyond that. They sometimes don't like one another (surprisingly). They are "known strangers" operating as "a group unit"....I guess is the best way to say it.

The strangest thing is they rarely reveal anything of what their lives is like. And if you do mind reading on them to capture glimpses of stuff in their memories you see things that are (years later) found out as classified secrets or you see things which are strange and unfamiliar.

Some of them admit that they are aware of secrets and that you as a peeping tom should never mention anything you see in their mind. (probably good advice)

Other times you see things inside of them that seem incongruent to their nature. Especially if you talk to a Grey.

When you intrude into their personal lives they will almost always lie. When they don't lie and you do pluck something from their head directly, they seemingly become angry and try to downplay what you saw.

-----------------------

Nordics are a mixed bag. Some of them act with curiosity that you know things you shouldn't know about them or their activities. Some of these smile and look at you as if you were a dog with 5 legs. More a benign and interesting smile than anything else.

Other Nordics are unfriendly and passively hostile. They seem to quietly acknowledge you are inferior to them or they sure make you feel it in subtle ways. Some of them look down on you as if you are.

----------------------

Some of the unknown types of ET seem to be more hostile to the fact that you know core information about them than anything else. Sometimes even up to making passive (and sometimes not so passive) recriminations of other ET members. It seems that knowing certain things is somehow a crime or a violation of some kind.

That led me to the conclusion that the expected norm by most ET is for a person to be ignorant. Some of these ET (including Nordics) seems to be afraid of the "what ifs" that may happen.

I suspect, that had they come in the proverbial door and I hadn't known anything of value, they would have addressed me in the notions of ignorance I had been programmed and conditioned to. The fact that this wasn't the case seemed to make them feel hostile towards me.

They seemed to be quietly angered or outraged. Not all ET's acted that way. A number of them seemed to act as if (in their mind) it was an opportunity to talk without the blindfolds on.

Until recently, some of those very types of ET have edged me on to share my knowledge. They used to say that it opens a is a loophole to certain rules regarding some kinds of information disclosures.

montalk
03-17-2013, 08:45 AM
Thanks for that description, that kind of info is hard to come by.



They seemed to be quietly angered or outraged. Not all ET's acted that way. A number of them seemed to act as if (in their mind) it was an opportunity to talk without the blindfolds on.

Until recently, some of those very types of ET have edged me on to share my knowledge. They used to say that it opens a is a loophole to certain rules regarding some kinds of information disclosures.

I've heard of aliens that engage in unsanctioned activities/projects along those lines. Like they're not allowed to officially help us out, but under the radar they do it anyway. The idea is that by doing this, they're meddling with the agenda of other ET groups whom their own faction has an uneasy treaty with. And that would destabilize relations if such activity were officially sanctioned. But if they do it secretly, then they can have their cake and eat it too -- as long as they don't get caught. So they have to be really stealthy.

montalk
03-17-2013, 08:52 AM
I'm reading Body Snatchers by Susan Reed (http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/bodysnatchersSusanReed.shtml#5._Colonising_The_Ear th_With_Their_Hybrid_) . She goes into detail with her experiences of reptilians and draconians. They are physical aliens with spaceships and space shuttles, but they interact with her mostly through spirit attachment. Her friend Brian is completely controlled by the reptilian's mind. There was disagreement between her attachments and one of them called Ettish started telling some secrets to make the other alien look bad, with Susan caught in the middle of it. It seems they are completely aware of themselves in the astral plane or other dimension or density and pop into different bodies at will.

I forgot about Susan Reed's case. It bears a lot of similarity to some of the mind mangler cases I started this thread with.

montalk
04-19-2013, 04:46 AM
Someone recommended I check out Sri Aurobindo's (1872 - 1950) writings on hostile beings. Interesting stuff, as it predates UFOlogy and is based on the Hindu/Buddhist/Sanskrit tradition. Here are some excerpts:

=====

Yes, they [the hostile forces] have their own world and, if they kept to it, there could be no objection to their existence. There is a world that is natural to them and has its own rhythm, its own dharma — just as the lesser gods have theirs. But, they want to dominate the evolution and for that purpose they have taken their station in the vital worlds [etheric plane near our own] which influence the earth nature and give it its materials for life.

They were created or rather manifested like other orders of being as a type or several types expressing some cosmic stress, some possibility in the Infinite, the expression of a certain kind of consciousness and force. When the work that they are permitted to do on earth, the work of negation, perversion, miscreation is finished they will be destroyed here, but there is no reason to suppose that they may not exist in their own universe, as it were, outside the system here. For here their presence is an Adharma [that which is not in accord with the law], a disturbance of the true harmony and natural evolution there should be on the earth plane; it is an intrusion and not a natural presence.

The hostiles have themselves bodies though not of a gross physical kind — they see, but with a subtle seeing that includes not only bodies, but movements of forces, thoughts, feelings.

Very great [are the occult powers of the hostile beings] — it is their occult powers and knowledge of occult processes that make them so strong and effective.

The universe is certainly or has been up to now in appearance a rough and wasteful game with the dice of chance loaded in favour of the Powers of darkness, the Lords of obscurity, falsehood, death and suffering. But we have to take it as it is and find out — if we reject the way out of the old sages — the way to conquer. Spiritual experience shows that there is behind it all a wide terrain of equality, peace, calm, freedom, and it is only by getting into it that we can have the eye that sees and hope to gain the power that conquers.

The hostile Forces are Powers of Darkness who are in revolt against the Light and the Truth and want to keep this world under their rule in darkness and ignorance. Whenever anyone wants to reach the Truth, to realise the Divine, they stand in the way as much as possible.

The Asuras [lesser demigods] and Rakshasas [humanoid demons] etc. do not belong to the earth, but to supraphysical worlds; but they act upon the earth life and dispute the control of human life and character and action with the Gods. They are the Powers of Darkness combating the Powers of Light.

These things [such as temptation by Apsaras [feminine sylph-like beings]] are possible but they do not usually happen — because it is difficult for beings of the subtle worlds to materialise to such an extent or for a long time. They prefer to act by influencing human beings, using them as instruments or taking possession of a human mind and body.

There are two kinds of Asuras [lesser demigods] — one kind were divine in their origin but have fallen from their divinity by self-will and opposition to the intention of the Divine: they are spoken of in the Hindu scriptures as the former or earlier gods; these can be converted and their conversion is indeed necessary for the ultimate purposes of the universe. But the ordinary Asura is not of this character, is not an evolutionary but a typal being and represents a fixed principle of the creation which does not evolve or change and is not intended to do so. These Asuras, as also the other hostile beings, Rakshasas, Pisachas [vampiric entity] and others resemble the devils of the Christian tradition and oppose the divine intention and the evolutionary purpose in the human being; they don’t change the purpose in them for which they exist which is evil, but have to be destroyed like the evil. The Asura has no soul, no psychic being which has to evolve to a higher state; he has only an ego and usually a very powerful ego; he has a mind, sometimes even a highly intellectualised mind; but the basis of his thinking and feeling is vital and not mental, at the service of his desire and not of truth. He is a formation assumed by the life-principle for a particular kind of work and not a divine formation or a soul.

Yes. Some kinds of Asuras are very religious, very fanatical about their religion, very strict about rules of ethical conduct. Others of course are just the opposite. There are others who use spiritual ideas without believing in them to give them a perverted twist and delude the sadhaka. It is what Shakespeare described as the Devil quoting Scripture for his own purpose.

As to Asuras, not many of them have shown signs of repentance or possibility of conversion up to now. It is not surprising that they should be powerful in a world of Ignorance, for they have only to persuade people to follow the established bent of their lower nature, while the Divine calls always for a change of nature. It is not to be wondered at that the Asura has an easier task and more momentary success in his combinations. But that temporary success does not bind the future.

The Asuras are really the dark side of the mental, or more strictly, of the vital mind plane. This mind is the very field of the Asuras. Their main characteristic is egoistic strength and struggle, which refuse the higher law. The Asura has self-control, tapas [volition] and intelligence, but all that for the sake of his ego. On the lower vital plane the corresponding forces we call the Rakshasas which represent violent passions and influences. There are also other kinds of beings on the vital plane which are called the Pisachas and Pramathas [ghosts]. They manifest more or less in the physico-vital.

Some of the vital beings are very intelligent — but they do not make friends with the Light — they only try to avoid destruction and wait their time.

Very few [vital beings] come upon earth — they prefer to get hold of human beings and make them their instruments. They do not evolve. They have no evolved or evolving psychic being and they dread to incarnate just because they would then be obliged to progress and evolve the psychic.

There is no particular number [of vital beings that surround a person] — but sometimes there are particular vital beings that attach themselves to a man if he accepts them.

====

from [I]Letters on Yoga I, Volume 28 - by Sri Aurobindo

lycaeus
04-20-2013, 10:26 PM
Interesting stuff. My belief is that our physical realm is a branch-off world, sandwiched between the lower, darker dimensions, and the higher angelic, light dimensions. People say that our minds or souls exist multidimensionally in other worlds as well as this one while we might not be aware of it. Since the Asuras exist on the mind plane, it makes me think that it is the contents and energetic structure of our mind or soul that allows them access to our life, or blocks them. Like they can act as spiritual evolutionary antagonists to magnify the negative effects of our own thoughts, hopefully leading us to a realization and understanding where we never indulge our lower, darker natures; if you play with fire, prepare to get burned. And if some negative ET's are demonically possessed, then they should be limited in contacting you, depending on your spiritual state, what lessons you need to learn. Some good evidence for this is how some reptilians can't stand the name of Jesus Christ.

montalk
08-08-2013, 08:36 AM
I did some radio interviews recently. Here's a loosely paraphrased transcript of what I talked about: http://montalk.net/alien/255/wising-up-to-alien-interference

The three shows were partly about the strategic alien agenda, and partly about the quasi-alien demonic things discussed on this thread. I also went into some personal experiences in the latter third of the transcript. At the end I mentioned the idea of attrition, which Fore has also discussed, except I believe that posthypnotic programming could also be part of it.

Anyway, that's kept me busy the past month prepping the notes for these.

Fore
08-08-2013, 01:46 PM
Some interesting videos have been released by Montalk:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7oVwGIAYeU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwwdZhNNVCE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosh9AVSnbU

CasperParks
08-09-2013, 04:03 AM
I did some radio interviews recently. Here's a loosely paraphrased transcript of what I talked about: http://montalk.net/alien/255/wising-up-to-alien-interference

The three shows were partly about the strategic alien agenda, and partly about the quasi-alien demonic things discussed on this thread. I also went into some personal experiences in the latter third of the transcript. At the end I mentioned the idea of attrition, which Fore has also discussed, except I believe that posthypnotic programming could also be part of it.

Anyway, that's kept me busy the past month prepping the notes for these.

Good interview.

Fore
08-09-2013, 05:52 AM
Good interview.

If you think that one was good, then you should watch this one where he goes more in depth into various subjects:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahiIzjZ218


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA3CEf0nZwk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxAB0VzNGvE

Part 3 was amazing...

I see he connected some dots that I have never been able to figure out myself. The meat and bones of part 3 starts around 34min. But I highly recommend people set aside some time and watch this interview.

I was amazed that he found a possible connection with the "ethereal tide" and the geophysical changes. It could very well be as he says and I can see the underlying principle behind the idea. I also was surprised how he was able to meld the ideas of "laws of attraction" and "negative feedback loops".

I have more than a few questions and overall I came away with lots of new things I have never really thought about. It was a strong interview with lots of clarity on a wide array of subjects. Lots of details we both have discussed on the forum.

Fore
08-09-2013, 06:11 AM
LOL, ear ringing at 11:11pm.

I guess that was a noteworthy event?

montalk
08-09-2013, 07:16 AM
If you think that one was good, then you should watch this one where he goes more in depth into various subjects:

You wouldn't believe (well actually yes you would) some of the interference I had with that one. First off, 15 minutes prior to the show I get this allergic reaction out of nowhere, eyes watering and throat scratchy and couldn't stop coughing.

Then I had a several instances of "mind block", and I don't just mean forgetting what to say next (as I had the notes right in front of me) but like something sticking a wrench right into the gears of my brain and I'm unable to go on for a minute. And then a throat blocking feeling like a knot in the throat or a vacuum sucking out the air in my lungs, that made it hard to talk.

Almost didn't go through with it. But thank goodness this show was prerecorded. I edited out all the interference and breaks and now there's barely a trace of it in the final version you heard.

montalk
08-09-2013, 07:45 AM
@Fore: I forgot to mention one thing in the episode. You've written about the dangers that come with uncontrolled, too fast, too intense psychic activation. How some people are more susceptible than others to having their biology and mind damaged by it. And how some people are genetically just not suited for running that kind of output.

Well, that makes me wonder about the biological effects of a global change in etheric / influence conditions. What happens if you were to induce on a global scale the same effects that right now are only seen when people are in the presence of some paranormal or alien entity that activates them by proximity? Theoretically speaking, what if that happened to everyone and were sustained for hundreds of years?

Could there be a kind of "overload" apocalypse that sees many people succumb to cancers, neural issues, immune problems, heart attacks, etc... from that? If so, then without the need for any natural cataclysms like earthquakes or volcanoes (though the same mechanism could cause those too) you'd get this massive population reduction.

And that would create a filtering effect whereby the survivors are those who were mentally/genetically suited for these new conditions. Well, this would be one way to quickly mutate the human race just by survival of the psychically fittest. And since they seed the future, wouldn't they and their genetics be of interest right now to aliens who seem to have foreknowledge of their survival? Even if that's not the truth, it's a plausible theory.

Fore
08-09-2013, 03:43 PM
@Fore: I forgot to mention one thing in the episode. You've written about the dangers that come with uncontrolled, too fast, too intense psychic activation. How some people are more susceptible than others to having their biology and mind damaged by it. And how some people are genetically just not suited for running that kind of output. What you ask has a wide spread of answers and subsequent range of possibilities.

The thing that damages people is influence running through [and inside] their system when it is not in a controlled or managed state.

So this begs the question, what happens to someone when they are exposed to high intensity influence fields from the outside?

The best that I can tell from direct experience, you become psychic through concurrent "activations". What causes the activations? Generally passing influence through your system. But this begs the question:

Do people absorb high intensity influence? (the etheric tide as you called it)
As far as I can tell, yes, the interconnect and it's influence centers do absorb external influence. (psychic circulation)

But the big question I don't have an answer to is this:

Do people require external influence to do an activation? (I don't know)
Exactly what affects (beyond internal and external influence circulation) does external influence have on the interconnect and biological body? (Many mysteries)
Do people have a finite supply of "internal" influence? Or is the "external influence" somehow converted and becomes "internal influence"? Or does the interconnect receive it's supply of influence from the food we put into our bodies? Or are we born with a finite [internal] supply?

======================

I can speculate, but I don't know. If I don't know this tiny bit of info, then everything else is somewhat of a mystery. Different entities alluded to different answers. So there is some conflict or a lack of answers.

The Guardian (lower end Angel) said that I have a (large) but limited supply of influence.
The ET's generally avoided telling me where my influence "starts", so there must be a reason as to why they would skip such an important and critical piece of information. I suspect it was "skipped" because the info would have given me ample control over my own abilities OR there is some detail they wanted to hide because it would have affected me negatively...and therefore, probably knowing the truth, I would have not have participated in the experiments. [i.e. that there is a limited supply and I might be going through a lifetimes worth in a very short period of time?]

-------------

The ET's strongly allude to the the interconnect centers having an ability to absorb and convert influence to your own personal living pattern. But they discouraged exercising that notion.

I can affirm this much must be true, as I have seen non-living types doing this all the time.

But that raises the question, is that where we get our main supply of internal influence? Are we all vampires on a spiritual level? If this is the case, then why would non-living entities focus on living entities as their supply line? Why not go out and take it directly from the environment?

-------------

To answer the above, (because I realized this above point many years ago when I was in the thick of it), the non-living entities appear to "prefer" or cannot absorb influence directly from the environment.

I noticed that the living entities tend to take my IFM influence (internal) but not my EFM influence (external).

Why?

There are two possible reasons, either, my EFM structures have a psychic "affinity" that is so strong/great that they cannot effectively siphon or "pull" the influence into themselves.

Or

The EFM configuration is [somehow] not identical to my IFM influence. Which means there is some "specific notion" that I am not aware of that despite there being influence all over the place, for whatever reason, they cannot absorb it.

=================

If they [non-living entities] cannot (or choose not to) absorb specific types of influence from the environment itself...then why would we as living being absorb it?

My best speculation (on this line of thought) is that perhaps there are "nuanced components" to "living influence" and that it may not be "just patterns" in a specific configuration. Perhaps there are specific internal patterns that can only be ?generated? from inside of living tissue?

Fore
08-09-2013, 03:54 PM
Another contrasting point to think about:

Do demons (non-living creatures) that gain possession of a [living] human body change their specific disposition as a "non-living" entity?

As far as I can tell, No. <-- pretty sure on this

As far as I can tell, they seem to rott the living body due to their "deathly" influence patterns. They deteriorate it over time and eventually it expires.

So even a non-living entity taking possession of a living body does not appear to reinstate it's "living" pattern. It seems to absorb the host bodies supply of patterned influence and it generally rotts the body out.

(See the Demon thread on the first page youtube for a prime example)

-----------------------

So again, is there something unique about living bodies that makes living influence work? Is there a separate internal supply that is not found in the exterior environment?

-----------------------

Why did some of the fallen UT require the women of earth to reproduce? Why couldn't they slap together a bag of chemicals make a new strain of artificial genes from zero...and with their advanced knowledge just create a living being out of it?

Why do they require a pre-existing creation to make children?

Can I infer there is some special component in life that cannot be found elsewhere?

Is living influence at a nuanced level a mixture of patterns and possibly something else that makes two different states (non-living vs living) completely different?

Is this "something else" finite or infinite in supply?

Fore
08-09-2013, 04:42 PM
Another point related to the "etheric tide":

I have obviously noted that non-living entities can amp up their influence field at will just like a living being can.

So the living vs non-living states does not appear to remove the ability of an entity to manipulate it's intensified releases.
But both rely primarily on either having a living body, or absorbing from a living body. Why do paranormal entities (in a sea of influence describing the environment) become weakened over time when they are deprived of the ability to siphon influence from a living being?

Would the "Etheric tide" (assuming it is just generic influence at a greater density) make both living and non-living entities more prominent in paranormal effects?

================

I guess it would depend on whether this "etheric tide" brings to the table what makes living and non-living entities produce those exterior influence affects.

Whats stopping montalk right now from pumping up the magnitude of his influence manipulation to the levels of...say a Higher Order being?

Why do higher order beings possess [sometimes] an orders of magnitude of difference than living beings on earth? Is it influence density from the "etheric tide"?

Does the "etheric tide" contain this "unknown element" that appears to make paranormal effects increase in living and non-living beings?

========

I will add a bit more in a small while. I want you to search through the vast volumes of material and research you have had at your disposal to see if you can name what the missing element might be. (because honestly, it is "logically" inferable, but unidentified on my end)

So any ideas you can come up with are as good as my own.

It would lead to an answer of what the "etheric tide" would have to bring to the table to have significant changes on living (and dead) beings.

=========

Personally I think since our organic bodies are written as a genetic code of four or five amino acids. Then possibly our influence code might have a similar notion. (perhaps)

Perhaps if represented, our influence code might read:

AAA, BBB, CCCC, DDDD, EEEE,FFFF, GHIB, HHHH, IIII, JJJJ, GHIB, KKKK,LLLL,MMMM,NNNN,GHIB, OOOO,PPPP

Perhaps in a non-living being they have a similar coding but lack the GHIB symbols which may represent a missing element.

I could surmise that without a GHIB coded influence the entity might not be able to control it's own influence and it would wither away gradually. Perhaps this is why they require living influence.....to collect GHIB influence sequences?

The non-living entities could perhaps find all the other letter sequences in the environment but it would do them no real good without the proportional amount of GHIB sequences. Perhaps when ET's are nearby, their immense and dense fields have a high number of GHIB sequences which facilitate the paranormal abilities?

-----------------

So, if you ask yourself, would the increased "etheric tide" have an affect on the living population and subsequent "leechers" we call non-living entities....you might ask yourself...would the "etheric tide" bring in the GHIB sequences at an increased intensity thereby facilitating living and non-living beings paranormal abilities?

Or would the "etheric tide" simply bring in a greater amount of:

AAA, BBB, CCCC, DDDD, EEEE,FFFF, HHHH, IIII, JJJJ, KKKK,LLLL,MMMM,NNNN, OOOO,PPPP

"influence coded" sequences which may affect nuclear reactions, substantially, but may not affect living beings to the same degree?

====================

I guess it would all depend on what constitutes the influx of an "Etheric tide".

Depending on the composition, it would circulate through the bodies of living and non-living beings and the proportionate paranormal effects would change.

I guess it all depends on the mix of the "Etheric Tide".

montalk
08-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Those are some good points and questions. I have some ideas but no definite conclusions yet. Since yesterday, I have only pondered the differences between life and death, between angels and demons, and between humans and simpler lifeforms. It leads toward the etheric tide idea, but I'm not there yet.

But my thinking process so far is as follows. I'm laying it out so that you can see my reasoning/assumptions and where they differ or match your own:

Humans, animals, plants, and bacteria are all alive and have physical bodies. They must have something in common. Biologically, it is the mitochondria which produce the chemical energy that keeps these bodies alive, but maybe these also produce the "lifeforce" influence fields. That's because once the body dies, the remaining nonphysical component begins weakening. And whatever produces lifeforce in bodies, it can't be complicated because even plants and bacteria have it.

On the other hand, angels don't have physical bodies let alone mitochondria and yet they are very powerful and alive. But not alive in a physically incarnated sense. This shows that we are dealing with two influence patterns then, one generated from the bottom up by physical biology, and one generated from the top down by the highest nonphysical components in a being. Since I don't know what else to call it, I call it spirit.

So then there is physical aliveness and spiritual aliveness. They are related but not the same because a bacterium is physically alive, but not brimming with spiritual vibrance like an angel might be. Likewise, a psychopath can be healthy and physically alive, but is spiritually deadened.

This implies there must also be physical decay/death (obviously) patterns AND spiritual decay/death patterns. Likewise, these two are related but not the same. I suspect demons feed on both. They may be "deathforms" that seek to induce such death/decay patterns because it is what they are born from, made of, and depend upon for their survival.

Maybe they are the personifications of physical and spiritual entropy, decay, death, disintegration. Whereas angels are the personifications of physical and spiritual negentropy. This would mean that negentropic patterns are, fundamentally, caustic to demons because it undoes (goes in the opposite direction) of what defines their essence and keeps them together. The light literally burns them, as they claim.

So when they go after a person who has spirit, demons tempt the person into loss of spiritual power and integrity, and they also aim to induce physical weakening and death. If it were only the latter they wanted, demons could feed on dying trees and hang around swamps (maybe they do) but that's not good enough for them. They also want to destroy spirit. Maybe they feed off the energy/patterns of spiritual decay. I don't know if the spirit itself starts disintegrating and releases energy thereby like nuclear fission, or if part of it merely turns "dark" and begins pumping out dark patterns instead.

Whatever the case, I get the impression that there is an opposite analogue to spirit, a kind of metaphysical black hole that forms the kernel of demons. And when a person betrays their own spirit, this kernel starts to form. That must have something to do with losing protection from HOEs when you do bad things. I don't know if spirit itself provides protection, or is only an 'ID Card' of sorts that qualifies you for protection from higher beings. As I said before, spirit seems like an embryonic HOE to me, or a chip off the same block.

So why a dark kernel, an anti-spirit? Because like you said, demons can become weakened but they don't fully die. Thus they're not like tulpas/thoughtforms that disappear like smoke in air when they are abandoned. Something in a demon remains after everything else has dissipated. And when the opportunity arises, it gathers around itself a field (I think the occultists would call it an astral body) and then when it finds a living host, it also then develops an even denser field (etheric/lifeforce body) that lets it manifest increasing control over physical matter.

But that makes perfect sense, that a field produced by a physicality-oriented mechanism (mitochondria or similar) would give such a being greater presence in physicality. If they don't get that field/energy, then they remain completely nonphysical.

Ok, so what about the spiritual component? Maybe in being fed by a spirituality-oriented mechanism (decay or darkening of the spirit of the host) they gain increasing power and control in the spiritual domain, not only over the host, but over other humans they come in contact with. So that would explain the following situation: a demon who lacks physicality-oriented fields may still have intense power to influence one's emotions, thoughts, and thus affect one's choices and spiritual integrity. It's only when they get sufficient physical lifeforce that they begin displaying physical force powers.

But is the same true for angels? I don't think so. To what extent do angels start weakening when they're away from their home realm? Can they manifest physically and affect our physical environment? If so, where do they get the energy from? Maybe because in being "at the top" of the influence spectrum and being negentropic, physical/lifeforce fields are a natural end-product just as there is a pool of water at the bottom of a waterfall. Whereas for demons, they have to climb "upwards" from their pit to acquire physical tangibility, and that takes energy.

Then another implication is that where angels come from is a realm that represents pure negentropy, life, spiritual growth and vibrance and power. And conversely, where demons come from must be a realm of entropy, death, spiritual decay and anti-spiritual power. And our world has both influences, so we're kind of in the middle.

At the dividing line between the two, you have patterns that are a little bit in the direction of one, and patterns a little in direction of the other. Thus in nature you find on the one hand, flowers and trees and beautiful things, and on the other hand mosquitoes and snakes and wasps and mold. Not that the latter are "evil" it's just that one could add "predation" to the list of: decay, entropy, death.

I bring this up because if you put living plants and flower essences in your home, it would create a different influence environment than if you had mold, dust bunnies, spiders and rotting garbage everywhere. Therefore these things, despite not being sentient like humans or demons, nonetheless carry more life-oriented or death-oriented patterns that point in the direction of spiritual life or spiritual death oriented realms, and they augment/support the latter.

So if angels can easily take on physical form and/or influence the physical environment, and thus don't need to siphon energy from humans to do so, then what does that say about where living physical beings ultimately get their basic energy? Might mitochondria or whatever process does it for bodies, actually be little pinpoint windows into the "Eternity" so to speak? That they're like an osmosis membrane where metaphysical "molecules of life" filter through into the physical domain, thus propelling the phenomenon we know as life? Then if a demonic field were to take over instead, the window to "Eternity" closes and biological disintegration would result. Entropy sets in. If a person starts off with a lot of lifeforce energy, it would take a while to deplete it, but the depletion itself being an entropic / death-oriented process probably gives it an affinity that the demon finds palatable.

Fore
08-11-2013, 01:25 AM
I think our conversation has somehow attracted attention from something unknown.

I fell asleep this afternoon and I experienced an old dream that repeats every few years. Some dream where I became completely lucid. It involved a strange set of circumstances surrounding it.

Roughly, the dream involved some kind of apparent "psyche test" where I became aware that I was attending a family reunion shortly after a marriage. At this meeting "the setting" was apparently set with myself being roughly the age of 7 or so years old. Of someone (unspecified) in my family (a parent?) marrying into someone elses family. The gathering of two families.

Except the other family was many times larger with multiple generations. Someone "inside of my mind" was asking me a strange question. The question being asked is if I would re-accept re-living life from this different vantage point "in this new life" instead of my old one. They asked it as if they were aware, that I was aware and lucid that this was a dream.

The other family was perfectly normal and large (40+ members) with at least three generations. They were nice and welcoming and strangely Christian. I found myself looking at each of them and analyzing them as they spoke to one another on a bus we were on. What I found strange about the offer was the "voice" was asking these strange questions as if this were the second time this has happened? (?)

The thing that my mind (inside the dream) kept analyzing was that the other unfamiliar members of this family were very human and normal. The idea of becoming a part of a "very human" family seemed to make me unsettled (I don't really know why or why I would even focus on that observation point). I looked as this foreign family and my real brother and sister got off the bus. I noticed that my brother and sister were about the same age as I was. I looked down at my own hands and body and noticed that I was about 7 years old. Strange because that is a rare dream condition.

The disembodied voice echoing inside my dream kept asking me if I were left here in this condition would I accept it?

I don't recall what I responded but I think I said I prefer my current life.

--------------------

Then suddenly the scene changed and I was being held by some individuals. They had characteristics that you could tell they weren't human but they weren't ET. They seemed to be malevolent in appearance and human looking but with paranormal guises.

They told me I was being held for an interrogation and being tried. They took me from one room to the next, until they brought me to a room where I recognized all the characters inside the dream from a dream that repeats every few years. I was asked by one of them if I was going to resist being tried and receiving a judgement. I responded I wouldn't unlike previous iterations of the dream.

The malevolent characters appear to laugh with one another and they held me in place by the shoulders. They said that my time had finally come and it would not go well. (?) So being aware that this was a dream I simply raised my voice and said that if I am going to be judged then I will accept judgement from God and not from them. I started to call out to God in the dream and like has always been the case, I could tell that something pervasive seemed to interrupt the dream.

Whatever was creating the dream or "replaying it" seemed to get disrupted as each of the malevolent characters appeared to lock-up. They all started to strangely writhe in pain as if they were in pain...but in unison. It was as if they were all one. (reminds me that in the dream I noted this and kept wondering if they were a legion of some sort.)

A couple of moments passed and then I sensed something from outside the dream "connect" to me, I started noticing something was going on outside the confines of the dream in actual reality.

I started hearing the guardians voice echoing throughout the dream and she was telling me to find a way to leave the dreamscape. I walked from room to room and noticed all the characters seemed to suddenly be frozen in confusion as if something was affecting them. There was the guardians voice telling me to run through the dreams various components until the end until it was completed then I would awake.

I did exactly that, but the characters weren't doing what they were originally supposed to do. As if they were all part of one malevolent mind with various split avatars within the dream. I walked around the avatars with ease as they seemed to be contending with something that wasn't visible in the dream.

Towards the ending scenario, I did what I roughly remembered from memory of the previous incarnations of this dream except without the intervention of the characters as they seemed to be wrestling with something else (it wasn't me?). Which was to stand on some platform that read various settings. Some kind of white ?teleportation platform? that reads various destination settings. There were buttons for going to various places. (Doesn't matter what you really pick it ends the dream from what I remember) I chose a setting I don't recall having chosen before. I chose to a button that read "to heaven". (Hey, I don't know why the dream is strange so forgive my brain!)

I tapped the button just to see what would happen since it always ended the repeat dream. (the dream cycles every couple of years, so I have only had maybe 5 or 6 repeats of this one in my entire lifetime.)

Instead of ending the dream, the characters behind me came out of their "frozen in place" conditions "as if" they had "stopped contending" with whatever it was that was affecting them. They grabbed me from behind and one of them said something strange. They mocked and said if I really thought they would allow me to go there. (?)

They took me to a back room and I broke free and kept wondering why the dream didn't end. Except the dream changed properties in a very strange way. At an intersection between one of the rooms, there was a very strange effect like something out of the twilight zone.

I would step through the room doorway and noticed that I would end up back in the same room I just tried to leave. I found that strange as that didn't happen in any dreams that I can recall. I started wondering what was happening (completely lucid in the dream) because I thought that kind of effect seemed like it should tax my mind. This wasn't part of the dream content and this shouldn't exist.

I then started thinking if I tax my mind enough the content should end. So I thought that if I stand near the boundary and look at both edges of the doorway at the same time it should tax my mind enough to interrupt the dream. But strangely enough it didn't. I saw a rendered optical effect while standing between the doorway. I had a little fun playing around with it for about a minute, wondering why such a taxing effect wouldn't reawaken me automatically.

Then I noticed something about the dreamscape changed. The optical effect at the doorway stopped suddenly and multiple individuals showed up out of nowhere. There were these nice clean characters in the dream and they asked me to come with them. They said that I was being brought to "a judgement room" and asked me whether I would participate in it. I said yes, I had no problem with that.

They nicely led me to a room and then I heard the guardians voice echoing throughout the dream once again. She said the dream would end as soon as I stepped through the door. So I did, and there were a couple of flashing scenes. Someone saying something assuring about "you won't remember the proceeding of the judgement". Followed by someone saying something about "my judgement" results were better than expected and "would I accept the judgment?"

Then the dream suddenly ended after I saw two men looking down at a ditch. Both were commenting on me being in the ditch and said that "my judgement" was somehow favorable. I saw myself working at the bottom of the ditch with some kind of tool, with a few other people.

Fore
08-11-2013, 01:25 AM
------------------------------

I woke up and noticed that my left arm was completely asleep and buzzing and I wondered if I was having a heart attack or something. Then I heard the guardian talk to me about having to intervene. (?) I wondered what she meant and told her it has been a long time since I heard her speak.

She asked me something strange as I was moving my left arm trying to wake it up and wondering why I was experiencing poor circulation in my left arm if I wasn't even sleeping on my side or anything odd like that.

She said I had been attacked but she didn't tell me by what. I didn't sense anything odd in the room.

She asked me if I would accept "the judgement" of my condition? I asked her what she meant? She said that I was experiencing a blood clot running through the side of my heart. She asked me if I would accept the situation or would I remove it by using my own ability to affect my body.

Being fully awake I didn't fully understand yet at the same time I somehow did. She was sort of asking me if I would still use my abilities like in previous times or let things be. I dunno why I was even being asked that. But I told her I would accept whatever has to be. She asked me if I would accept any consequences this clot would bring. I said I don't know, then changed my mind and said I would deal with it and I would not use my abilities to change the circumstances. I would abide by my agreement to live without my abilities.

-----------------------------

She then said that "was a good thing". She then said she would pull out the condition from my chest and the clot would move from there. Then said that I needed to "get up". When she got closer the dense energy representing the clot seemingly got pulled out over 30 seconds. The blood seemed to circulate as soon as she did that. She told me to "get up" again because I was laying in bed still.

She told me to go and take pills to help my circulation. She said that it was important I do this within 20 minutes. I asked her if this was a heart attack. She told me it would not be. But she said it would circulate throughout my insides and I must take my pills to prevent any extra problems.

She told me to "get up" and do what she has told me. Not to fall asleep.

-----------------------------

I got up and took some blood thinners (the pills she was talking about). Then I heard from someone who was awake that they spread bug poison all over because the entire bedroom including tables was covered in a thick coat of insects. That while I was sleeping there was a crazy surging instance where insects were swarming all over the place covering large areas. (there was no food or anything)

(I started wondering about the insects because I have noticed that when demons sometimes show up their influence attracts large surges in insect populations.)

Anyway, something noteworthy happened on my end.

atmjjc
08-11-2013, 02:32 AM
Curious…it was the bus ride that caught my attention.

Did you notice the bus driver…if this was in times past you would have been on a boat type gondola.

The people on the bus with you Fore were recently killed. They were dead and have not realized their situation. Most likely killed in Mexico or maybe the Mideast could have been elsewhere but those were the most likely spots. Their souls were being taken to sort of a soul rehab center for reconditioning.

You and your siblings were let off the bus because you were not dead just along for a basic tour. It is an awakening of some sort for you.

Should of stayed on the bus and brought back information.

Fore
08-11-2013, 07:25 AM
When I read your statement, I went back and re-read my own account to see where you got your idea from. I am now noticing that the beginning and the ending seem to have been connected. It doesn't look like the dream was just "in the way" of the incident. Seems like something was going on behind the scenes as the dream was occurring in my head.

After re-reading it a couple of times it looks like someone was trying to claim me spiritually and there was some kind of struggle through that. I guess the two parties must know something that I don't know. Either case, I am kinda surprised. I wonder what happened in actual reality while I was dreaming and laying there.

Looks like I almost bit the dust and everyone but me knew about it as it happened.

I don't recall having done anything particularly special today except reading montalks post and thinking about the implications. Hardly worth the drama of being approached by two apparent spiritual forces.

It made me realize that old saying in the bible that there is spiritual warfare in unseen places. What I wonder is what set it off? I didn't do anything noteworthy.

And how do they even know when you are about to (or even possibly) bite the dust? Do I have a bullzeye that just points me out? I am going to assume it was just an isolated incident; though I find it hard to believe a demon would know when the right moment comes up to crawl up close.

I mean the conversation and the ear ringing even were the only real noteworthy events in the last day and a half. Besides that, there is really nothing else.

(Which begs the question: montalk you okay over there?)

montalk
08-11-2013, 10:58 AM
I'm alright, thanks. Though starting last month for about 2-3 weeks I had lots of negative dreams, and many people I knew were facing some tough setbacks. This was around the time those trains/planes/ship accidents were all over the news, and also your dad had that close call. The bad dreams have stopped for now, but something is still trying to jack into my head when I sleep, which is nothing new.

Btw, when you had your ringing at 11:11, I had mine about 20 mins afterward, but didn't read your post until later. And I can confirm the bit about insects increasing around times of dark entity presences. I noticed this first in 2002 when ant swarms would come and go in correlation with paranormal problems. Later in Virginia it was with spiders and centipedes mostly.

About your recent problem, well yesterday after writing my previous post I realized I was probably thinking a *bit* too much about demons, at the risk of pinging them. Hope they didn't transfer your way. I can't tell what if anything we discussed constituted a kind of violation that opened you up to punishment.

Fore
08-11-2013, 04:28 PM
I'm alright, thanks. Though starting last month for about 2-3 weeks I had lots of negative dreams, and many people I knew were facing some tough setbacks. This was around the time those trains/planes/ship accidents were all over the news, and also your dad had that close call. The bad dreams have stopped for now, but something is still trying to jack into my head when I sleep, which is nothing new. I noticed when I turned off my abilities that the odd dreams were also reduced.

Now they are pretty normal and kinda lame. There is such a noticeable difference to the dream content that I honestly wonder what I used to have around me that would produce various kinds of content.

I noticed a number of days ago, that when intrusions occurred the background of my dreams also tended to change back to what it was like in the past. Some of it was from me (internally generated).

I never reported it, but around the of this month 4th (or thereabouts) there was an additional spiritual intruder. It was just a ghost. What bugged me was the fact that it didn't try to hide itself. It just stood there and actually tried to approach me. It's influence field was pretty consistent and at least a few decades old.

It kept trying to make itself apparent and that bothered me. It shouldn't even be able to enter the property let alone just stand there. Took a bit more prayer than normal to get it out of the way. But other than these sudden leaks, there hasn't been anything super noteworthy (besides that incident with my dad).


Btw, when you had your ringing at 11:11, I had mine about 20 mins afterward, but didn't read your post until later. That doesn't surprise me. I guess you have your admirers and critics from somewhere "out there".

I wish they would make their scans even more obvious across the board so people take notice of it. I noticed the lady in your most recent interview had some slow down in her speech and an interruption to her thoughts.

I have noticed that people react differently to being actively accessed (mind reading). Some people (human of course) get distracted and have a brain lapse when you psychically scan them.

Sometimes I wondered if it is because their the influence connection through to their cortex is interfering with normal thought processing. Not everyone has the same effect. Alot of people (me included) get sharp headaches instead of the "slow down"/"distracted" effect.

I once asked the advisor about the headaches and she told me the sharp headaches I experienced during some of the psychic experiments were tiny electrical storms in my brain in tiny confined regions. She reminded me back then that the mapping procedures weren't completed and that I should be careful not to strain myself.

Physically it feels like a sharp pain. Sometimes like someone hit you on the head. Lots of people described it as if someone had put a pickaxe through. (An apt description when something doesn't work right)

Other people I experimented with experienced tremors and momentary shakes and a few blackouts for a few seconds.(yes, with their knowledge, and don't worry, the ET were monitoring my tinkering with other people to figure things out on my own. They would tell me what not to do so I didn't hurt others and sometimes stepped in to stop the entire thing.)

What I noticed was that most people would complain about headaches and pressures passing through their head. I don't recall ever hearing about abductee stories mentioning that effect during an active scan. (?)

I also have never heard of people losing their sight for a few seconds during an intense scan. The advisor claimed it was because I had a very bad technique for doing it and that I was supposedly causing PK effects inside their brain tissue. (This turned out to be true) The Grey also used to say roughly the same thing (bad technique) but didn't really give me any idea as to how to do it right. (Back then I didn't have a real fixed routine between tries on people, so I used various techniques like a remotely induced "pressure wave" to "image" the people at a distance.)

Back then I didn't know that tissue inside of people would move (like the advisor claimed) if you applied an abnormal intensity. It wasn't until a long time after that, that I realized body fluids also move against the flow of arteries and veins if you pass influence intensity with the wrong configuration.

===================

Anyway, it was interesting to see the interviewer experience some of that stuff and that she seemingly took notice that something abnormal was happening. I wondered during part of the interview if you actively told her about that kind of phenomena.


And I can confirm the bit about insects increasing around times of dark entity presences. I noticed this first in 2002 when ant swarms would come and go in correlation with paranormal problems. Later in Virginia it was with spiders and centipedes mostly. I noticed it first when I was pretty young and a little kid. LOL you reminded me of me asking one of the demons how I could move an ant like they did. (they wouldn't tell me)


About your recent problem, well yesterday after writing my previous post I realized I was probably thinking a *bit* too much about demons, at the risk of pinging them. Hope they didn't transfer your way. I can't tell what if anything we discussed constituted a kind of violation that opened you up to punishment.Honestly, I don't think I did anything wrong.

I don't even know what really happened. Thats what I don't like about some Angels, they are sometimes extremely cryptic in what they meant by something.

I don't think we did anything wrong. Probably just some malevolent got ticked off with the content of our conversation. I have to admit you gave a lot of good bits to chew on. I am still thinking on alot of the things you've mentioned.

Fore
08-11-2013, 04:41 PM
Most of my thought were on the implications.

You sort of made a strong draft hypothesis that explains why the higher order entities act the way they do and what their apparent goals are. (To build, to create, to expand, nurture etc.

vs

The malevolent types which as you roughly described would destroy, bring to ruin, decimate, reduce, etc.

--------------------

It also clicked in my mind that if there are "ngentropy" orientated higher ups who's primary nature is to build, create and diversify, then it stands to reason that we cannot be the only ones to have been created. There would, by their very nature, probably be other creations like us.

It would also make an interesting statement as to the nature of the conflict.

If the big cheese indulges in ngentropy throughout multiple creations, then someone lower than it that doesn't go along with "its will", would it ultimately come to be at direct odds with it?

I have to think about your ideas for a while and see what I can gather up.

Antares
08-11-2013, 06:30 PM
From whence do these particles come from?

Nothing is created out of nothing.

The "energy-based way" is just further up the food chain than the "ectoplasmic-based way" The foundational source of each are one and same though.

Sorry, but yes, something can be created out of nothing. Vacuum does contain energy, and spontaneously creates enigmatic particles.


Might relate to the Titans of Greek mythology. They were giants, like the Biblical Nephilim. They once ruled the earth during a golden age (i.e. prior to the Fall) but were overthrown by a younger group of gods and imprisoned in Tartarus, which is similar to the Biblical Abyss:.

Tartarus, Hades, Hell, Underworld = Underground. A place where lost civilizations and alien elements dwell, for some incidental reason.

Though you made an error. The Nephilim are the hybird beings of "angels" and mankind. In Greek mythology, the universal forces create the Titans, the first and "true" gods of old, and the "little, younger gods" are their progeny. In Biblical myths the Nephilim are never sent anywhere, they just roam the Earth becoming famous warriors, tyrants or even kings in some cases, starting royalty lines. The Titans are beaten by the "Gods" and humans (human help the battle, they side with the "Gods"). Thw two cannot mix, story-wise (too many differences).

Prometheus the Titan, was pivotal for the first awakening of mankind, calling uponthe wrath of the Gods. He on the other hand, can be linked biblically to Lucifer (or Satan, whichever you prefer, some tend to separate the two as different beings). Some further associate him with Osiris. There've been even connections with Jesus, but I won't go there.


Keel, from Fate magazine, Sept. 2007:
“I returned to Point Pleasant several times in 1967, learning more about the phenomenon with each trip. Several contactees (people who thought they had met the flying saucer occupants) had emerged and I was hypnotizing them and studying them carefully. I found these people had two levels of memory. The first level, the surface level, recalled under hypnosis a fascinating adventure, usually of being taken aboard a wonderful flying saucer. But the hidden level, which was difficult to get at and usually took several hypnotic sessions before it could be reached, rejected the false memory (confabulation) and painted a different picture. Most of these contactees had been transported to a van or house where they were subjected to brain-washing techniques and injected with an unknown substance. They were given a confabulation to remember and were released.

“But no matter how hard I tried I couldn’t find out who was doing this. The whole contactee syndrome was a fraud, but the contactees were innocent victims. Why was anyone going to all the trouble to create these contactees? Many people in West Virginia told me of seeing strange, unmarked vans cruising the back roads at night.”

This hardly proves the contactee and abductee phenomena as a concocted scheme involving layers of manipulation andorchestration. There are too many abductions, contacts and encounters for these people to be involved everywhere, for the same reasons they were in these cases. If even these are true at all. One can assume the second layer is a confabulation not yet breached by this person.


Exactly. And as Martin Cannon and others have pointed out, there's actual real physical evidence, real congressional testimony and objective confirmation of Option D.

For me, the only nonhuman intelligence substantiated to date doesn't come from outer space, it's definitely John Keel / Jacques Vallee style demonology.

It would be wonderful to have confirmation of space aliens, but there isn't a skerrick of evidence for them so far, whereas both MKNAOMI et al and the demonological / "trickster" entities are extremely well documented.

And not coincidentally, researched by the same psychiatrists.

You only see evidence of that because you have a predetermined picture of the universe, how it functions, and how it translates to other aspects of life in our world. So from options A to D, options D sounds definitive while others are derivative, and non-supported with evidence. Yet D can be a solely human factor, but you linked it with demonology, without any evidential, physical link to one another. That points out that I'm right about your predetermined views on this.

Objectively looking, there's more evidence of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, then for the intra-dimensional one, and even less, the intra-dimensional hypothesis being translated in classical demonology style. Mind that you used the phrase, same psychiatrists. IF phenomena is this well documented, it would draw the attention of many other researchers, many whom are even skeptical of the demonologival aspect of this, and if evidence is that big and obvious, they'd come to the same conclusion.


I have a question. Demons are master mimickers and shapeshifters. That they feed off the energy we humans emanate from our innate emotional vibrational spectrum -- could we say that those ETs out there that have been reported as 'energy feeders', like Reptilians, for example, are actually demons in disguise and that it would be fair to say that this particular attribute of any ET that is like that (an energy feeder) is in fact a characteristic that should allow us to identify such so-called ETs or UT's as demons in disguise?
By the way, my understanding of demons is that they are entities/intelligences of the angelic hierarchy in various ancient and modern world religions and philosophical thought systems. Other cultures and religions and esoteric paradigms have other names for them. A demon, for example, is not a low level human disincarnate though they certainly can and do disguise themselves as such.

'Reptoids' are not feeding on human energy, they are very physical beings made of flesh and bone who require physical food to mantain themselves. What people experience is their own version of astral projection, that needs energy to be maintained, and sometimes they can influence behavioral patterns in people when astral projected. Another point in all of this is - often they are called beings without "souls". If one doesn't possess a spirit, it cannot astral project. Obviously, they have astral bodies. And because of this, many people think of them as living in other planes of existence and shoving them in 4th or 5th dimensions sometimes. Even though that's a misnomer on itself, as there is nothing supra-dimensional in a mathematical sense about this. Shapeshifting is performed by advanced technology.
There is another trio set of beings, who is very, very advanced, and are most likely the "head" of the group of civilizations some refer to as the 'Orion Consortium'. The 'arcata', who are fitting the "energetic vampire" niche you guys are talking about here, who have origins from a paralel universe to our own, a universe in which we don't exist (reason why they are here). The other is simply referred to as 'karabum' (whish is assoociated with Cherubim/Cherubs in the holy books) who also are "energy absorbers" like the 'arcata' but they do so in order to use that energy to inffluence the reality and perception of (mentally) less advanced species compared to them. These represent sort of a "left" and "right" hand to the 'chitauri', who are the actual leaders of all of the 29 different groups associated with the 'Orion Consortium'. These can change their form on a molecular level by shere willpower alone, if they have a working sample. If they take a biological sample of a random life form, they can shapeshift into it. They can shapshift into smaller life forms by separating their biomass, or into bigger lfie forms by joining with another 'chitauri'. Sounds like science fiction except that its not. At least the 'kerubs' and 'chitauri' have found place in myths of mankind, because they most likely were here long time ago.
Not everything needs to be explained away by angels and demons.

Antares
08-11-2013, 06:31 PM
Like I said Montalk, you are entitled to your opinion what happens after someone dies but once again, no one knows for sure what exactly happens.

And for the rest of you, i'm not going to be a door mat here and I do not even regret that I said that and I'll say it again if I have to to anyone who is stating their opinion about something in a manner that appears to look as if it's based on something more than just an opinion. .

We all have opinions, true. You can agree or disagree, nobody is pushing yo to go one way or another, you arrive to that place yourself. Now, if somebody presents something as fact, they have the right to do so. You have the right to consider that an opinion and nthing else. Just like everybody else can take your "facts" and consider them opinion too.

That being said, why would one present something in a 'matter of fact' manner? Something must have pushed them in that direction. There is always personal expereince involved, for most, if not all. Speaking for myself, I've been to the 'other side' briefly while a surgery was going the downhill road. The whole "tunnel", circular light thingy did show itself, but luckily, I had been warned in due time before this happened, that I should "not go into the light". In short, what happened was - after some time, all that darkness around the light started showing colors of all kind, and small colored dots that started resembling stars. And yeah, you also gain this weird ... 360 degree vision, for a lack of a better word. Its hard to describe, as we are used to seeing through human eyes. Take this as whatever you want, but countless other people have "seen the light", in NDE.



The same goes for people who claim to be in contact with ET's, higher order whatever's and so on. The reason why is because there may be other intelligences out there who are mimicking and posing as whatever and whoever they choose to be.

You can't fake a physical experience, especially if others have been involved with it too, or if there are indirect consequences of that. There are always ways to find out if who you are communicating with is something else or is in fact what they present themselves to be.




Personally I think since our organic bodies are written as a genetic code of four or five amino acids. Then possibly our influence code might have a similar notion. (perhaps)

Perhaps if represented, our influence code might read:

AAA, BBB, CCCC, DDDD, EEEE,FFFF, GHIB, HHHH, IIII, JJJJ, GHIB, KKKK,LLLL,MMMM,NNNN,GHIB, OOOO,PPPP

Perhaps in a non-living being they have a similar coding but lack the GHIB symbols which may represent a missing element.

I could surmise that without a GHIB coded influence the entity might not be able to control it's own influence and it would wither away gradually. Perhaps this is why they require living influence.....to collect GHIB influence sequences?

The non-living entities could perhaps find all the other letter sequences in the environment but it would do them no real good without the proportional amount of GHIB sequences.
-----------------

Hi Fore, have you thought about this 'influence code' in a more spiritual manner? Say, if spirit, had a 'code' of its own? A unique marker for each life form? Each cell contaning the genetic code of the life form, but also the 'soul code'. This might explain why clones behave just like the original being, but they grow faster and last shorter, and sometimes have a difficulty understanding certain human concepts and emotions, not because they are 'copies', but because the original had time, experience, and multitude of cells containing both gene and soul codes from which to gather and process expereinces, but the 'clone' had no such prolonged time, not enough 'Soul' derivative from which to build a more complete being. On the other hand, we have extraterrestrials, some of which, live up to 300 or 500 years at a time, per lifespan, meaning they must have had 'older souls', or are more spiritually mature than us. The 'soul' code also having access to memories of past lives, of loved ones and family etc., which those who have it in their possesion, can know everything about that person.

This might explain animal mutlations and human cloning, even the whole human simulacra phenomena - they might be making human clones and composite beings on purpose, in order for them to be able to overcome the 'soul' host of the clone more easily, since its not that powerful or saturating the physical body, as its the original human (who they can only partially take over on average). It gives (in my eyes) an interesting picture of the whole incarnates/discarnates situation.



Perhaps when ET's are nearby, their immense and dense fields have a high number of GHIB sequences which facilitate the paranormal abilities?

That's what I meant partially about their long lifetimes. Also their comparatevily amazing physical strength and endurance to us. Even though we may look almost identical to each other (despite many internal organs being different, they don't contribute to the strength and longevity as far as I know). Another testiment to this would be how many people are cabaple of receiving and/or sending thought patterns (telepathy) or transmit emotional patterns (empathy), or they are able to calculate, think, or do things that are impossible to do when they are not present around. I for one, was able to form an incomplete telepathic link with them, but only when they are around, being unable to do the same with another, human person. You might be on to something there.

lycaeus
08-11-2013, 09:44 PM
I had an ear ringing that at 1 42am EST, left ear was loud clear and noticeable while reading this sentence :
"I have seen very little evidence that anyone was helped by fully embracing a belief in nonhuman entities having control over their bodies and minds in a totally random way, or at best as part of some non-human design."

============


'Reptoids' are not feeding on human energy, they are very physical beings made of flesh and bone who require physical food to mantain themselves.
Ken Bakeman gave a detailed account of a supposed physical reptilian strapping him to a machine. It drained his energy and the reptilian got 'high' off it like it was feeding (http://www.kenbakeman.com/alligator_man.html).

I don't know if aliens feed on energy like demons. But humans perform psychic vampirism and some clairvoyants see parasitic tentacles from some people's auras. I think the heavy energy vampirism incidents are more related to demons as for example a reptilian being possessed by a demon. This contactee has close relationships with reptilians and other aliens. Here's a description of 'Malik' which sounds like a reptilian though it could be a demon. I don't think the author's entirely sure herself:

"· Malik is a demonic Incubus and ruler over the Draconian Reptilians

· The Eye symbol of the Draconians is the stomach of the Black Ones like Malik. Malik's hunger pangs rule himself, that then rule over everything that is done in the Agenda. It is all about the Black Ones' hungers."
- http://www.orionmindproject.com/factoids.html

I watched this video the other day. She talks about an alien black goo energy thing, I think it's interdimensional that is infecting the world. It's using humans as a bridge to reach the higher realms to infect that as well. She says it comes from another galaxy. There's no proof here at all of anything but what Montalk talked about regarding demonic, deathly energy climbing up to higher realms I was reminded of this:

Bases 25 Part Two SSS Rachel (Black Goo)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohx7bSeD5bQ&list=HL1376250148
(watch in 'popup' and play in 2X speed)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=ohx7bSeD5bQ&vq=large)

montalk
08-12-2013, 03:53 AM
I don't know if aliens feed on energy like demons. But humans perform psychic vampirism and some clairvoyants see parasitic tentacles from some people's auras. I think the heavy energy vampirism incidents are more related to demons as for example a reptilian being possessed by a demon.

From what I can tell, not all aliens are energy feeders. Or if they are, then not all are doing the direct harvesting, merely the consuming of the refined end product. Just like how we are not all hunters or farmers, because we buy our food at the market.

The more strategy-oriented ones who are behind alien propaganda, grooming of human PR agents, prepping the public for eventual "disclosure", hybrid breeding program, and other genuine military/science/corporate type activities ... they don't seem to have energy vampirism as their main goal.

Meanwhile, allegations against Reptilians of sadism, rape, torture, energy feeding, and human mutilations... those seem like demonically driven traits aimed at destroying the victim and absorbing their soul energy. They'd be the ones staging sham abductions solely for that purpose. But that doesn't mean all abductions are shams. I think some have a definite strategic purpose.

You make a good point that humans can engage in energy vampirism (and those same ones also eat food) so it's not illogical that, say, Reptilians can also engage in both.

montalk
08-12-2013, 04:48 AM
I wonder, is it possible to fill a room with a type of 'influence' that would make it welcoming to both demons and positive entities at the same time? If not, then "dark" and "light" influence patterns are like cold and hot water, in that they are different degrees of the same phenomenon (possibly the entropy/negentropy thing).

Meaning, just as you can't mix boiling water and ice water to cook an egg and chill some fruit in the same pot, you can't have an influence field that enhances both negative and positive lifeforms. Because when you mix them, they neutralize each other.

Therefore the 'etheric tide' cannot both strengthen demons and positive entities at the same time. The idea of a "Golden Age" is that things are good and there's no disease, strife, or suffering. A kind of Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth. Which does not bode well for demons. For that to happen, it would have to be a negentropic spiritual type of influence pattern.

However, can the same be said for ghosts? Here I mean run of the mill deceased humans. Ghosts aren't necessarily demonic. If someone died 5 minutes ago and now they're out of body, they should still respond to a similar range of influence as when they were alive. (That would also explain why flowers, candles, and other "freshening" things may repel or offend negative entities like demons, while supposedly attracting or welcoming benign ghosts and benevolent entities).

Therefore ghosts can be strengthened when and where demons cannot, because they still have human signatures. If an 'etheric tide' is of such a pattern, then ghosts will be enhanced but not demons. I suspect the Biblical prophecy of "dead rising from their graves" could be due to this, or due to numerous people gaining psychic vision and being able to see ghosts.

--

Ok, now think about a room containing a strong psychic who is gushing out a lot of internally generated influence. Supposedly that attracts entities including demons, correct? And yet if I were to step into that room, that psychic's field would likely stimulate me into mild psychic activation as well. Then in that case, strengthening of demons and of psychic abilities can happen at the same time due to a single cause.

So then, what type of influence is being pumped out by the psychic? It's probably not the the negentropic spiritual influence mentioned earlier, the kind that angels and the Holy Spirit and saints emit. Is it something more generic, then, maybe more the physical/biological type of patterns that ordinarily keep the body running?

So if the Earth were irradiated by that type of pattern, the effects would be quite different from what a more positive spiritual type of pattern would do.

--

Which brings me to the following questions:

- What type of influence can/do demons, phantoms, and ghosts feed upon?
- Do they differ in their tastes?
- Can they convert inedible influence into something they find suitable, or must they seek out already existing suitably patterned influence?

Fore
08-12-2013, 01:39 PM
Had another paranormal encounter. Family member noticed it near the back of the house. This time it looks like it was only a ghost (not really sure as I can't sense properly without turning on my abilities).

It left after some prayer as usual. I wonder what keeps bringing them around. (?)


I wonder, is it possible to fill a room with a type of 'influence' that would make it welcoming to both demons and positive entities at the same time? If not, then "dark" and "light" influence patterns are like cold and hot water, in that they are different degrees of the same phenomenon (possibly the entropy/negentropy thing).

Meaning, just as you can't mix boiling water and ice water to cook an egg and chill some fruit in the same pot, you can't have an influence field that enhances both negative and positive lifeforms. Because when you mix them, they neutralize each other. In all my years of experiencing phenomena I have only ever witnessed a couple of Angels notice my psychic output and come down to have a look. But they never did anything but stare intently "as if" assessing the situation. (Which I found bizarre as you'd think they wouldn't do that and have seen everything under the sun by now.)

They never tried to hurt me or anything but it seems to make the other entity types split from the area.

I also have never witnessed any Angel try to absorb influence. If anything, emit intense influence qualities that (like your hypothesis) seems to make negative entities first squirm, then (almost always) run away.

I have seen a few (really astonishingly dumb) demons who try to push the Angels away. The interesting thing about this is that the Angel can sometimes appear to be overwhelmed but it just calls out to another like it and they subdue the entity. Either that or they go at it for a long while and eventually the demon limps away far weaker then when it started. I have long noticed that the Angels are like a dynamo with their stamina. They don't appear to weaken no matter how long they tangle with some entity.

I have always remarked to the stupid (demons) internally that they are dumb if they think they will somehow outlast one of the Higher Order Entities. With the dumb ones I knew, it was always a matter of attrition and the demons always become weaker over the protracted effort. (Not that I mind)

I was maybe in my teens when I noticed the Angels don't appear to have the same problems as the Phantoms and Demons. They don't run out of influence. What they do appear to experience is a sort of mental/spiritual fatigue. The few times I have had a chance to talk to the Angels they remark that they have to take short breaks because they deal with some of the worst situations. They apparently return to their realm after numerous encounters and recharge their...well I don't know how else to put it...."inner peace".

It seems they are more sensitive to certain kinds of 'normal situations' when you are around them. They don't appreciate it if you lie or use a curse word in front of them. Despite appearances the Angels are not apparently perfect by "divine" standards. They appear to have very slight imperfections. By human standard they would probably pass as a saint (well without the various accessory habits).

The slightly higher ones seem to be much (much) less tolerant of your average human nature (and imperfect behaviors). It looks like the higher up they go the closer to perfect they appear to be from what I can glean in what they say. I take it that human nature is not well regarded the higher the ladder goes. The purity seems to be inhuman. Polarized in a different paradigm.

I also noticed that sometimes they watch from the sky and sometimes are assigned an area (or a person, or a group of people). So there appears to be structure in their methods. Some of them make references to others in neighboring areas so that means some kind of patrol behavior. (the watcher class?)

While others appear to originate directly from their realm as they make clear references that they are there under a specific directives from higher up.

======================

Never once have I heard any of them say anything about harvesting influence or anything like that. Just looking at them, they seem to carry a quality you really cannot find on this Earth (and plenty of it). Like a radiant brilliance. Some of them made mention that they get their strength from "the source". (God)

So the best I can figure, they carry their spiritual spotlight-like atmosphere to the exclusion of the average "influence atmosphere" down here. They seem adamant that you be on your best behavior when they are present.

They are the only class of beings that I have ever noticed that uses an invisible system that I don't see anywhere else (not even among the ET). I am not sure they are so much as psychic or influence users as much as something else entirely.

I strongly suspect they are using some kind of "3rd level control" (what I call it). A type of spiritual control over influence and physical physics. Some of them have this strange adaptations like extensions that seem to be similar to what beings like us use for external psychic control.

I am unsure if these externalized extensions or "spiritual clothing" is even anything remotely similar to my own EFM control. They wear their soul in the radiance around them. It's not like (or at least I don't think) these extensions are some sort of real spiritual clothing. The external "clothing" of brillance seem to be an innate part of them.

========================

Frankly, I don't even think they absorb influence like we do. Whatever they run on, it's something of a dissimilar nature. They have intense bands of influence around them, but I am not really sure if it is a part of their body or not beyond the brilliance surrounding them.

I have long assumed that they are using a fundamental layer even more removed than influence. The influence around them probably just reacts to their presence.

I recall seeing a few slightly higher angels who would discharge their influence into storms and seemed to agitate the storms properties if not actually make it. (Yeah, I know, impossible to believe until you notice it more than once and realize they are capable of directing weather phenomena)

(And no, I don't think there is an Angel (LOL) behind every cloud. I think that some natural disaster are caused by them under direction from something higher than them)

In all my life I think I have only noticed a total of three Angels affecting weather phenomena. One of them was even kind enough to let me know that it was about to cause a very close lighting strike. Watching it actually form some kind of abnormally intense weather and watching it discharge extremely intense influence manipulation into the storm. Then watching the spike actually simultaneously cause (very close lightning strikes) is something...bizarre.

It wasn't until year later that I read some chapters in the Bible that I learned they can (and have) actually done that sort of thing. (lightning without clouds for example) Earthquakes, floods, rain, stopping rain perpetually, droughts etc.

I wonder if the Higher Order Beings are known as elementals in some mystical circles for that very reason.

--------------------

In short, I don't think they require the influence from here.

One of the things they used to do at temples that supposedly housed God was they would fast and avoid eating certain foods for lengthy periods of time. Probably so that the human beings with their natural influence circulation would gradually clear away certain influence patterns from inside their field. (like death/entropy related patterns?)

Certain sequences would probably diminish. Sort of like the olden days version of spiritual and influence based quarantine. Cleaning themselves out until they were somewhat clean.

Specifically, they avoided touching or coming near dead things. They used water in rivers and lakes and basins as a method to purify themselves as well. Something which only makes sense if you know about influence and psychic components. So whoever instructed them in these practices doesn't sound human in nature. It doesn't seem they were trying to purify their physical aspects though. Strange and bizarre things (in my mind) for human beings without knowledge of advanced topics to do.

etc etc

Fore
08-12-2013, 04:58 PM
Therefore the 'etheric tide' cannot both strengthen demons and positive entities at the same time. The idea of a "Golden Age" is that things are good and there's no disease, strife, or suffering. A kind of Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth. Which does not bode well for demons. For that to happen, it would have to be a negentropic spiritual type of influence pattern. Actually there is some prophecy in the Biblical texts that mention "the Abyss" is opened up and all sorts of entities come pouring out. (the bad ones)

So the Etheric tide (or background) will probably change or flip several ways before it ultimately polarized as you described.

There is also a coincidental mention that famine and epic death will be the norm around those periods of time. As well as mentions of supernatural beings "stinging men" and people longing to die.

So if such an etheric tide comes around, in both polarities at different times...it will probably be both horrific and benevolent.

That tide has not come in yet. I don't think anyone would want to be alive to see any of it. I just looked up the chapter and it looks like that bad "etheric tide" doesn't take place until near the end. The good "etheric tide" seems to come at the end after the bad one.

Though looking carefully at revelation (re-read almost half of the whole thing just now) it looks like the prophecy is that God will undo the heavens and the earth. (also cited as a prophecy in Islam by the way)

If I am reading it right, it sounds like reality/creation is erased and redone into a new one. In otherwords, there may not be an etheric tide for very long even after all is said and done. But for the purposes of the conversation lets just pretend that won't happen(?)


http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/revelation/9.html

1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.
3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man.
6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men.
8 They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth.
9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.
11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.
12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.
13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."
15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.
16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.
20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

As you can note: The bad "etheric tide" comes and brings in negative beings into our realm whom (not surprisingly and very consistent with their origin) expel a "black mist" and have a "psychic extension" similar to what I already have. (the "golden" ring above their heads is probably similar to my own EFM extension [which is like theirs?].)

The black mist is probably just the miasma from the malevolents realm opening up and pouring out directly into earths environment. Upon analyzing the sequencing, everything makes sense. These types of beings couldn't come here if the earths natural environment were maintained.

But if the Abyss (the void?) is opened up, then all hell would literally break loose. Giving them a good comfortable ambient environment to stalk around in freely. So the sequencing makes sense. Makes you want to take things at face value. Yikes, hopefully I am dead or on the other side by then.

What is bizarre is that a dose of negative influence that intense should kill you on the spot. The fact that these creatures aren't allowed to kill the remaining population on earth is interesting or that their miasma doesn't (or isn't allowed) to kill things like plants and such. So right there, you have an inkling that there is some bizarre supernatural phenomena that shouldn't be.

I am pretty sure if you stuck even a little of that black influence "smoke/miasma" in such a concentration into a room, you'd probably end up killing anything living inside of that room. Plant or animal (human included). That they somehow avoid killing living things is a supernatural miracle in itself.

As if their demonic intentions/nature and various subsequent phenomena are kept in check or on a short leash.

Fore
08-12-2013, 05:45 PM
However, can the same be said for ghosts? Here I mean run of the mill deceased humans. Ghosts aren't necessarily demonic. If someone died 5 minutes ago and now they're out of body, they should still respond to a similar range of influence as when they were alive. (That would also explain why flowers, candles, and other "freshening" things may repel or offend negative entities like demons, while supposedly attracting or welcoming benign ghosts and benevolent entities).

Therefore ghosts can be strengthened when and where demons cannot, because they still have human signatures. I believe you may be right about this.

I have noticed that ghosts (well fresh ones) aren't as badly affected by positive influence. Their fear of it seems to be more mental. Though ones that appear to have been around for a long time, like the one I saw last night, become pretty sensitive to it over time.

When ghosts hang out with demons and they themselves become infused phantoms, then they are pretty much repelled by positive influence.

So I would personally say, as long as they are fresh, they seem to be just like you and me.


If an 'etheric tide' is of such a pattern, then ghosts will be enhanced but not demons. I suspect the Biblical prophecy of "dead rising from their graves" could be due to this, or due to numerous people gaining psychic vision and being able to see ghosts. Probably just the "higher ups" asking them to come out of their graves.

The kinds of supernatural abilities and tasks they handle makes pretty much anything possible. (Though God makes the impossible, possible as it were. Considering He has absolute control over everything. Even the Angels testify to that.)




--

Ok, now think about a room containing a strong psychic who is gushing out a lot of internally generated influence. Supposedly that attracts entities including demons, correct? Yeah. And yet if I were to step into that room, that psychic's field would likely stimulate me into mild psychic activation as well. [/quote] It should, a few variables there, but generally it should.


Then in that case, strengthening of demons and of psychic abilities can happen at the same time due to a single cause.

So then, what type of influence is being pumped out by the psychic? It's probably not the the negentropic spiritual influence mentioned earlier, the kind that angels and the Holy Spirit and saints emit. Is it something more generic, then, maybe more the physical/biological type of patterns that ordinarily keep the body running? Yes, I suppose it would be the physical biological type of influence.

The ET taught me that the only difference between one influence pattern and another....is pretty much only the configuration.

But....they also taught me that influence as a sub-layer of this reality is specific to this universe.

So is there influence where the higher order entities come from? Dunno. Whatever they have, it seems to affect influence as a sub-layer of our reality. I strongly suspect they are actually manipulating reality at a deeper level than just the influence layer.

What is disturbing, is that they seem to have been made in a similar way to our own creation. As if God uses templates and changes certain things.

There is a theory out there that Jesus was the first template around which this entire reality is fashioned around. There are some allusions as Christ seems to make allusions in various places that he was around before anyone of us were. Some people interpret that to mean that Christ = God. But that doesn't seem to be true.

It looks like (to me at least) we, Angels, humans [et al] and all seemed to be tailored around a specific intended design. Even some of the Angels look like us and think in similar ways and all that. Even Heaven seems to be built around similar principles to that of the Earth. The only things that seem dissimilar to that "template" is what is directly surrounding the throne of God itself. (...and who knows what they are designed after? A different or previous creation? Or do they just look freaky for no good reason?)

Honestly, I dunno. But in either case, I think there is a deeper meaning when it says that references Christ as "The Word of God" and through it God created things. (as in, the word/template that fashioned things?)

<shrug>




So if the Earth were irradiated by that type of pattern, the effects would be quite different from what a more positive spiritual type of pattern would do.

-- Yeah, I would agree.


Which brings me to the following questions:

- What type of influence can/do demons, phantoms, and ghosts feed upon? Now that you point it out, I guess living patterns created by living bodies. Physicality seems to make them strong. But non-physical living patterns don't seem to jive well with them.

Interesting thing you pointed out. Never really thought of it that way.



- Do they differ in their tastes? I have seen stories of ghosts who enter the "afterlife" post mortem. They seem relieved by it.

I can't say I have ever heard of a demon feeling all warm and fuzzy when doing the same.


- Can they convert inedible influence into something they find suitable, or must they seek out already existing suitably patterned influence?The million dollar question.

Fore
08-13-2013, 08:02 AM
Hi Fore, have you thought about this 'influence code' in a more spiritual manner? Say, if spirit, had a 'code' of its own? Yes, actually. I have a tentative conclusion that there is a 3rd layer in the mix that isn't influence based. So there does appear to be "spiritual code" and "influence code".

They appear to work like one layer on top of another but are not necessarily the same.

Though my understanding is pretty sketchy at that level (spiritual level). I don't have a very good understanding of what it is exactly. The ET's I met acknowledge the separation of spiritual existence, so I am not alone in that understanding.



A unique marker for each life form? Each cell contaning the genetic code of the life form, but also the 'soul code'. Yes, exactly this appears to be the case.

I have noted that some demons have "familial patterns". Some were apparently a mix of human and something else at some point. Others are "unfamiliar", yet other demons show strange...non-humaniod descendant traits. Infer as you will on that.

As well as living things. There is definitely some relationship based on what biology you were born with. All human beings have overtones that are roughly pretty similar that distinguishes them as human. Even if you put a nordic next to a human you could (even blind folded) tell the difference between them by their influence encoded patterns.

Other living ET have influence encoded patterns that show an ancestry that I am not familiar with. So yes, you could very easily say that living sentient beings have coded patterns after their biology. Even after they die they still show up.



This might explain why clones behave just like the original being, but they grow faster and last shorter, and sometimes have a difficulty understanding certain human concepts and emotions, not because they are 'copies', but because the original had time, experience, and multitude of cells containing both gene and soul codes from which to gather and process expereinces, but the 'clone' had no such prolonged time, not enough 'Soul' derivative from which to build a more complete being. The same ideas that have come across your mind were the same ones I had a long time ago and I asked incessantly (at times) about the details to the ET.

The spiritual aspects (or template) inside a human being during reproduction seems to be transferable to their baby according to the ET. But there are alot of ifs' and buts' cited. Apparently if you have sex with multiple partners who carry various patterns inside them, there are various cross of traits that can pass on to their child. (The template is skewed with multiple underlying parental tones)

The Higher Order beings seem to care about that kind of straight forward development, while human beings generally don't seem to care and neither do the ET (apparently).

The Higher Order beings (pretty clearly) care about mixing different kinds of genetic and spiritual code while ET clearly don't care and human beings generally (up until recently) consider it taboo to do so.

So there is a lot of different answers to your question.




On the other hand, we have extraterrestrials, some of which, live up to 300 or 500 years at a time, per lifespan, meaning they must have had 'older souls', or are more spiritually mature than us. The 'soul' code also having access to memories of past lives, of loved ones and family etc., which those who have it in their possesion, can know everything about that person. I honestly do not know why they have such a long longevity.

I can only say for sure that they produce higher quantities of influence and this appears to help their health. The other notable thing is that different creatures on Earth and off it, seem to be coded differently.

The ET have long taught me that influence is a naturally sub-layer to reality. While the interconnect [subtle body] and it's centers ["chakras"] are composed mostly of Influence, they are said to be fashioned by higher order life forms according to the ET.

So the Interconnect that keeps you alive is made elsewhere "up above" and simply exists alongside your body. It pretty much acts like an invisible relay that keeps you attached and aware of your living biological aspect. The other end of the relay is attached to your spiritual side.

Basically, "You" are three parts in one. According to the ET, the "higher ups" that fashion interconnects to your body before you are born are the ones that establish the consciousness profile that your interconnect will take on. Your interconnect grows and absorbs patterns according to the biology it is infused into.

---------------------

If you put a thousand human beings in a big room, all your influence patterns would fundamentally be extremely similar to one another. The only things that change are some of the content: thoughts and some of the small ways that they consciously process information

But each of the thousand will have a series of patterns that largely don't vary because they are all roughly having the same experience through their specific biology. They also (assuming they are average) all have the same consciousness type and roughly the same capacity for consciousness.

If any of them were based on an ET biology or even a hybrid, those familial overtones encoded in their patterns would vary enough that they would stand out like a black sheep out of the bunch.



This might explain animal mutlations and human cloning, even the whole human simulacra phenomena - they might be making human clones and composite beings on purpose, in order for them to be able to overcome the 'soul' host of the clone more easily, since its not that powerful or saturating the physical body, as its the original human (who they can only partially take over on average). It gives (in my eyes) an interesting picture of the whole incarnates/discarnates situation. I have heard and seen lots of things. Everything from ET's describing projects that involved transplanting the interconnect of a human being into different (non-terrestrial) bodies. (and vice versa)

To strange ideas about transplanting the interconnect of people into dissimilar bodies across genders.

I think alot of the hybrids and ET act differently than a normal human being because they don't have the same consciousness type or even the same neurology or underlying chemical reactions inside their bodies that drive you average human behavior.

If you had a baby with a nordic, chances are if you mixed two templates like that together assuming you don't have a child with freakish abnormalities and assuming they look perfectly human. Their insides won't be the same. The reactions won't be the same.

So while human beings experience certain things in a given scenario, the reactions to a given scenario might not solicit the same reaction.

------------------

As for the intensity of their supernatural traits, I suspect they would be different than their human counterpart by default. Changing the genetic components is like changing the physical hardware. There is more than just that physical layer.

I have no clue if after every generation a spiritual/influence/vitality template would degrade.

There was a saying the advisor used to remark. That my "lifeforce" that is alive (not the word she used) is directly connected to the very beginning of life. That like "a flame" it has always been kept by each successive generation since the start of the chain of life.

Which is an interesting remark, if you think about it.

Fore
08-13-2013, 08:08 AM
I thought you and montalk might find this interesting.

http://www.wimp.com/whatdyslexia/

As you can tell, not all of our brains are wired the same way. In the ET experiments they talked about how brain formation and function was important when they adapted and "mapped" the advanced psychic functions to different regions.

Fore
08-13-2013, 03:09 PM
8:08am

Left ear ringing. Three times in one month, thats pretty unusual.

tl2
08-13-2013, 03:15 PM
Good interview.

Fantastic interview.

Fore, have you ever considered giving interviews?

Fore
08-13-2013, 05:09 PM
Fantastic interview.

Fore, have you ever considered giving interviews??

You seem to think it was me (?), but it was Montalk who made the interviews and the video.

Fore
08-13-2013, 06:01 PM
You wouldn't believe (well actually yes you would) some of the interference I had with that one. First off, 15 minutes prior to the show I get this allergic reaction out of nowhere, eyes watering and throat scratchy and couldn't stop coughing. I have that and a few more symptoms like high levels of "stress" that pops into me when I intend to do something which involves talking.

Recall when I offered you in private to give you a phone number? Well originally the plan was just to give you (and pontif) my direct phone number so we could talk whenever you had the chance. The reason why I always intend to offer it but never carry it through is because the ET appear to have left behind...I think you call it post-hypnotic suggestions?....(I don't recall) which prevent me from "easily" doing that level of interaction.

Like as if they left some kind of security in place which makes me feel ill when I really do intend to "talk". Even specific subjects causes different triggers to go off. Some of the triggers seem to cause a "red flag" which notifies them (somehow?) that I am broaching a topic that I am not supposed to talk about.

(The strange thing is, the trigger doesn't work when we (ET and I) talk idly about various subjects. So the triggers seem to work within a specific context with others who aren't in that ET circle.)

I have learned that writing it on a computer was not as "painful"/"stressing" as writing it down on a piece of paper.

Writing things down on paper seems to trigger a strong and undesirable sensation which is nothing short of debilitating. But writing it as text on the screen is less stressful and seems to mostly only trigger "red flags" which notify them (and me) that something is restricted. This then causes them to intervene anywhere from moments later to hours/days later.

I have tried before, but they always intercept and monitor the conversation. Inducing memory loss in either me, or the target or both simultaneously. The other person is almost always scanned in real time when they notice I am blabbing about something I shouldn't say.

They'll typically step in, telepathically warn you, make you forget what you were saying in mid-sentence, punish you on the spot by psychically throwing your field out of whack and obviously therefore your body that specifically depends on it.

When I push the boundaries people feel strong headaches (from remote scans from above) and some experience chest pains and what some call "a panic attack" that is induced. Only a few people are well adjusted enough to continue. Many simply start to keep their distance.

Some of the ET actually scan the other folk and make it extremely obvious so that people think of it like a deterrent. Some have said they actually experience the remote telepathy in their head. And not too shockingly they hear the exact same messages and warnings on their end thats happening on my end in real time.

(The Advisor was fond of doing that.)

What freaks people out is mostly the body based problems and the subsequent paranoia (they aren't used to the monitoring). But a second symptom that throws them out of the "lets talk" phase is that they actually feel the ET presence inside their mind. Which is "normal" for me, but not for them. So they don't "feel okay" some of the time.

------------------------

Talking aloud about these subjects is about as stressful/"painful" as writing it down on a piece of paper. The reaction is only slightly less intense than trying to write it down.

------------------------

So I was worried that you and Pontif might subsequently think that my discomfort was related to something other than the obvious which I have to endure. (and you probably don't know that...so I can't blame you for it)

One of the side effects of being scanned heavily by an ET, is that your train of thoughts might skip around because of how you are being accessed. It's distracting when they do it "a certain way".

Like for example, when it is a grey doing it "the wrong way", people tend to write and talk like a roller coaster with a start and stop motion. With uneven emphasis even between the start and stop between sentences.

Others stammer because their thoughts are interrupted on a constant basis and the (ever popular) "what were we talking about again?", "Ugh, I don't remember".

-----------------------

Anyway, the human brain and it's influence field affecting it are like a nice symphony. When someone interrupts the smooth flow/procession of the conductor...symptoms happen.

That why I found it funny/amusing/expected when that lady was getting tongue tide in the mid show. And why I found it strange that your earlier show from one year ago seemed to be "too smooth" as if you were reading it from a paper. Not surprised that you revealed it was pre-recorded. Would love to see the unscripted version.




Then I had a several instances of "mind block", and I don't just mean forgetting what to say next (as I had the notes right in front of me) but like something sticking a wrench right into the gears of my brain and I'm unable to go on for a minute. And then a throat blocking feeling like a knot in the throat or a vacuum sucking out the air in my lungs, that made it hard to talk. If you think that was bad, try making it unto art bell.

Then you'll get a heck of alot of symptoms that you will be truly embarrassed about. If the ET are feeling real mean, you might even find yourself flubbing tons of talking points in a continually interrupted pattern, till everyone watching assumes you really don't know what you are talking about.

Or if you come too well prepared they will target the host and it's line of questions to make it an irrelevant event.

I shouldn't even talk about those techniques. The ET taught me how to manipulate talking points when scanning someone so you can control the conversation.

----------------

The problem for the ET is that not only can you use the same techniques to be destructive, you can also use them to be constructive...which is what they really worry about. You don't yet know about alot of what was said to me on those points. I tend to keep that to myself as I am sure it would only make people extremely paranoid.

If all else fails,
their options are to bypass the intended people and go straight for the stability of a supporting platform. Even if they make it obvious, the chances are people will over time assume it was a normal breakdown.

At a radio station that can be defined as the links between the station and the relays or the electrical aspects. In a crowd, that would be finding the accessible paths through the crowd to interrupt and disturb the flow of a conversation and turn a bad (for the ET) series of events into a "ineffectual event (https://www.google.com/search?q=ineffectual)". (lots of useless teachings from way back then)


Almost didn't go through with it. But thank goodness this show was prerecorded. I edited out all the interference and breaks and now there's barely a trace of it in the final version you heard.

How much of it was you reading from a piece of paper? (in the year old one)

vs

The recent one?

Fore
08-13-2013, 06:59 PM
Anyway, the human brain and it's influence field affecting it are like a nice symphony. When someone interrupts the smooth flow/procession of the conductor...symptoms happen.

That why I found it funny/amusing/expected when that lady was getting tongue tide in the mid show. And why I found it strange that your earlier show from one year ago seemed to be "too smooth" as if you were reading it from a paper. Not surprised that you revealed it was pre-recorded. Would love to see the unscripted version.@ People reading

I am going to point out something which I know is...epic bait...and that they (ET) won't avoid.

Did you know, that in one of their disclosures they show you that they can "re-key" a persons thoughts on the fly to change the nature of the conversation? (puts on hard hat and throws self in a trench waiting for the ET to come around...if they haven't already....8:08am to 11:30am is how many hours?)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvAScDUllb4fnvdoondVd7eu4m7F4wP C87-N8sXdYr97O7NbN-Bg

What if I told you all that ET's can access an individual (in real time) and change the chosen phrases and word play choices within a conversation? (in real time)

Would you believe that? Would you be able to stomach such a possibility?

--------------------

So think about that for a second, what if someone (non-human) focusing in on you remotely, could change the sentences you were about to say and use (in real time) just as you picking what you are about to say?

Would that freak you out if they could do that you? How would you feel about that?




Then I had a several instances of "mind block", and I don't just mean forgetting what to say next (as I had the notes right in front of me) but like something sticking a wrench right into the gears of my brain and I'm unable to go on for a minute. And then a throat blocking feeling like a knot in the throat or a vacuum sucking out the air in my lungs, that made it hard to talk. Fore, Lays some more disclosure bait which no ET strategist would avoid addressing...

Ah, so you said you felt a wrench in the gears of your mind.

What if you instead felt a sudden...second to second....impulse to change the way you expressed yourself.

How easy would it be to change the entire nature of a conversation if tapped into two separate people having a conversation?

What if you re-key'ed their thoughts and choices to make the conversation into something different and benign?

Sort of like a telepathic ventriloquist pulling on invisible strings to "enhance/degrade" the words out of living human beings mouth? What if the nature of the conversation could be deterred/encouraged if such a technique were employed.

What if the telepathic ET were interested in killing the meat and bones of a conversation. Controlling both the host and the guest?

If such a thing were possible, then what possibilities open up? (cough cough)


The problem for the ET is that not only can you use the same techniques to be destructive, you can also use them to be constructive...which is what they really worry about. For example, telepathic beings who also possess pre-cognitive insights.

What would they do with such techniques if they could make many trailing conversation in the public domain completely "useless" and "fluffy".

Well, one can wonder. ;)

I bet the NSA and CIA would sell their children (or the nations children) for access to such a capability.

tl2
08-13-2013, 08:19 PM
?

You seem to think it was me (?), but it was Montalk who made the interviews and the video.

I think you mistunderstood.
Yes, I know it was Tom. That is why I asked if YOU had ever considered it? It would be just as interesting as Toms interviews I think.

Fore
08-13-2013, 10:11 PM
I think you mistunderstood.
Yes, I know it was Tom. That is why I asked if YOU had ever considered it? It would be just as interesting as Toms interviews I think.Sorry, for the confusion.

Unless I tackled all the remaining issues, I don't think it would be a wise idea. I am notoriously bad at distilling things and reducing them down to a fine presentation.

I think I lack that capacity as a person. I also think about all the trouble I would incur along the way.

It is probably better to simply spread the information and let whoever wants to take it use it in their own presentations.

--------------------

When people who are writing their own books ask me if it is okay to use the stuff I have presented, I tell them it is fine as long as they don't distort what I have actually said.

--------------------

In an interview, I would have to have a solid understanding of what to say and what not to say when asked a specific question.

I used to have the Advisor pre-screen what I would say in normal conversations. Sometimes rehearsing topics ahead of time with her pre-cognitive cheat sheet of what the other person would ask 24 hours before it actually took place as an informal conversation.

When I joined Open Minds Forum, the Grey members did most of the overview and censoring and even helped in some of the reduction. (Though often, I wasn't exactly happy with all the restrictions and the versions they pushed me into ~a vetted corner~ or it wouldn't go forward)

When I talk online, the majority of it is either pre-screen (up until recently) and rehashed with at least one ET watching what was going through my head and shooting down sensitive topics and telling me what to drop from a post.
So what you saw in the past was an ardous and slow process of putting things out on the table for them and letting them know, then they check it and clear out anything they don't want mentioned in conjunction with other things.

-------------------------------

Up until the last two years or so, the content is coming straight off the top of my head with little pre-planning or pre-scripting or check in's with the ET I used to know. Therefore I mostly stick to what has already been made clear is "okay enough".

For a mild unconcious fear of saying something I am not supposed to. If I were to even talk to you on the phone I would mostly remain silent or there would be long pauses while I wonder what is the right way to say something or do the exact opposite and say too much without any real insight into the later consequences. I am not even supposed to identify who I am as they made it clear time and time again, that would not be a good thing and they promised I would regret it.

I suspect an interview would probably not go well. Issues would be all over the place.

montalk
08-14-2013, 01:47 AM
That why I found it funny/amusing/expected when that lady was getting tongue tide in the mid show. And why I found it strange that your earlier show from one year ago seemed to be "too smooth" as if you were reading it from a paper. Not surprised that you revealed it was pre-recorded. Would love to see the unscripted version.

The moment it happened with her, I knew what was going on. Was going to bring it up after the show, but didn't get the chance (and didn't want to freak her out). I was prepared for that possibility so I had more of my notes written out than usual for the 2nd and 3rd shows with her. We only had an hour for each, and the topic was so important (to me) that I couldn't waste time stammering my way around an idea due to my verbal shortcomings or interference.


How much of it was you reading from a piece of paper? (in the year old one)

vs

The recent one?

For all three Veils Afire (older) shows, the notes looked something like this (following is an excerpt):



What if Etheric energy on earth increased?

1) paranormal activity would increase
- energizes entities, and increases our ability to perceive them
- will blur boundaries between dimensions, allow entities easier time to manifest

2) reality becomes more responsive to thought
- can lead to insanity and "Truman Show" paranoia
- will require that we gain more control over our thoughts and feelings

3) clairvoyant abilities would become activated
- can see ghosts, hence prophecy of dead rising from their graves
- can see cloaked aliens, formerly cloaked aerial traffic

4) shift into altered state of awareness
- heightened intuition
- see people for who they really are
- remember past lives and information cached away in the subconscious

5) will force aliens to reveal themselves
- since we would more easily be able to see them
- they'd have easier time operating here

6) will transform technology
- architecture becomes sacred architecture, chemistry becomes alchemy
- magic and wizardry come back, in the form of a new occult science and alien tech
- life will take on an enhanced, magical, supernatural overtone
- etheric energy used to be higher on earth, Egypt 1600 BC, Europe 700 AD
- ancient examples: Ark of the Covenant, Holy Grail, animated statues of Egypt, semitic teraphim 'talking heads'

7) will impact the earth and sun
- Peter Sturrock from Stanford - neutrinos from sun affect radioactive decay on earth
- Wilhelm Reich - orgone energy affects radioactive decay rates
- Louis Kervran linked neutrinos to alchemical transmutation
- alchemy works by process of etheric energy
- shows link between neutrinos, etheric energy, and radioactive decay
- radioactivity is a quantum thing, which etheric energy affects
- radioactive decay comprises 80% of earth's internal heat
- change in decay rates means change in heat, means shock to the internal convection currents
- major spike in volcanic, seismic activity, earth heat
- same with output of sun, will be affected
- etheric tide therefore may be accompanied by solar, seismic, volcanic upheavals
- could be starting now

8) will allow genetic mutation of human race
- mind influences matter more, DNA becomes more responsive to thought
- we will self-mutate over the generations to match new consciousness, new etheric environment
- gray hybrid breeding program not necessary, and is aimed to hijack this natural process

What causes the etheric tide? possibilities:
- etheric equivalent of nebulas floating around, that we pass through
- radial or spiral emanations from the galactic center that we pass through
- precession of equinoxes, ties into galactic center idea
- supernovas that also pump out etheric energy
- our sun has a twin star, likely a burnt out white dwarf, that is surrounded by an intense etheric field, that comes around periodically [link between etheric energy and electrons]


Those Veils Afire shows I recorded on Skype myself, and afterwards stayed up all night editing it. If it sounded too smooth, it's because I wanted to turn 120 minutes of recording into 90 minutes of content, mainly by editing out unnecessary breaks, pauses, uh's, umms, stuttering, comments that didn't go anywhere, mind block moments, and so on. Those thirty minutes make a difference for people short on time or attention span.

The three short videos I put up, those were read from scripts that I had refined over many months to be as compact as possible. Like 2000 words whittled down to 1000. Then I recorded each sentence several times and edited together the best parts. About an hour of audio trials distilled into a 6 minute video. YouTube doesn't let you re-upload a video to the same link, so it had to be perfect the first time.

As for the recent Illuminating the ShadowLand, the first show was an outline like this:



Tip of iceberg
- lights in the sky
- encounter landed ships in the woods
- people getting abducted for breeding experiments
- impression: out there, only certain people
- only tip of the ice berg
- far more widespread and subtle than that

Widespread Examples:
- aliens telepathically monitor internet forums
- pay attention to what people read and think of them
- who networks with whom
- they can look over your shoulder as you type
- stand by your bed as you sleep and influence
- subtle, not supposed to be obvious.
- don’t have to be an abductee or seen a UFO
- you just have to be useful or a potential concern
- majority of people not interest them

Three Key Abilities:
-teleportation and ships
- invisibility: optical, or dematerialization
- telepathy: read and influence our minds

Where from?
- different theories, likely all of them are true
- future, any number of probable futures
- parallel reality like a second Earth
- higher dimension, project themselves here
- other star system
- most likely a combination, not mutually exclusive
- aliens from a future where they have colonized other star systems and then shifted to a higher dimension of existence.
- varies depending on the alien faction in question


But I wasn't happy with the resistance I got on that one, and knew it would only get worse for the following ones. So for the 2nd and 3rd shows I picked the most essential points I wanted to get across, and wrote them out in full ahead of time. Then I skimmed and paraphrased them on the show. Those were about half of my total responses. This way there was no risk of mind block or going too slow on the essential points. Even with that, it was tough due to the Skype audio feedback and dropouts I was getting. Plus on the 2nd show the host diverted onto other topics and addressed the remaining ones out of order, so I had to rearrange my discussion plan on the fly.


If you think that was bad, try making it unto art bell.

Maybe if I talked at 1/2 speed like his guests usually do, I'd have a nice long time to think about what to say next. Well.... let... me... tell....you...a story...... about ... that... (commercial interrupts).



Then you'll get a heck of alot of symptoms that you will be truly embarrassed about. If the ET are feeling real mean, you might even find yourself flubbing tons of talking points in a continually interrupted pattern, till everyone watching assumes you really don't know what you are talking about.

Or if you come too well prepared they will target the host and it's line of questions to make it an irrelevant event.


I'm sadly aware of those risks. On a related note, about ten years ago a friend calls me up saying hey do you want to do a radio interview tomorrow? I said 24 hours is a pretty short notice, plus I was in the middle of a potential hurricane evacuation. Nice timing there, what are the chances... He said that's okay because he'd be a co-host and would do most of the talking, plus he knew me and my material well. I didn't know better and said ok sure.

I prep a few notes in the form of a mind-map, in the middle of packing up stuff and stressing out in case we had to evacuate. Then I get the call. I was on the air the moment I picked up the phone, and the host informs me that my friend had to cancel at the last moment. Great, now I have 2 hours to carry with a host who knows barely anything about me other than that I was a "conspiracy theorist."

He makes me talk about myself some, and then wants me to recount for the audience the whole Dulce Base story from Phil Schneider ... as if I had just read that recently and have a photographic memory. So between flubbing and not being prepared, safe to say that show did not go well and we called it quits after the first hour. Talk about being set up for a fall with that one. I'm glad it was some small internet show barely anyone remembers, but I didn't do another one until 2008.

Live shows are risky due to all the factors you mentioned. That's why I prefer "irreversible damage" forms of media like print. Take all the time you need to get it perfect, then unleash it. Now that I'm starting to repeat myself on radio shows, and now that a decent set are up on YouTube, I'm going to start cutting back.

epo333
08-14-2013, 03:23 AM
Hi fore, going back few posts, you mentioned that you had contact with the guardian(s)...during a dream


A couple of moments passed and then I sensed something from outside the dream "connect" to me, I started noticing something was going on outside the confines of the dream in actual reality.

I started hearing the guardians voice echoing throughout the dream and she was telling me to find a way to leave the dreamscape. I walked from room to room and noticed all the characters seemed to suddenly be frozen in confusion as if something was affecting them. There was the guardians voice telling me to run through the dreams various components until the end until it was completed then I would awake.

would that be recent, as in the last week or two, or was that contact during the dream at the time you were 7 or so.

I take it as very recent, as you go on later to say...


I woke up and noticed that my left arm was completely asleep and buzzing and I wondered if I was having a heart attack or something. Then I heard the guardian talk to me about having to intervene. (?) I wondered what she meant and told her it has been a long time since I heard her speak.

The real highlight of this contact seems to be her actions to stop an attack on you, and to render physical assistance for a life threatening issue.


She then said that "was a good thing". She then said she would pull out the condition from my chest and the clot would move from there. Then said that I needed to "get up". When she got closer the dense energy representing the clot seemingly got pulled out over 30 seconds. The blood seemed to circulate as soon as she did that. She told me to "get up" again because I was laying in bed still.



...So this leads to my question(s)...(waiting for Alien Mind Manglers' to pass)...

If you haven't been using your abilities, then you must still have a connection in real time to the guardian. After that event (or during) did she mention anything about demons?

Are we approaching a time when she should be in our/your area (so to speak).

I had more questions but they seem to have fled my mind...perhaps later I'll have some more.

pontificator
08-14-2013, 02:06 PM
*chuckles* @Fore, you know, your poke the aliens with a stick post had something connecting to me quite quickly. Interesting thing was that it did not seem like the usual signature/texture. After deliberately trying to connect to it I determined it looks human enough, has blonde hair, is female... well from what I could get of a segment of the face. So, maybe a Nordic for a change, or perhaps another reader, cannot be sure. I'll be filing it with the "to followup" list.

In terms of directing conversations, yes I'm pretty aware that some odd things can happen with that, it also means that they can direct all the people being interviewed in an investigation, as well as the questioners questions. This gives rise to, effectively, fabricated results in terms of reporting and general eyewitness accounts and so on. It's pretty difficult to bust through that kind of programming, but it is possible if you find a way to segment the mind and leave the ET crawling through an isolated mental fragment.

Fore
08-14-2013, 09:49 PM
*chuckles* @Fore, you know, your poke the aliens with a stick post had something connecting to me quite quickly. Interesting thing was that it did not seem like the usual signature/texture. After deliberately trying to connect to it I determined it looks human enough, has blonde hair, is female... well from what I could get of a segment of the face. So, maybe a Nordic for a change, or perhaps another reader, cannot be sure. I'll be filing it with the "to followup" list. Keep an eye out on it.

Also how are your ribs doing?


In terms of directing conversations, yes I'm pretty aware that some odd things can happen with that, it also means that they can direct all the people being interviewed in an investigation, as well as the questioners questions. This gives rise to, effectively, fabricated results in terms of reporting and general eyewitness accounts and so on.

Look, there are different ways of doing simple things which don't require specific control of a persons content. Just their choices in a conversation.

(I want to make it known that I am not saying aliens control all conversations, cause that is crazy talk. What I am saying is that if they specifically focus on someone of interest they can skew two peoples interests in a conversation so that it renders a conversation moot.)

Since this is the Mind Manglers thread it is probably extremely appropriate to mention it here.

Read on, to the next post to see what I am going on about. (Keep in mind, this is something I actually learned from them...actually more than this, but lets not freak you out all at once.)

Fore
08-14-2013, 09:58 PM
When you are taught the procedures, ETs normally signify a conversations effectiveness by showing a telepathic mental diagrams. Each diagram shows you the effectiveness of a conversation.

(pressure is increasing in my head...guess they are scanning me to see where I am going with this? I am going to resort to chopping up the posts into smaller pieces...to prevent any "computer errors" from taking out my text.)

Then, they show you what an extremely effective conversation is as represented by the graphs vs what is an ineffective conversation.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2gt2hkz.png

vs

http://i43.tinypic.com/2rfbkhy.png
Ineffective conversation

Fore
08-14-2013, 10:12 PM
It is safe to say..I am suddenly not feeling very well.

Fore
08-15-2013, 02:50 PM
Hi fore, going back few posts, you mentioned that you had contact with the guardian(s)...during a dream[...]would that be recent, as in the last week or two, or was that contact during the dream at the time you were 7 or so.

I take it as very recent, as you go on later to say... Yes, it was on the same day I reported it.

Something old and familiar (in the paranormal sense) and now in the ET sense.

On the paranormal side of things, the last 15 days has been a reminder to watch on who's toes I step. I think I should learn to not go picking a fight. (bad habits)

On the ET side, three ringings in the last 10 days. Not a good sign and today was the first in depth scan I have felt in...quite a while. Not a good sign. Okay, so I have tested (for the millionth time) that those particular folk are aware and they haven't "disappeared" on me.

I haven't felt the debilitating after effects in quite some time. Again, lesson to self, don't go picking fights when no one is messing with you. Peace and silence go hand in hand. (yet I am still motivated...that is the sad thing)



The real highlight of this contact seems to be her actions to stop an attack on you, and to render physical assistance for a life threatening issue. I don't know exactly what took place. I surmise from summing up the situation of what others told me that something paranormal got in and messed with me.

Tonight I was rudely awoken by a poking finger in my back. Not a good sign. So, I should just relax and keep my peace. That the message I took away from it.

As for the guardian stepping in, that can't be a good sign, neither was the numbed arm which she fixed.

------------------------

My biggest question is why do the two happen together at the same time? I am not emitting influence?? So what is attracting them? The ET? (It's my best guess so far...which infers they might be close by...<wipes away the paranoia>)



...So this leads to my question(s)...(waiting for Alien Mind Manglers' to pass)...

If you haven't been using your abilities, then you must still have a connection in real time to the guardian. After that event (or during) did she mention anything about demons? Honestly I don't recall. I was more worried about my arm being numb and befuddled as to why she was next to me and talking about something I didn't even fully understand.

Being psychically blind is that same as not being clued in. Everything that happens around you is a mystery since you can't see anything to connect the puzzle together.


Are we approaching a time when she should be in our/your area (so to speak).

I had more questions but they seem to have fled my mind...perhaps later I'll have some more.I assume she must be around?

I don't know because if she didn't make it obvious that she was standing right next to me, I wouldn't have really noticed.

Biological eyes and ears don't really do the human senses much justice. I wish I knew the backstory as to what was happening in the lead up to those events.

Fore
08-15-2013, 04:04 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/wiujog.png

I am getting a ton of these. Just killed an otherwise ill thought out post. Not sure if I should be happy it did that for me or not.

Garuda
08-15-2013, 04:23 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/wiujog.png

I am getting a ton of these. Just killed an otherwise ill thought out post. Not sure if I should be happy it did that for me or not.

I had it yesterday for a while.

One of the problems we're facing is the constant onslaught by spammers trying to register, which sometimes effectively has the same effect as a DDOS.

montalk
08-16-2013, 03:57 AM
I don't know exactly what took place. I surmise from summing up the situation of what others told me that something paranormal got in and messed with me.

Tonight I was rudely awoken by a poking finger in my back. Not a good sign. So, I should just relax and keep my peace. That the message I took away from it.

Something caused a bright flash of light in my left eye as I was falling back asleep today. It was one of four interruptions that kept waking me up the very second I'd fall asleep (the other three were errant phone calls and noises, and I can go weeks without those distractions and then they all pile up on the same day).

But the light felt like something nonphysical poking my eye. I've had that before, maybe three times total in the past five years. The very first time I got it, it manifested in my dream as someone shining a flash light at me, or car lights coming at me, the same way a noise in the room might show up in a dream in a veiled manner. But I woke up and noticed it was happening to my physical eyes. And the other times I was starting to fall asleep when it happened. It's not the typical light/boom phenomenon people get when they fall asleep, as that's a brain phenomenon and happens in both "eyes." This was an external zap or poke of some kind.

Some insects have been around this past week as well, and a few days ago my left ear was half deaf after waking up from all the clicking/meddling activity that was going on with it during the previous hour of sleep. It felt like everything from the outer corner of my left eye to below/above/around the ear was a bit inflated or tender from whatever the entity was doing.

So I know that there's been something around here for the past week or so. Haven't had that in a while. Maybe there's a chance I came down with it first, and then it crossed over to you?

In the past I noticed that certain times, like a day before a new moon or during mass deaths and chaos in the world, entities show up more frequently and are more obvious in their activities. Maybe they're strengthened by lifeforce gathered from elsewhere in the world. Or maybe they cause those incidences in the first place, I don't know. But it got me thinking, what if the opening of the Abyss is a result of (rather than the cause) of cataclysms causing mass panic, suffering, death, etc. and therefore polluting the global influence climate with dark patterns, thereby making it easier for demons and such to have their way.

montalk
08-16-2013, 06:53 AM
But it got me thinking, what if the opening of the Abyss is a result of (rather than the cause) of cataclysms causing mass panic, suffering, death, etc. and therefore polluting the global influence climate with dark patterns, thereby making it easier for demons and such to have their way.

Nevermind, I haven't come across anecdotes of demons tangibly manifesting in mass disasters, war zones, and genocides in recent history. So that can't be it.

Another possibility is that some HOEs oversee the general influence conditions on Earth. And that they may be the ones behind the quarantine that went into effect around 1300-900 B.C. They are the gate keepers, and they hold the keys to the Abyss. Maybe the quarantine involves an intentional change in Earth's influence conditions, so that afterwards people started losing second sight more and more. By the time of Greece and Rome, people were thoroughly mired in 5-sense reality and the old "gods" were mere myths and religious beliefs instead of obvious truths.

These HOEs may be in charge of keeping demons from being more rampant than they are. Maybe they let demons have their way when necessary... like when a person does things that relinquishes some of their divine protection. That implies these HOEs are normally there doing the protection by default. Thus they are the ones holding back the demonic realm.

What if it becomes necessary to withdraw protection globally? What if influence conditions then destabilize because normally they are being stabilized by the HOEs? After all, the Holy Spirit and/or HOEs can supposedly totally repair the local space to remove demonic patterns and ruptures. If they stop doing that, things might decay faster. Then it would be like the third Matrix movie where the evil machines finally penetrate into the inner earth city and wreak havoc. You'd have the demonic miasma oozing into "middle earth" from cracks in the walls of our reality.

pontificator
08-16-2013, 12:42 PM
Also how are your ribs doing?


The Ribs are doing fine [They seem to be healed a couple of weeks earlier than expected, but the bone needs to reduce a little still.] However I ran into a major problem my end with something being a nuisance, caused me no-end of grief yesterday afternoon, however I've got all that sorted out now - I'm pretty sure the stress shaved a couple of years off my life, but I was far more worried about the other people than myself.

My field has also developed pretty extremely as well, along with a lot of tones and notes going off; including a pretty rare one I don't normally hear... ahh, just realized something, it went off when the earthquake cluster went off near Wellington... I'm up in Auckland though. Bloody nasties must have been having a field day... so I'll chalk it up to something supernatural causing the current Earthquakes down here, and keep a very attentive mind out for that rare note.

Fore
08-16-2013, 01:17 PM
The Ribs are doing fine [They seem to be healed a couple of weeks earlier than expected, but the bone needs to reduce a little still.] However I ran into a major problem my end with something being a nuisance, caused me no-end of grief yesterday afternoon, however I've got all that sorted out now - I'm pretty sure the stress shaved a couple of years off my life, but I was far more worried about the other people than myself. It means either someone watching is sending stuff to us or we are sharing one (or more) common entity between us.


My field has also developed pretty extremely as well, along with a lot of tones and notes going off; including a pretty rare one I don't normally hear... ahh, just realized something, it went off when the earthquake cluster went off near Wellington... I'm up in Auckland though. Bloody nasties must have been having a field day... so I'll chalk it up to something supernatural causing the current Earthquakes down here, and keep a very attentive mind out for that rare note.Could you and montalk try something I cannot do myself?

I want you to imagine a visualization like what montalk has written previously. Montalk wrote earlier that if mitochondria are making or producing (?somehow?) influence patterns that somehow these can possibly act like little valves that release influence.

I dunno if its accurate or not. But I would like you both to visualize each cell in your body having tiny little microscopic slits (like microscopic windows that mostly remain shuttered or covered) that allow some kind of "white light" to emit through. When you visualize this, imagine the numerous little tiny windows opening up (together) and allowing "a paranormal or supernatural white light" to be released.

I want to see if this causes any reactions in your bodies. Specifically if it changes the rate of influence being generated internally.

When you are done, remember to visualize the slits returning to a closed state.

Let me know if anything happens.

Fore
08-16-2013, 02:14 PM
@ Montalk

I cannot let this opportunity slip by. But I am also going to write under duress most of the time. So I am sorry if these things are not written with much finesse or pre-planning to make sure subjects make sense. I will also write it in brief bursts so that it doesn't make me feel unwell.

-----------------------------

Picking up from post #133 of this thread.

One thing you should know is that this is practical knowledge. They taught this for the purposes of what they said one day I might be utilized for. Back then, I didn't think it was as nefarious as I do now. Though these things can be used constructively as well as destructively, you be the judge.

-----------------

When people talk, they make micro-decisions during a conversation that shapes the effectiveness and duration of the conversation. They (ET) show you graphs that are unlike the venn diagrams I used. The ET converse with you on the principles of conversations and how to control it effectively using both ordinary procedures which involve telepathic monitoring and control as well as ordinary non-psychic forms of control.

Paranormal/Psychic Observation makes the procedures work. An ordinary person without the observation ability will likely not be helped by any of it.

------------------------------
Using psychic observation,
There are Micro-decisions that you can observe from second to second that people make on how to carry on a conversation. Inside of your head there is usually some small decisions you make in the brief pauses between your reply. The telepathic connection can be used along with various different techniques to influence the course of a conversation. (A) Externally (A1) Responsive (B) Internally (B1) Induced

We (ET and I) use(d) various metrics when our abilities are "on" and "in use" to measure the future effectiveness of a conversation.

Fore
08-16-2013, 02:36 PM
(The pressure is building again)

They showed and use(d) many different techniques in lesson that they gave me (many years ago).

Some of the lessons involve watching real time content in a conversation, then using a technique of scanning forward to measure the results from that conversation. Doing it over again and again to adapt/sculpt the current situation into something favorable.

(Keyword uses, phrases used to solicit passive control, re-keying (induced) control in the other participant)

If a brief observations shows that something in the nature of the conversation is inadequate, they show you how to scan sideways into various version(s) of the same event to pick the right content that gives a favorable result. Then you take that content and add it in real time. (This is almost always done in a group, though you can do it solo)

The content of the conversation, rather than flowing like "a real conversation", becomes a tailored package of contents that they pick largely based on the final outcome. It is almost always non-random.

-----------------------------------

I took their own designs and adapted it in my own way so that I could measure the success of written conversations. Taking some of the better outcomes and figuring out what makes them successful.

Sometimes the ET would help me to that end because they could see more specifics using their talents than I could on my own. I turned those very same techniques in a destructive way towards their own agenda. I used it to make points stick without breaking too many of their heavy handed rules.

---------------------------------
Some generic points:

Destructive:
Part of the rules of spoken conversations was that you either don't say or allude to a matter in a conversation and thereby keep throwing curve balls and make a conversation full of fluff. Talk without really saying anything and make the conversation continually miss useful content.

Constructive:
The other side of the same rules is that you draw up a mental list of all the various relevant points you want to communicate to the other person in one or more sessions and introduce them at opportunities you create. If you do it the ET way as shown in their teachings...it is by controlling the other persons mind in the conversation. (telepathically)

Basically, you are in control and they are simply experiencing the conversation under the illusion of self control. Their questions and points they bring up is directly or remotely controlled and observed. You literally are told to have a grip on the other person during having the conversation. Including but not limited to checkups and followups to make sure they "think" along the correct lines of subsequent thought forms that the conversation produces.

(Yellow Flag Event)

You might imagine why even when they spin why they teach you that stuff, you might understand one might balk at the notions.

Fore
08-16-2013, 02:59 PM
In a pre-cognitive circle of ET, you can probably understand that a conversation has no real meaning if it is not ultimately effective.

Seen from their paradigm it makes sense from their point of view. (?)

But that is just superficial in my view. They are control freaks.

There is more, but one drop at a time. I got to see how you react to it. Slowly ease you into it. <--- As you can see, I am actually worried about how you perceive that, and therefore I gauge what I should or shouldn't say next. Sorry about it. It's just a force of habit.

If I had my abilities turned on right now (which I do not), I wouldn't be waiting to ask you about it. I would observe your actual reaction (as in, before-the-fact). Rather than wait till you actually have the reaction (as in after-the-fact)

I would have looked ahead during the end of the first paragraph (two postings ago) and then laid it out the right way till the outcome looks favorable. If no favorable outcome, then simply say nothing. (Simple enough rules right?)

(I should also point out that you would not be aware of that happening as there is no way for you to sense it according to ET teachings and lessons. So unless you were telepathic and read my mind in depth, you wouldn't actually know that it happened.) I just want to make sure you are aware of this point.

montalk
08-16-2013, 11:10 PM
(I should also point out that you would not be aware of that happening as there is no way for you to sense it according to ET teachings and lessons. So unless you were telepathic and read my mind in depth, you wouldn't actually know that it happened.) I just want to make sure you are aware of this point.

Thanks for pushing that info out. So if I understand you correctly, because you (if you were an alien or precog) are adjusting your side of the conversation, I would not necessarily get any signs of scanning or psychic pressuring on my end, therefore I wouldn't be able to detect it solely from my side based on typical sensations associated with such phenomena. If so, that makes sense. It resembles a feedback control loop in engineering. That's where the output is sampled to determine in what manner the input is fed to the system being manipulated.

Well couldn't I treat it like you're a mentalist or salesman or con artist, and then pay attention to how I'm reacting to you, what direction I'm being deviated from my beliefs/thoughts/outlook prior to the conversation, and then check if those deviations might benefit you or your agenda in some way? Or would that also be foreseen in precog, and accounted for? I'm trying to think if it's possible to change the future or make it less "collimated", and therefore water down the precog feedback through some level of awareness of the possibility of manipulation and where it might be heading. Because I can't imagine that being in a spaced out autopilot state, versus being on guard and self-observant, would make no difference, but I could easily be wrong on that.


The other side of the same rules is that you draw up a mental list of all the various relevant points you want to communicate to the other person in one or more sessions and introduce them at opportunities you create. If you do it the ET way as shown in their teachings...it is by controlling the other persons mind in the conversation. (telepathically)

Seems like an effective teaching method too.

montalk
08-16-2013, 11:22 PM
I want you to imagine a visualization like what montalk has written previously. Montalk wrote earlier that if mitochondria are making or producing (?somehow?) influence patterns that somehow these can possibly act like little valves that release influence.

I'll try that in the next couple days and let you know.

For what it's worth, mitochondria have an electric field of 30 million Volts/Meter (but since they are tiny things the actual voltage difference between inner and outer surfaces is only .2 volts). They're like little batteries then. You said charged batteries do something on the influence level that makes you uncomfortable. I wonder if there's a connection. Electric charges affect the rate of time and warp gravity as well.

Fore
08-17-2013, 01:48 AM
I'll try that in the next couple days and let you know.

For what it's worth, mitochondria have an electric field of 30 million Volts/Meter (but since they are tiny things the actual voltage difference between inner and outer surfaces is only .2 volts). They're like little batteries then. You said charged batteries do something on the influence level that makes you uncomfortable. I wonder if there's a connection. Electric charges affect the rate of time and warp gravity as well.

Its not even really a secret and no ones ever told me not to say so in the past...

But the fields emitting around me (like in any other psychic) are just interference with respect to the normal "influence" background. If you flex your "influence" field, the interference it produces affects physics around you like an invisible interference. Likewise, if you stand near electrical circuits of high potential even with insulation on the wire, you can sense the patterns that represent electricity. It is intense and disturbing.

Touching a battery puts you in close proximity to the patterns of electric flow. Standing near a microwave is the same story.

The "influence" field that is emitting into the environment is passing through the insides of a battery the same as it is inside of a microwave while it is on. (even through the faraday cage)

That interference with the environment is what people like me and the ET sense. (many different modes of operation should be noted is the norm)

------------------------

If you stand in front of a sub-station you can sense the immense feedback from all the live circuits even if they aren't emitting very strongly as EMI. It doesn't feel good.

If you flex your "influence field" near the station, in theory, the charges may arc or become temporarily subdued. It's not because my body is electrical nor is my field. But the field itself in effect creates distortions that affect the proper workings and timing of electronics.

If I turn my field "on" right now and extend it towards my monitor the monitor will start to konk out.

Getting a electrical generator to konk out in the same can be as easy as a thought if your field is configured correctly and you assume conscious/super-conscious control over it.

------------------------

By now you have probably heard of demonic presences that when they flex their fields to induce a severe distortion, they (as a side effect) produce temperature drops, static and electrical arcs or discharges, booms in the environment, interference with light phenomena and erratic (or controlled) movement in objects.

You could probably knock out a power station if you set up the right conditions. All you would have to do is generate a pulse of influence that is strong enough to overcome certain processes in the electrical circuits.

The other (more advanced way) is to simply "take a hold" of the various conditions in the circuits and components of a substation and "correct it" through influence manipulation. The elements affected won't produce normal operation at the substation. Even if an electrical engineer does the standard checks.

There is technically nothing wrong with the part, simply the part does not behave as it normally should. Undoing the effect is the same way, simply reconditioning the parts back into their original (or approximate) configuration.

I have done it with peoples cars and trucks in both ways. New and old. While in the street and being driven. (though when it is close to a stop for safety)

----------------------

The only thing that really stops you from affecting circuits is "the noise" that the circuits produce when your personal "influence" crossed into the boundary of the circuit.

The ESP noise can be painful and uncomfortable. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the footprint of your field on the environment.

For example, right now I could pick up the very same battery (and just did) and it doesn't hurt (much). If I extend my field and put it in a different state than passive configuration, it will hurt again. If you are a psychic and you put a battery on your body, your "influence" fields will pick up the interference as "noise". Your brain will process the noise because it exists as an ESP signal.

If you change the configuration of your structures picking up that noise then it will ignore a certain configuration of patterns.

Crystals and certain minerals tend to cause ESP noise that some find pleasing. They seem to get "a high" off the effect.

Edit: There seems to be both an element of internal processing as well as an external [metaphysical] effect.

Fore
08-17-2013, 03:59 AM
Thanks for pushing that info out. So if I understand you correctly, because you (if you were an alien or precog) are adjusting your side of the conversation, I would not necessarily get any signs of scanning or psychic pressuring on my end, therefore I wouldn't be able to detect it solely from my side based on typical sensations associated with such phenomena. Not quite, but you are starting to gain some traction.

If I (as the pre-cognitive ET) scan various outcomes to get an idea of where this conversation should go, would you even notice it?

Imagine this,

(and I may be using actual first hand knowledge which I may not officially admit to...and neither would they)

I sit at my computer terminal and I strike up a conversation with you. I have a topic in mind. I first establish a telepathic connection to your mind, you may or may not sense this more than once.

I then establish a physical side conversation.

Telepathically, I am monitoring the content traversing your mind with a mild level of resolution. I watch the small fluctuations in your mind from second to second with a lag time of a few seconds (near real time). I then establish the functionality of my precognitive abilities and focus in on the ending of our conversation.

Information manifests within my mind, with a resolving capability of what entanglements there are with the end result.

Entanglements: What happens +1 day...[Content]
Entanglements: What does the target feel +1 day....[Content]
Entanglements: General scope of the interactions resulting from that conversation....[Content specific to query]

Resuming the conversation, you and I talk about X topic. Then you start to think of the content you want to discuss. I step up and set the pace knowing the content that is traversing your mind in near real time. The initial exchange takes place.

Measurements are taken of your mind to see what you are currently experience with the present dialog. I then think about the various topics that I want to discuss with you as it related to the topic you bring up.

I then start watching in real time, both how we are doing in real time. (do you experience any discomfort, what are you thinking about so I can address it in a followup, should I adjust the tone of the conversation or the content? etc).

After each input, I examine the +1 day scenario. Are things going well? What didn't we discuss if we continue the current path of the discussion?

Each iteration of checks, increases the likelihood of an effective conversation. You aren't aware of how many future peeks I am taking at any given time. You aren't (and shouldn't be aware) of the ending scenarios that each slight or significant deviation moves away from.

======================

You are pretty spot on calling it a feedback loop.

Though real scenarios...I mean "possible" ;) scenarios include:

Check in with an ET, the ET then examines the inputs and the outputs simultaneously and usually will initiate their own monitoring of both you and I. To keep in check that topics are not being discussed. With ample stern warnings to desist along certain paths which don't make them feel all that "happy".

When connected to the ET network (can be as few as 1 individual) they relay specifics on scenarios with their better resolving capabilities. Indicating when (often hours, days...and yes weeks) there is a problem developing. A scenario which requires some involvement or avoidance. Including receiving updates on wide swaths of groups of people as they fit together as a community. Sometimes this feedback is necessary to avoid specific troubles.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/preamble

A preamble of instructions which mitigate a specific scenario. While sometimes they skip notifying me altogether and instead do it themselves. Or I refuse to cooperate and then things get sketchy and dicey. Like playing an invisible form of leapfrog where we both use our paranormal abilities to constantly readjust the situation in favor of our own outcome. Sometimes putting us at odds with each other. (probably should change "sometimes" to almost all the time)

------------------------------------

When we are at odds with one another (which is often) they tap a proxy, a human resource, and bring them into the confines of a scenario. To target the problem (me) and try to put some dents into the deviations in play.

As I have noted many times before, the problem with a proxy is that they are like sockpuppet, in that they are usually not of a high quality/and usually aren't well trained or "higher functioning" to do the same kind of task. They aren't technically a sycophant because they aren't technically aware of the scenario in play. But they respond to inputs just the same and their array of thoughts and emotions are toyed with just to that end. One of the problems with certain proxies is that under severe inducement to act, they become irrational and they break down.

Anyway,
The nice way of saying it, is that there are many flunkies they can tap. I may be a flunkie, but just not as severely crippled or as bad as some.

[Please note: I am talking very carefully, because whatever they were up to they pulled back. Dunno why, perhaps I will screw this up?]


If so, that makes sense. It resembles a feedback control loop in engineering. That's where the output is sampled to determine in what manner the input is fed to the system being manipulated. Correct. But I only showed you a (possibly real) scenarios where someone may do it in a benign way.

Someone could very well use the above scenario and affect the micro-decisions that a person makes during a conversation. Pull them in the direction that they want and affecting them to that end.

Basically, turning the other person into "a stage character" "in a play" where they are dragged around by the ET in a conversation. So that an uncontrolled situation becomes a controlled and fully predictable scenario.

Fore
08-17-2013, 04:00 AM
Well couldn't I treat it like you're a mentalist or salesman or con artist, and then pay attention to how I'm reacting to you, It would probably not be enough.

There is also the risk that your paranoia would overwhelm your own decision making process. Anyone in the audience wouldn't be aware (at all) of what is really happening in a nefarious scenario. Meaning your own paranoia (if it grows into that) will not be shared by your audience.

-----------------------

The next lesson covers "finding paths through the audience" as shown by the ET lessons. Disturbing to say the least. But if you want to see what is behind the curtain, then you should know of it.


what direction I'm being deviated from my beliefs/thoughts/outlook prior to the conversation, and then check if those deviations might benefit you or your agenda in some way? That would be helpful. Though I don't know by how much if I am really honest about it.

If you over-compensate you can create more problems than it actually resolves.

-----------------------

I should also disclose something which is prudent to point out....and I just forgot what it was...(5 min later)

Ah, the ET scan the audience in a similar process to what I described earlier but for a different purpose. To pluck out what are the factors of resistance.

For example, the usefulness of that is to know what people are thinking about that resists the current agenda. This is to [pre-cognitively] address the issue <ahem> subtly as conversational "content" <ahem> in the course of a conversation.

So lets say I picked up that 2 or 3 people thought that I was trying to make Montalk "a paranoid wreck". Then this would be inserted into the conversation as "an aside" comment with mutual laughter (or insert appropriate emotion or expression] and the fears of such members in an audience would be "silently" addressed.

The ET teach that by human nature and psychology, if you name the things they fear or have in their hearts and head and address it casually as "content" within a normal conversation...then there will be "ease of mind".

As you may be able to glean, this is hardly seeming like a free form, flowing conversation right? More like "a captive audience".

Again, the fact that I am even telling you that much should be evident that I want you to (more or less) understand the procedures and techniques in play. Even if they disturb you, I don't intend to imbalance your behaviors. I just want to make sure you know as much as I do. (well as best as I can manage) <--- err woops, I did the above just now. Sorry about that...

Fore
08-17-2013, 05:06 AM
Or would that also be foreseen in precog, and accounted for? If the "thought process" you describe isn't seen in the [real time] telepathic observation and monitoring, it would probably be picked up as an after event in the [precognitive future insights].

Does it mean it would be ineffective? I don't really know. You could always try and see what results you get. <shrug>



I'm trying to think if it's possible to change the future or make it less "collimated", and therefore water down the precog feedback through some level of awareness of the possibility of manipulation and where it might be heading. There actually is a way, but right now my brain is drawing blank pointers.

I recall there was events which make the scanning not very effective (more random than normal) that made pre-cog work much less effectively. But for the life of me the idea escapes me at the moment. (not surprising)



Because I can't imagine that being in a spaced out autopilot state, versus being on guard and self-observant, would make no difference, but I could easily be wrong on that. There are different ways to observe someones internals without tipping them off.

Some of these methods are only done by ET level skill and fine control. You would probably notice it only at very fine resolution of your own awareness. Not all types of mind reading make physical side reactions.

The only consistent thing I have noticed is that if an ET pushes someone to do something via telepathic control, it makes people irrational/fixated. As if they become mentally unbalanced.

The types of control that cause "stupor" in abductions is not necessary to control the tiny pre-cursors to what eventually becomes what someone thinks about in their head. Some people can be inseminated with a thought and they will run with it unless they notice something abnormal (seen it lots of times).

Other more invasive types of telepathy can modify the states the brain enters into (artificially) and create unusual states of suggestibility or direct control (but not used in these particular applications that I know of).

ET's have a very bad habit of preying on internal content and using that against someone. That is how they put a proxy in play. By using whatever they have in them to "make it happen". Content that can tear apart a community can be easily found if you look inside a few hundred individuals and play on their feelings and thoughts.

Not everything is about suggestibility. There are other methods. (yes, disturbing ones)




Seems like an effective teaching method too.If you use these techniques the right way, you can teach people things they shouldn't know. But there is something lost in the process.

After being embroiled with the ET and their analytical/strategic selves...you sort of find lots of things lacking. Like genuine conversation. (which the advisor was really good at by the way)

Genuine relationship come out of situations which you can't control and shouldn't try to. There is something to be said about not being a control freak (like they almost always are).

lycaeus
08-17-2013, 05:46 PM
It felt like everything from the outer corner of my left eye to below/above/around the ear was a bit inflated or tender from whatever the entity was doing. Today I woke up and my left eye really hurt. Don't know if it's paranormal or if I just slept in a bad position. The right eye's fine but the left hurt to blink and it's been feeling a bit swollen and tight for hours, very dry. I've had this before in the past but it's not usual.

Fore
08-18-2013, 04:38 PM
Hmm,
Montalk hasn't logged in, in two days. Hope all is well.

Anything on those tests Pontif?

montalk
08-18-2013, 07:16 PM
Some stuff came up and I got too busy to post anything, but during that time I was pondering our recent discussion quite a bit.

I was thinking how unless it's an abduction, I haven't really conversed with an alien face to face, or with a psychic/hybrid in everyday life who has enough precog to pull this maneuver. Then again, I might not know it. But I have interacted with people who definitely were proxies or sock puppets. There was one several years ago that tried pretty hard to convert me to the Greer camp but fell apart at the end, and what struck me about that episode was the unusual amount of ear ringings I got during it.

There must be different degrees of puppeteering though. If someone is 100% controlled, then their every word could be tailored by a third party alien using precog (and optionally enhanced with telepathy). They could even incorporate NLP and other tricks. I wonder how widespread that is. Like those temporary bodies grown in chambers... how many of those are walking around, and are they precog-enhanced in what they say and do? But if a person is only being emotionally / subconsciously influenced, then of course it would be more clumsy and with more red flags thrown, which then would alert me, therefore I would really only notice those types.

Or are we talking more about future scenarios where we will come face to face with aliens/hybrids after some "disclosure" event? Trying to think of all the situations where we can reasonably expect to encounter the precog type manipulations.

Fore
08-19-2013, 05:04 AM
Or are we talking more about future scenarios where we will come face to face with aliens/hybrids after some "disclosure" event? Trying to think of all the situations where we can reasonably expect to encounter the precog type manipulations.You can take our conversation in both the immediate present context, the past most definitely and eventually in the future context.

So both apply equally. At least some of the techniques described have already been used on you and others. (benign on my end, though I cannot speak much on what others may have done in the same time frame.)

So I want you to understand that it is already in play or was at one time in play.

I can't do any of that anymore so there is nothing really coming from me except a few techniques that don't require psychic monitoring. (undisclosed for now)

Fore
08-19-2013, 05:23 AM
Some stuff came up and I got too busy to post anything, but during that time I was pondering our recent discussion quite a bit.

I was thinking how unless it's an abduction, I haven't really conversed with an alien face to face, or with a psychic/hybrid in everyday life who has enough precog to pull this maneuver. Then again, I might not know it. You would be unlikely to have noticed it. (not the communication per say, but the actual events themselves themselves which affected you without your direct awareness.)


But I have interacted with people who definitely were proxies or sock puppets. Considering who you once were, and currently are, the likelihood is pretty high. So I am not surprised that you have come across a couple proxies.


There was one several years ago that tried pretty hard to convert me to the Greer camp but fell apart at the end, and what struck me about that episode was the unusual amount of ear ringings I got during it. Yeah, there are ways to modify the effects so that the indicators are less prevalent.

You don't always hear abductees for example mentioning much in the way of ear ringings while in the process of an abduction. Or when they are "handled" by more than one ET throughout the process. Making sure you (and others) understand that is pretty important as a point.


There must be different degrees of puppeteering though. Correct.

And I want to continue dispelling certain notions that the readers out there right now, might get "thought-wise inseminated" with as they read through these postings. This entire discussion is not prevalent in many conversations taking place.

This is simply relating to instances where ET handle people directly. With pinpoint accuracy on one or more individuals and on a moment to moment basis.

An Important understanding: Unlike normal human conversations and techniques. The ET do not require persistent awareness 24/7 of an ongoing community to effectively control where it is heading or what developments take place. They can take snapshots of various conditions at any given moment in real time. They also immediately after take various snapshots of future scenarios. So they can be "away" for periods of time in between. "Persistent awareness" is not required in these techniques.

Only if there is a development that requires a consistent application of manipulation are they really "on it" on a semi-constant basis.

As little as three ET can control an entire community pretty effectively. (if that is what they actually wanted)

--------------------

I know this from first hand experience. Not a speculation.

lycaeus
08-19-2013, 08:10 AM
Fore you've explained a lot about how aliens can control conversations of other people through pre-cog, mind-reading and telepathic persuasion. But what about animating a body similar to how a demon might fully control someone in a total state of possession? Did you ever hear of any living ET taking full control of either a living 'souled' individual or a synthetic human such as a clone? I was wondering if they could just dip in and out of certain people, maybe like cloned presidents or something...

pontificator
08-19-2013, 08:32 AM
It has been very quiet over here all of a sudden... even the background tinnitus is different [far more nuanced, and far more subtle than usual.] This was a bit before [a matter of minutes] I did a quick test on what you put forward. The testing has not revealed anything too remarkable yet, but I think I need to do a bit of tweaking before it works quite right [it does do something.]

There was one thing of note that did happen though, and that was that I felt a pressure void [the sudden absence of influence] near the front right lobe. Following that I had an epiphany and started thinking very carefully on a few things involving directed influence and crystal based circuits that operate on the influence interaction of multiple types of crystal to produce an effect via a transformative cascade reaction. It was certainly not normal. It is also possible the effect produced by the test operates a bit of time before it is initiated.


Hmm,
Montalk hasn't logged in, in two days. Hope all is well.

Anything on those tests Pontif?

Fore
08-19-2013, 10:49 AM
Fore you've explained a lot about how aliens can control conversations of other people through pre-cog, mind-reading and telepathic persuasion. But what about animating a body similar to how a demon might fully control someone in a total state of possession? Did you ever hear of any living ET taking full control of either a living 'souled' individual or a synthetic human such as a clone? Yes.

But there are a few "Buts" and different strategies to create the same effect.

I left the third part of my reply to montalks posting for last because it required a careful wording of topics to make sure I don't cause any misunderstandings.

=================

To answer your question directly, yes they can.

Again, I have to be careful as to how I answer your question so I don't create false impressions and assumption in your head [as to what exactly] I am saying. This is part of what will be covered in my third reply to Montalk.

You can, yes you...a normal ordinary human being...can control someones elses body without ever leaving your own or doing any OBE or anything strange like that. The only problem is, you'd have to have your psychic extension be well developed and you would need to possess a stable and accurate means of turning intent into a meaningful psychic event.

Most psychics on this Earth don't have this, that is why you never hear of it happening in any paranormal stories. It wouldn't be common place down here.

You will hear of it in a couple of ET encounter stories where telepathic ET are involved. Though some folks going through it may not remember the event in it's totality considering the various protocols they employ and the care they sometimes cite as being required.

==================

The shortest answer to your question is simply that your influence fields are turned "on". The inner ones are typical targets. These inner influence fields inside your body carry pathways of information. In order to control the pathways at several key points the ET said they have to override or suspend meaningful processes which enable you to exert control over your own body.

They can't knock you completely unconscious because your body and neurology won't typically work without it's base functions being operational. So they induce brain phenomena which can be done in several different ways. One of them is to put you (the consciousness that is you) into a specific state where your own influence pathway signals aren't interfering with externally induced pathways.

Various modes can be a limited cognition where you are in an induced stupor. Your brain is still active and cycling but your ability to reconcile movement of your own body is impaired. You are not really "awake" or "aware". According to the memories they showed me of the people they handled in the past, you have your eyes open but you are not truly cognizant. Typically, the ability to store memory is tuned way out. So for those people under going that, moments of their lives are not being recorded into their conscious recollection.

You can think of it like you don't recall the moment between you closing your eyes and the first moment you start dreaming. There is a span of time where your cognition stops establishing short term memory. A similar state is employed in those folks.

From that specific mode, signals can be induced into your inner influence fields and your body will respond to it as if they were being sent from your own mindset. You can walk and do basic tasks but you aren't really awake even though your eyes are open. The folks are basically under a remote control session from afar.

------------

There are other versions.

One of the most intriguing I heard was a show and tell story when I asked the advisor about abductions. She told me about specific info on what some people experience when they are returned.

Did you know, according to her (at that time) the folks who are returned aren't always asleep?

Some of them are returned with their eyes open in a specialized state...and the interesting things is she claimed there is a short lapse of time when the individuals brain hardware returns to it's normal state in a controlled fashion where they "come to".

The absolutely interesting thing I recall her recounting to me at the time was that she said the restoration procedure is done remotely and the person slowly (cognitively) returns to what you or I would call a normal state of awareness. The odd thing was, she said they wouldn't remember the departure of the ET. They won't recall what happened.

I have noticed that after reading a few encounter stories, that no one does seem to recall how they got back into bed or for the ones who were "awake" when they were returned, don't recall the lapse of time as to how they got there.

I found that interesting when comparing it to her detailed claims and info.

===============

The closest hollywood depiction I ever saw that resembled this was in the modern series "battle star galactica" near the beginning where the character "Boomer" comes to all wet and sitting down but she isn't aware as to why she is wet or what she is holding.

If anyone know of this scene I would appreciate you posting it.


I was wondering if they could just dip in and out of certain people, maybe like cloned presidents or something...No, not like a spiritual entity.

There has to be a sort of cascading set of processes in play to really do that. It can be done but there have to be workaround in play in order for it to function.

For example, if they wanted you to involuntarily put your hand over your head. They can tap the data that is in your influence field and raise your arm above your head right now.

The problem is, that A) you wouldn't consciously realize you did this until a few seconds later, and the action might be "corrupted" by your own primary control over your body. In other words, you didn't intend it, but your body moved and you wouldn't immediately notice it...because you didn't tell it to move. (not you at least)

-------------------------

"Corruption": if you suddenly corrupt the internal influence pathway carrying the encoded data by issuing a different intent, the action wouldn't be smooth. You would probably bump the side of your head if you suddenly used that very arm during the movement.

This is part of the reason that altered states are used. Without impairment you would corrupt the external inducement of control.

-----------------------
Anyway,
Once it did happen, (like we discussed many years ago on this topic) you would probably be traumatized mentally at the realization and fact that your body just performed an action outside your direct intention and control. I have heard the Grey mention that the trauma of losing control over your own body even for a second is supposedly traumatizing for a human being.

I can only imagine it probably would be.

I once dared the Advisor (many years ago) when I was learning a different set of subject to do that to me. She refused, stating that it would induce a powerful fear inside me and complicate our relationship. (This by the way was a discussion that happened [chronologically] before the above reference was discussed)

She compromised on an example and she told me to sit down. Then I felt weird in my head. She told me to get up. And even though I wanted to get up, there was some sort of interference at a mental level, like a queasy contention between she and I. Like a mental level contention that I couldn't get up.

She then did the same thing in several ways. One of the tasks she told me was to move my own arm and the same strange feeling happened. I couldn't move it even though I wanted to. The thing she did not do, was move my arm for me. She simply prevented me from somehow moving. Even while standing in one of the attempts. I didn't fall down even though I was standing upright . It's as if she was preventing me from exerting control through my own mind.

She never once made me move without my control. She kept stating that I would be extremely afraid if she did that.

And thinking back on it, she was right, I bet that would have traumatized me if she showed she could do that to me.

I wasn't paralyzed or anything. A few times LOL I could break the contention but it was hard, and I don't think she was honestly even trying very hard. Scary to think about these things when looking back at it all.

=====================

Anyway, how would you or Montalk actually feel if one of the ET actually made you get up right now, leave the room and walk out to your driveway then return control back to you? I don't mean like by mental tricks or deviation of your thoughts. I mean by literally hijacking your IFM (internal influence field manipulation) and making you act it out with your full conscious recall.

What is your actual reaction do you think?

lycaeus
08-19-2013, 01:18 PM
That is creepy!

I just randomly read a story from the old noble realms forum and it was a woman with 6 hours missing time. She was in her car and looked in the rearview to find dry blood spilt all over her face. Kind of similar to the wetness you mentioned. I've woken up a few times feeling like I was thrown into bed. Other times, I've jumped out of bed or at least bolted straight up as if some paralyzing control or hypnosis was just released that prevented me from screaming.

Interesting about them not being able to jump in and out of bodies so easily. I guess clones are more likely to be full of a programmed personality and I guess psychically influenced at certain times if need be for an added punch, in whatever scenario... I've heard of stories where they torture someone to leave their body so they can insert an alien intelligence to coexist with the original soul.

If an alien took control of my body? I guess I'd think I was possessed. And I'd probably think that I'm having a sort of out-of-body-experience but with my energy body still close to the physical. It would also remind me of paralysis but it would be much worse. Paralysis plus someone's driving your car! Then the fear would set in. What if they make my body do something bad and I have to suffer the consequences. It might make you nuts.

Well this exact scenario has happened many times to the author of the orion mind project. She says that remote mkultra/cia handlers and alien beings take control of her body while she's conscious of it. She talks about General Patton practicing his control by making her make fists, lift her arm. She even gets thrown around and has even considered video-taping it to show people. But the cool thing about her writings is that she has an amazing attitude and sense of humor about her strange encounters and moment-by-moment experiences.

These things are scary to think about. Talks like these make me think of the protection we have from unseen forces. And how it's better to be aware of things than for the universe to kick you in the rear to wake you up and prod you back into learning and making an effort.

Though I think these hidden manipulators or 'puppet-masters' want to make it seem like there is nothing going on behind the scenes, like we are in full control. It's good that you're pointing out the tricks that are played on people, tactfully designed to be effective and unbelievable.


Typically, the ability to store memory is tuned way out. So for those people under going that, moments of their lives are not being recorded into their conscious recollection.
I guess this is different from triggering a person into an alter. This would be psychic manipulation by alien beings. Alters and mind-controlled 'triggering' would be a tactic more likely used by beings without alien psychic powers, as in human black op's abductors. (or maybe they just pull out that pen like in the MIB movie)

Fore
08-19-2013, 02:27 PM
That is creepy!

I just randomly read a story from the old noble realms forum and it was a woman with 6 hours missing time. She was in her car and looked in the rearview to find dry blood spilt all over her face. Kind of similar to the wetness you mentioned.

The wetness is just a reference to a tv series I once saw. Nothing needs to be wet for it to happen.

By the way, were her eyes open as she became aware of the blood or did she wake up?


Interesting about them not being able to jump in and out of bodies so easily. I think you are thinking more of spiritual possession. The psychic type of control doesn't require an ET to leave their body or anything like that.

It is an apples and oranges type of thing.


I guess clones are more likely to be full of a programmed personality and I guess psychically influenced at certain times if need be for an added punch, in whatever scenario... I've heard of stories where they torture someone to leave their body so they can insert an alien intelligence to coexist with the original soul. I have heard from the advisor a long time ago that extreme pain and duress can make someone disconnect from their body. But you'd think they could flip those switches without the need to inflict pain....Strange.


Well this exact scenario has happened many times to the author of the orion mind project. She says that remote mkultra/cia handlers and alien beings take control of her body while she's conscious of it. She talks about General Patton practicing his control by making her make fists, lift her arm. This part I found interesting. I recall I saw the name patton in a previous conversation somewhere on this forum.

I'd have to ask the obvious, why would such an entity controlling her let someone like her positively identify them? Why would a general even bother to conduct such a scenario? Sounds like a mental illusion. If it truly is controlling her internal field, then adding imagery and content into her mind would be pretty trivial.

In case you haven't yet realized it, the whole mind of a person and the content they are experiencing can be altered at that point. The only difference between making someone move and putting thoughts into their head is the scale and scope of the manipulation.

Many ET like to induce emotions into the people they abduct, or subdue all emotions to make them artificially calm. Whatever floats their boat.


She even gets thrown around and has even considered video-taping it to show people. But the cool thing about her writings is that she has an amazing attitude and sense of humor about her strange encounters and moment-by-moment experiences. Thrown around by what means?


These things are scary to think about. Talks like these make me think of the protection we have from unseen forces. And how it's better to be aware of things than for the universe to kick you in the rear to wake you up and prod you back into learning and making an effort. Don't worry about it otherwise you'll become paranoid. Just relax.


Though I think these hidden manipulators or 'puppet-masters' want to make it seem like there is nothing going on behind the scenes, like we are in full control. It's good that you're pointing out the tricks that are played on people, tactfully designed to be effective and unbelievable. Sure, but you have to check your own mind and make sure you "keep it in check" as you read on.



I guess this is different from triggering a person into an alter. This would be psychic manipulation by alien beings. Alters and mind-controlled 'triggering' would be a tactic more likely used by beings without alien psychic powers, as in human black op's abductors. (or maybe they just pull out that pen like in the MIB movie)I'd like to hear montalks view on this point.

montalk
08-19-2013, 09:18 PM
Anyway, how would you or Montalk actually feel if one of the ET actually made you get up right now, leave the room and walk out to your driveway then return control back to you? I don't mean like by mental tricks or deviation of your thoughts. I mean by literally hijacking your IFM (internal influence field manipulation) and making you act it out with your full conscious recall.

What is your actual reaction do you think?

If it were just a demonstration, I would be unsettled but try to adopt a "Well that was crazy, hope it doesn't happen again" attitude and try to go on with my life. But, worst case scenarios would be the following:

If it took control of just my arm, then while it's happening, I would feel a great dissociation from my arm and hand, like it's someone else's arm attached to my body. I would no longer feel whole, and personal boundaries would be totally violated. Then if I didn't keep that in check, it could descend into paranoia that the arm has a mind of its own that could wake up at any moment and attack me. Maybe I'm sleeping and it could smother or choke me. Would I ever let it hold a knife? Would I feel comfortable putting my hands behind my head as I slept? It would start feeling like a parasite or python permanently attached to me, something I could never get away from. And then if I went totally nuts, I'd try to cut it off as an ego's last attempt to secure its boundaries and maintain wholeness. (just a "what if" line of thinking, trying to get into the mindset of a person who enters a downward spiral due to that).

If it took control of my whole body except for my head, a similar thing could happen except I would feel prisoner in my own body. I might even become despondent enough, that I start thinking "what's the point of trying to operate my own body if it's not even my own." I might lose the security and willpower needed to move it myself with ease and confidence. It would start feeling claustrophobic like being trapped in a tight pipe for days. It would be worse than being a quadriplegic because at least with the latter you know you're staying safely in place. But if you could be walked over a bridge and thrown off at any moment, or start attacking other people including the ones you love, or made to drink bleach or whatever ... that insecurity would always be there and it could build a neuroticism that I think would create auto-immune disorders from all the hate and fear thrown at your own body, and then one might commit suicide as a final demonstration of what little control and volition is left.

montalk
08-19-2013, 09:37 PM
I'd like to hear montalks view on this point.

Well, severe trauma can fracture the mind into various shards, hence Multiple Personality Disorder. In the most severe cases, only one shard/personality at a time is active in a person, and it has its own memory stream. When another personality takes its place, the previous memory stream is likewise temporarily replaced. Thus if you only have two shards (main original one, and the split off portion) then you have a dual compartmentalized consciousness. What each one does, the other doesn't remember. Or it could be hierarchical, where one is conscious of the other but not vice versa. I'm pretty sure black ops groups use this for their employees/slaves/abductees.

So then, one of those personalities while active can be trained, conditioned, programmed, etc. to hold a certain point of view, a certain purpose or mission, a certain set of goals. It may only be a small shard, which like an "embedded system chip" carries only a small amount of memory loaded with a specific set of instructions. It could be hypnotically programmed to always be in a hypnotized suggestible state as a conditioned reflex.

In this way, it could take just a phone call with a series of beeps to trigger the main personality to switch into the alter, and the alter then carries out its pre-programmed instructions without resistance by the main personality.

But it seems to rely on pavlovian conditioning to induce effects similar to what aliens might do in real time. What I mean is, instead of an alien standing there splicing into your field to control your body, this other method might split off a fragment of your mind and let that do the controlling in a previously conditioned way. I'm confident this could be explained at the lower/higher mind, interconnect, influence level but I don't know the ins-outs enough to make a guess. I also believe that pain-induced trauma may be an outdated method, similar to how a lizard can be frightened into dropping its tail ... or one could just use a knife, meaning there may be psychic and technological means of surgically altering the nonphysical components of the body.

Fore
08-20-2013, 09:37 AM
If it were just a demonstration, I would be unsettled but try to adopt a "Well that was crazy, hope it doesn't happen again" attitude and try to go on with my life. But, worst case scenarios would be the following:

If it took control of just my arm, then while it's happening, I would feel a great dissociation from my arm and hand, like it's someone else's arm attached to my body. I would no longer feel whole, and personal boundaries would be totally violated. Then if I didn't keep that in check, it could descend into paranoia that the arm has a mind of its own that could wake up at any moment and attack me. Maybe I'm sleeping and it could smother or choke me. Would I ever let it hold a knife? Would I feel comfortable putting my hands behind my head as I slept? It would start feeling like a parasite or python permanently attached to me, something I could never get away from. And then if I went totally nuts, I'd try to cut it off as an ego's last attempt to secure its boundaries and maintain wholeness. (just a "what if" line of thinking, trying to get into the mindset of a person who enters a downward spiral due to that).

If it took control of my whole body except for my head, a similar thing could happen except I would feel prisoner in my own body. I might even become despondent enough, that I start thinking "what's the point of trying to operate my own body if it's not even my own." I might lose the security and willpower needed to move it myself with ease and confidence. It would start feeling claustrophobic like being trapped in a tight pipe for days. It would be worse than being a quadriplegic because at least with the latter you know you're staying safely in place. But if you could be walked over a bridge and thrown off at any moment, or start attacking other people including the ones you love, or made to drink bleach or whatever ... that insecurity would always be there and it could build a neuroticism that I think would create auto-immune disorders from all the hate and fear thrown at your own body, and then one might commit suicide as a final demonstration of what little control and volition is left.What of the same scenario, only the manipulation occurs at the mental level?

What would you experience if an ET were to listen to my instructions (as if I were one of the ET supervisors) and could manipulate your emotions or your mind outside of your direct control. Is there a trauma in that?

Does the fact of knowing that it is happening create trauma vs not knowing? (well in your personal case at least)

If you are aware that someone has that role over the event, how does that person feel about it?

Like for example, if it is a supervisor neither you or I could directly meet face to face which directs that activity. Is the sentiment directed at the somebody directly enacting it, or is it directed at the person giving the orders (supervisor)? (I know, for us human beings this is a dead obvious answer, but still I want to ask it to see what you come up with.)

What if "the control" is directed by someone you know like your wife/GF rather than someone you can't see? How does that change things?

Like if you marry a hybrid, and such a hybrid were to openly or secretly "manage" that partner and it is found out. Are the same reactions noted vs someone who has never been met (like an actual ET supervisor?

==================

Separately,
What if it were only done with the targets full pre-awareness that the event is about to take place. Would that affect the outcome?

For example, that such a being (under direction from a supervisor) could insert content in a very obvious way. Or futz with some of your mental capacity to remember certain events? If done _openly_, does this affect people to the same degree as someone who doesn't know?

Does the "obviousness" of such an event make it more impacting on the psychology/health of person? (In your opinion)

===================

As a side question, would someone with a skeptical position on the phenomenology behind ET phenomena find it more "impacting" to conduct such a scenario on them, or is it the same reaction? (The ET and I were at odds years ago on this regarding beliefs)

(I know, I am asking questions out of left field, but mostly because I am curious to compare your answers with those they gave and see what matches vs what differs. Your opinion (or any other members opinion) on these matters are welcome.)

Fore
08-20-2013, 02:49 PM
So, a couple of interesting things happened last night directly after writing that post. "Too hilarious". (thats the spin I will use.)

First, someone left a stolen [SUV] vehicle on the left side of my house. Four patrol cars and one woman in normal clothes were apparently reclaiming the stolen vehicle.

Minutes later....

Second, Someone decided to defecate right next to my front door. Yes, a human being. Not a dog or a cat or some other animal. How do I know? Because they were confronted and ran away with their pants barely hanging on. Crazy people?

This was done as they were wrapping up the investigation of the stolen vehicle on the left side of my house.

----------------------

So I have to ask, why would someone choose thee house that is literally surrounded by patrol cars? Isn't that a bit weird?

Anyway, noteworthy event(s).

Edit: Oh, the left side of my head been hurting ever since I started writing that point. A pain familiar to me during activations. (except I didn't do any)

montalk
08-21-2013, 05:15 AM
Does the fact of knowing that it is happening create trauma vs not knowing? (well in your personal case at least)

I've had heavy pressuring and influencing in the past, but is that the same as what you're asking about? In my case, once I became aware of it, I could grit my teeth and push really hard to override it. Mind block, artificial positive glee, artificial aggression, and artificial depression -- I've been able to override those when I really wanted to. In those cases, knowing was better than not knowing. But if I didn't know, then I would always go along with it and treat it as if had been my own failings that I was enduring.

But if you mean total control... well, then if I'm not aware of it, I wouldn't know the difference because I'd assume the thoughts are my own. So I don't see how that would be traumatizing.

But if I realized what was happening and couldn't stop it, then I would feel like I'm possessed, or being beamed by some mind control ray, or had accidentally eaten a bunch of hallucinogens. Then I would probably panic and think I was entering psychosis. I would know it's happening, but not who/what is responsible. And that uncertainty could produce anxiety and preoccupation with figuring it out and making sure it never happened again, which would have a destabilizing influence.


Like for example, if it is a supervisor neither you or I could directly meet face to face which directs that activity. Is the sentiment directed at the somebody directly enacting it, or is it directed at the person giving the orders (supervisor)? (I know, for us human beings this is a dead obvious answer, but still I want to ask it to see what you come up with.)

Personally I'd get angry at both of you, if I knew for sure there were two parties involved (one ordering, one enacting). If it were up to me, I'd first take out the enactor and then come for the supervisor. But slim chance of that ever happening. If the enactor were a sentient being, I would be more angry at him/her/it, than if it were some little grey drone just carrying out a directive.


What if "the control" is directed by someone you know like your wife/GF rather than someone you can't see? How does that change things?

Like if you marry a hybrid, and such a hybrid were to openly or secretly "manage" that partner and it is found out. Are the same reactions noted vs someone who has never been met (like an actual ET supervisor?

Well then there is betrayal involved, so there's additional cause for upset there. Then it gets personal. Assuming the control was for nefarious reasons of course. An unseen enemy doing it is too vague of a target, and is expected to engage in that kind of thing anyway, so there are no surprises there. But someone who pretends to be nice only to be a secret manipulator, that's an added dimension.


What if it were only done with the targets full pre-awareness that the event is about to take place. Would that affect the outcome?

Depends on what it's done for. If it's purely just a demonstration with no direct damage done, then I would find it unsettling like the first time being on a roller coaster or getting your blood drawn, and that's about it. You know what's about to happen, you dread it, then it happens, then you can get over it.

But if it's done for intimidation or manipulation or direct harm, like "we're going to make you put your hand on a hot burner now... ready, one two three" then that's different. I guess then that would add to the sense of doom and loss of control, like how psycho torturers may spell out everything they're about to do.


Does the "obviousness" of such an event make it more impacting on the psychology/health of person? (In your opinion)

Only in the sense of building up dreaded anticipation, and giving the victim a chance to try and fight it (but failing) so that he/she can't pass blame onto "Oh I didn't know it was happening, that's why you had control." So it would drive the point home deeper that the control was really powerful and inescapable.


As a side question, would someone with a skeptical position on the phenomenology behind ET phenomena find it more "impacting" to conduct such a scenario on them, or is it the same reaction? (The ET and I were at odds years ago on this regarding beliefs)

I think it would definitely be worse for them. Hysteria, crying, catatonic states, suicide, depression, or even breaking/conversion/zealotry. Too big of a leap for them to change their paradigm in the span of a few seconds. They're already weak to begin with, using their intellects as a defense mechanism to protect a fragile/petty ego, so if that defense is annihilated they should crash pretty hard.

Btw, although I get bothered and annoyed by things, I don't really get freaked out and deeply disturbed merely by the weirdness of things anymore. So my reactions may not be representative of how most people would react.

montalk
08-21-2013, 05:19 AM
So, a couple of interesting things happened last night directly after writing that post. "Too hilarious". (thats the spin I will use.)

Hmm, that same night we had an internet outage here, and I went to go check the cabling in the back of the building when I came upon several cops blocking my way. There were three cop cars parked nearby, and the cops were talking to this woman for reasons I don't know. First time living here that I've seen a police incident around this building. Funny coincidence. Luckily no one fertilizing the lawn though.

One time our late cat got possessed by something, had weird behavior and a crazy look in her eyes, and first she peed on my laptop bag, and then an hour later on my briefcase (they were on opposite sides of the apartment) and later tried to top it off with a grand finale under the computer desk. Next day she was fine. So I think some devious entity was controlling her that day.

lycaeus
08-21-2013, 06:06 AM
By the way, were her eyes open as she became aware of the blood or did she wake up?
Guess so, she was driving then glanced in the mirror to her horror.


I'd have to ask the obvious, why would such an entity controlling her let someone like her positively identify them? Why would a general even bother to conduct such a scenario? Sounds like a mental illusion. If it truly is controlling her internal field, then adding imagery and content into her mind would be pretty trivial.
She says she knows they use fake names and even hears the entities addressing each other (not her) in her own head. Some, she knows their other names, some not. She says there are reptilians and demonic beings around her all the time and writes extensively. Could be reptilians pretending to be milab guys. Though she says she rarely goes to the washroom though she eats a lot, but remembers going in underground bases during abductions which she apparently has a lot of. I think they want her to present information making reptilians and milab guys seem benign.


General Patton. The guys often mentioned General Patton throughout the years. But I never got to see him or meet him or talk to him and he never spoke to me. He was always a mystery to me. The other staff always act as if he is a VIP. Nowadays, General Patton is the one who spends the very most time with me with surveillance. They decided that I am ready for MKULTRA mind control and that is when General Patton took over. He is the one who performs the MKULTRA tackles. He can move his mind into my body and it becomes as if his body and my body are overlapping. If he then makes a fist with his own left hand, my left hand also makes a fist. General Patton then tackles me, he can push me around and he is very strong. General Patton often tells me, "Welcome to MKULTRA."

Sargent Wilkes. Sargent Wilkes and General Patton are the ones who spend the most time watching me nowadays now that I am "active" in the MKULTRA project. General Patton recently informed me that it is actually Sargent Wilkes who was supposed to do the "mind transfer", but Sargent Wilkes told me how he feels guilty about doing it so General Patton - the VIP - has to do it instead. But Sargent Wilkes seems to always be in the office with General Patton when Patton is working. Fake names obviously.

She also says a lot of her human handlers turned out to be reptilian.

lycaeus
08-21-2013, 06:59 AM
What of the same scenario, only the manipulation occurs at the mental level?

If I was unaware of a foreign entity controlling me, I'd blame my own thoughts and work on my self. At this point I'm aware of other beings influencing my mind and feelings as a possibility but if I had no idea about it my reaction would be a bit different. I'd identify with those thoughts and feelings thinking it was all me. But knowing me (somewhat) I'd observe my feelings and take time to contemplate. I'd look for patterns and ask myself why I'm doing something, what is the root cause of this thinking and where is it leading. Is it noble or ego-based? They could make you think you are someone who you are not.

If I was aware someone was controlling my mind to any degree I guess my reaction would be different depending on the circumstances and degree of control. If it was small-time influence I would go against it and question it. If it was full control and I could only view my thoughts as an observer w/full-awareness someone was controlling them I'd be pretty scared thinking I was possessed. I'd feel detached from my body and mind. If I could feel my own emotions I'd be pissed and demand they stop. I'd do everything I could to be free but what could you do if they're controlling your mind? It's hard to imagine.

I'd resent any entity I knew was influencing me and get them out of my life if I could. Being aware of possible psychic suggestion gives you an edge in making better decisions. But if they have full control and I knew it was them I'd be really angry and probably go crazy.

The entity could manipulate you into believing they are doing it for your own good. A person might believe that consciously because of fear within them. It would be easier to believe they're benevolent. I'm sure most people who start hearing voices in the head want to believe they're from nice people. Then they might be okay with possession of the mind and body at times, perhaps enamored with the power they might feel.

If someone I physically knew around me was controlling my mind to any degree I would again be very pissed off. I'd probably ask them a lot of 'why' questions. I might get caught up in maintaining the relationship so I could learn more about how they do it. It might skyrocket my fascination with the person and unfortunately attract me to them. But if they were messing with my head without telling me, even for supposed 'good' reasons, I'd walk away and end the relationship.

A skeptic of the paranormal would be far more traumatized and therefore more easily controllable out of fear of the unknown. They'd think they're nuts, check in at a mental hospital and swallow a lot of pills.

It's funny you guys had a similar experience. It was a full moon and that's when more craziness usually happens. It reminded me of this incident (http://supersoldiertalk.com/2013/07/14/james-doesnt-need-friends/).

montalk
08-26-2013, 09:45 AM
I did that "visualize the mitochondria" thing a couple times, and every time got the exact same reactions I did in the past when attempting the various activation routines described by Fore and Pontif.

Feels like a shifting of fluid pressure into various parts of my body (especially the hands) and within a couple seconds some minor pins and needles arising here and there (like ping... ping ping ..... ping).

I think the visualization isn't necessarily targeting my mitochondria specifically (or at least, the above isn't necessarily proof of that) but it could just as well be triggering whatever mechanism was behind my earlier activation attempts, such as nonphysical circuitry being stimulated.

montalk
08-26-2013, 10:07 AM
I have to say though, this past month has just been weird. I'm noticing in my life, families, and some friends an increase in paranormal activity, improbable negative and dangerous incidences, more troll attacks, and also death, medical, financial, and/or legal issues. Not sure exactly what's up, if it's solar or astrological or something else.

montalk
08-26-2013, 10:34 AM
Of possible connection with the 'etheric tide' idea:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oURVtGKW420

http://www.projectcamelot.org/paul_laviolette.html (transcript, mp3, etc.)


Dr Paul LaViolette is the measured counterpart to Patrick Geryl, whose interview we have released simultaneously. A brilliant and maverick astrophysicist, Paul is best known for his research into a new theory of matter he calls Subquantum Kinetics - based on systems theory, which he studied for his PhD thesis - and for his carefully argued hypothesis, first formulated in 1983, that our galactic center periodically emits devastating waves he termed superwaves.

Galactic superwaves are intense cosmic ray particle bombardments that originate from the center of our Galaxy, and that last for periods of up to a few thousand years. Paul explains that astronomical and geological evidence indicates that the last major superwave impacted our solar system around 12,000 to 16,000 years ago, and produced abrupt changes of the Earth's climate.

The land animal extinction episode which occurred during this interval was the worst in several million years, and Paul estimates that approximately one or two superwaves strong enough to trigger an ice age are presently on their way to us from their birthplace at the galactic core... 23,000 light years away. Paul states that there is a real chance that one such event could arrive within the next few decades. Importantly - because they travel at the speed of light - we would not see them coming.

Paul explains that less intense superwaves, which recur with considerable frequency, could also pose a threat. He cites evidence that the galactic center has erupted as many as ten times in the last 2,000 years, the most recent event occurring about 700 years ago. While these low intensity events could have passed unnoticed in earlier centuries, today they could be extremely hazardous. The EMP [electromagnetic pulse] accompanying such a superwave could knock out electrical power grids and communication networks on a global scale. Consequently, argues Paul, study of this phenomenon deserves a very high priority, and he founded The Starburst Foundation to do this.

Of some considerable interest is the testimony from our insider source Jake Simpson, who told us in October 2008 that there was a 'wave' coming - but that it would not arrive here for quite a few years: possibly around 2017-2020. When asked how he knew, his response was that highly advanced and classified superluminal [faster-then-light] craft had been out to "take a look", and had then returned to report back with the information. Jake told us that the effect could either be cataclysmic, or "just a puff of wind"... and that exactly what would happen, and when, was simply not known.

Of interest also is the anonymous testimony from a senior Electrical Engineer, whose wife contacted us in April 2009 to report an anticipated major breakdown of national power supplies a few years from now. These reports - and others (such as that from Dan Sherman) - all weave together to form an unsettling picture. While we have said separately that we do not agree with Patrick Geryl's conclusions, it does seem that the Earth, and the human race, may possibly be in for a bit of a rough ride... from a number of different causes.

Fore
08-26-2013, 05:58 PM
@ Montalk

Take a look at the following link:

http://projectcamelot.org/jake_simpson.html

Under the section:
AI surveillance and access to knowledge

Did you notice anything familiar in what happened to the both of them? I do not vouch for any of the contents of the mans claims. But...I do want you to notice that you are not unique in the experiences you have suffered to date. Or any of us have suffered. I do not think (but do not know) that it was an "AI".

Notice the topics discussed by the man. Any similarity? Notice the mentions of timeline manipulation and the final lines of the entire article?

I just want you to read through it and notice the fine details beyond what the man understands as his own reality.

Fore
08-27-2013, 07:51 PM
I did that "visualize the mitochondria" thing a couple times, and every time got the exact same reactions I did in the past when attempting the various activation routines described by Fore and Pontif.

Feels like a shifting of fluid pressure into various parts of my body (especially the hands) and within a couple seconds some minor pins and needles arising here and there (like ping... ping ping ..... ping).

I think the visualization isn't necessarily targeting my mitochondria specifically (or at least, the above isn't necessarily proof of that) but it could just as well be triggering whatever mechanism was behind my earlier activation attempts, such as nonphysical circuitry being stimulated.I have been largely silent for a couple of days/weeks because I did some research into paranormal topics and found something, which while very useful, lead to undesirable realizations and encounters.

I found out who did what and what occurred during the guardian incident of a few days ago. The (paranormal) entity responsible replayed the same scenario again and made it extremely obvious as to where I stand in this picture. I now more thoroughly understand the context of the situation and how it relates directly to the past. I even now know what many things stem from and why.

I am extremely hesitant to explain because I don't yet fully understand all the implications. Or perhaps because I do, I remain silent on the matter. The boldness of this [familiar] entity and the audacity to make itself apparent deeply bother me. I should probably say openly the entity responsible was 1 of the 5 demonic entities I had to put up with during my years of dealing with the paranormal as a young child. While the other 3 generally moved on after a decade, apparently this one has stayed close by.

For example, I now know conclusively what are the origins of the contamination present of my fields on my left side "are really about". What I don't know is why one person (the advisor) seemingly knew of the problem through her given advice (many years ago) but never notified me about it point blank. It creates more questions than answers.

I found that this thing has some kind of marker or presence that I seemingly am not "as aware" of.

---------------------------

I want to discuss this in private so you (and pontif) can glean all the info I have so far understood. You'll then understand why I have decided to stay quiet.

pontificator
08-29-2013, 01:19 PM
*pricks ears up* I'm waiting and listening.

Fore
08-29-2013, 10:26 PM
I have just encountered a second Demon moments ago. Whatever you do simply don't think about me for right now.

The background over here is spiking like crazy over here. If you encounter anything do not attempt to speak nor communicate with it at all.

montalk
09-01-2013, 06:59 AM
Haven't replied yet, to avoid creating further connections. Let me know when it's over.

Fore
09-01-2013, 01:38 PM
It stopped at around 4:30pm CST on the same day it was reported. Someone from the HOE intervened on my behalf and stopped the incident. But the entire situation is still ongoing...simply not as active. 2 more accidents occurred just steps outside my house on consecutive days. I took photos of one and the other two I didn't simply because I didn't have my tablet charged.

This foreign demonic entity wasn't as strong as the normal demons I have encountered before. In all honesty it was "mild" in comparison but present and very threatening. Multiple people were affected inside and outside (around) my house. I have learned the cause of the accidents seem to be related to the chaotic permeating nature and presence of the entity.

What Jesus said about Demons who are cast out going and finding someone worse than them, is apparently true. The familiar demon brought around some demon that was unknown to me (a stranger) and it was clearly more rotten mentally than the one I know. Though it was not very strong.

They are seemingly trying to establish demonic inhabitation. Every time they try to hijack and bond their psychic fields to mine the lights and electricity flicker and all sorts of real world side effects occur. So far the attempts have been limited to try to connect deeply enough and cause a heart attack.

Both entities seem to reiterate the same strange notions. The two of them stated separately that they won't let me 'escape' from their grasp/hands/confinement. For some reason they seem to think that they are losing their 'standing' in this ongoing situation.

----------------------------

Whatever is actually happening, it is very apparent they are trying to initiate a preemptive heart attack of some sort at most attempts. I am currently on some medication to deal with the physical side of the problem and looking to visit a doctor for medical checkups as soon as possible...and repelling the attempts (spiritually through the Higher Order Entities) as they come and are ongoing.

So if you want to talk, there is a high enough risk that they will notice you or anyone else on at least some portion of the day or between attempts. I can't really stop that from happening.

So talk with that risk in mind. I can't say I will be too wordy in my responses to keep the risks down.

montalk
09-06-2013, 07:30 AM
Did you notice anything familiar in what happened to the both of them? I do not vouch for any of the contents of the mans claims. But...I do want you to notice that you are not unique in the experiences you have suffered to date. Or any of us have suffered. I do not think (but do not know) that it was an "AI".

It does resemble what we've discussed, the mind block interference when a sensitive topic comes up. Too bad Bill doesn't remember anything at all about what was said, which could indicate what was doing the blocking. Though if it were some kind of AI, I wonder if that could explain why your group had to be so choosy in their timing, as if something from the shadow military side (like this AI mechanism) was conducting regular sweep patterns.


Notice the topics discussed by the man. Any similarity? Notice the mentions of timeline manipulation and the final lines of the entire article?

I just want you to read through it and notice the fine details beyond what the man understands as his own reality.

Thanks, was definitely interesting to read that from a broader context.

Alright, going to keep this short. I have some busy weeks coming up, so may not be around as much for a while.

lycaeus
09-10-2013, 05:26 AM
There is some controversy with Bill Ryan. There's a video that shows what some think of as him doing a masonic handshake. Clif High accused him of making up stories about him. James Casbolt (who I believe to an extent) says he's a big, mean, powerful lizard. I'm starting to think the truth movement is more controlled than I thought. It's our job to pick out the good stuff tho'.

epo333
09-10-2013, 12:21 PM
There is some controversy with Bill Ryan. There's a video that shows what some think of as him doing a masonic handshake. Clif High accused him of making up stories about him. James Casbolt (who I believe to an extent) says he's a big, mean, powerful lizard. I'm starting to think the truth movement is more controlled than I thought. It's our job to pick out the good stuff tho'.

Awe shucks, did you forget the video link...?

lycaeus
09-10-2013, 03:31 PM
Awe shucks, did you forget the video link...?
I figured people would just google it. I'm having trouble finding the good one. Thought iw would be easier, i don't remember it being that difficult. I'll look again later today. All I got was this one for now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGM2sAYBr24

Well, their logo might be a giveaway too. It's a single eye, could be Illuminati/alien related.

lycaeus
09-11-2013, 12:39 AM
That must be the only video. I thought there was a different one.

epo333
09-11-2013, 02:59 AM
There still might be another one out there. Over the years Bill R. was in many interviews and investigations, could be quite a task to search all of them (youtubes).

Doc
09-11-2013, 04:17 AM
This might be helpful. I have met and spoken to both Bill and Kerry more than a few times and shook hands with both. In the vid, Kerry seemed to shake hands as she always did, like a woman. I can't see Bill's handshake all that well but he does shake hands in a different sort of way with his fingers together and bent at the palm, pointing more angled down than most people. (This is from memory of course.) Bill's handshake reminded me of the way a politician shakes hands very quickly and precisely with a quick release so he doesn't get squeezed by the other person and have to soak his hands in ice at night after shaking hands a few hundred times in a day. If I have the details a bit wrong the overall experience is a little unusual--however, Bill is a gentleman; polite, cordial, very warm and apparently genuine. He may be very good a meeting and greeting but there is no sense at all that he is insincere or covering up some menacing interior self. If fact, if someone said the thought he was a reptilian of some sort I would be hard pressed to understand what it was he was experiencing that I didn't.

lycaeus
12-08-2013, 02:56 AM
Thanks Doc. I just noticed you posted that. There's so much disinformation and people pointing fingers at people in this field. It's hard to believe who is right sometimes. I always liked Bill and he doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. I think the wellaware1 site is mostly BS now. Most people have good intentions and do a lot of good work but there are beings behind the scenes influencing people. And then there are the people consciously spreading disinformation but I don't think that's Bill.

montalk
06-07-2014, 08:14 AM
New example: http://www.orionmindproject.com (http://bit.ly/1kSiI3d)

majicbar
06-08-2014, 04:42 AM
The two handshakes look the same, but they can not be masonic as there is only the handshake between masons, in this case Master Mason's. (The handshake shown would be similar to the Master (3rd degree) Mason's handshake, it would not be entirely correct as a mason's handshake as I was taught). There can be No "mason's" handshake with a woman, even one who is an Eastern Star, (the woman's masonic adjunct), one must be a risen candidate to share that handshake and only males are candidates.

Powessy
12-21-2014, 02:16 AM
I have just encountered a second Demon moments ago. Whatever you do simply don't think about me for right now.

The background over here is spiking like crazy over here. If you encounter anything do not attempt to speak nor communicate with it at all.

Hello Fore

I am new to this forum. I have a particular interest in what you are talking about here. I am in 24/7 communication with these entities and my connection to them is complicated. The entities that you are referring to are called sparteil ( lie traps). The sparteil were once angels from many worlds brought here against their will, the angel has the ability to hold millions of souls to allow the soul to find itself again after death. The sparteil are trapped during their physical life on their planet in which they can also live many times. The sparteil can find your higher mind and can pull your thoughts down from happening this is the Bill Ryan problem.

Do you speak to them, see them or feel them anymore.

Powessy

Fore
12-21-2014, 04:48 AM
What happened back then was the use of prayer against spiritually malevolent entities. I was practicing prayer in different ways and studying how people perform prayer professional as opposed to a simple prayer.

Mostly experimenting to see why in some cases there is an obvious intervention and other times as if nothing significant occurred.
I wanted to understand what the different reactions meant. Was it a procedural issue or a content issue (etc).

What I did is I looked over how a professional prayer looks like (by a priest or other practiced content) vs something I did do back then.


======================
It appears that the content in a prayer is important. At the time you cited in your post, I noticed that professionals "add clauses" to their prayers. The "professionals" take into account "a certain spiritual reality" surrounding them when they conduct their prayer.

So I analyzed my own prayer and notice that while it was effective in its simplicity, it was lacking certain components that a priest would add in.

----------------------------

For example,
I would be very straight forward and humbly ask in a prayer that a spiritual entity be removed from the premises of my home. But I wouldn't add any clauses of of protection for myself or others while performing that prayer.

So what happened? The expected (which I didn't realize back then) the entities upon noticing I was doing a prayer would immediately attack me or anyone (or everyone) to keep the prayer from continuing.

The result is that I would usually stop the prayer and I'd be bed ridden for a few hours after trying. Mostly because the entity would do everything in it's power to make you feel as ill as possible to stop you from conducting the prayer.

By accident, or probably intention, I don't recall anymore. I prayed a professional prayer with a list of logical clauses that a professional would add.

--------------------------

First, for personal protection from the thing you are casting out, then for God's attention to your plight, then etc...

What occurred in the post you cited is that my field started reacting as if something was attached to it. A pretty violent reaction as if two fields were mixed together. When I then heard something spiritual direct it's intense focus towards me uttering in my mind to stop. I continued and was shocked more than anything. I dont recall the exact episode with detail but I wrote it down somewhere.

I realized that the reason my field on the left side is so abnormal is because my "psychic" field is contaminated. It had a stain from one of these demonic presences. The entity itself seemed to have long ago learned how to hide it's presence from my sensitive detection. In other words, as if it were invisible to my ESP sensitivity.

Upon praying like a professional, one of the clauses I think I used was to clean out my body of any malevolent residual energy. Or something like that. Another clause (I am remembering some more now) was that I renounce any agreements between myself and any entity.

The seemed to cause this formerly unnoticed presence and its connection to me and my field to have a very violent reaction. When the prayer was done, the entity was in such a state of distress from the prayer that it started to become noticeable. The comments it directed towards me were extremely threatening and menacing.

I realized it was one of the 5 I grew up around. More than anything I was shocked at this intense reaction and the fact that the entity had stained my field to such an extent. I continued repeating the prayer and it kept struggling and eventually it was forced to detach it's spiritual/influence connection.

Before it did, it said something rather alarming. With a varied array of emotions. That I should stop praying and something about whether it thought I could get rid of it.

-------------------

When it left, dragged away by some UT (Higher Order Entity/Angel) I thought there was a shocking revelation about what I am living through. I had no idea it was there...for God knows how long. That then brought me to the conclusion that it was possible that there were more instances of this.

More than anything, it was about realizing there was a blindspot frequency that I normally couldn't sense with my ESP. And these entities were exploiting that to both be present and not tip me off to their presence.

The great thing about the entire set of realization was the need for clauses. Through them I was able to structure prayer like a form of spiritual legalese. Eventually I also noticed that the holy spirit when it came (instead of an Angel) it would only target what you had "scoped in mind" during the prayer.

In other words, if you kept in mind a certain entity, then it would generally only affect that entity. If you scoped the prayer to match any entity, it would decide on it's own what to do. If you wanted to heal someone through it's natural ability, you had to point out what exactly you wanted. Then everything would run smoothly.

--------------------

It was like directing a strike on the spiritual side of the equation. You had to call in for the proverbial air strike and then point to the target while praying. You also had to protect yourself so that when the Holy Spirit or an Angel showed up, that would be assured.

Some professional prayers also ask for divine protection before entering a home or repeatedly ask for spiritual protection all throughout their ongoing life. So they are afforded that. For someone who is relatively ignorant of that fact, I was pretty unprotected.

I then learned how to protect a home. (asking for a blessing of a home)

Etc.

-----------------------

Fore
12-21-2014, 05:01 AM
What happened shortly after the reaction of the demonic presence in the above post was, I think the next day or the day after, I woke up with both entities hovering over me at roof level. One of the two was the one I threw out. One of the spiritually malevolent entities (that I did not know) began doing the reach-in into my chest and was trying to cause some kind of physical heart attack.

It was then (much to my surprise) when an UT/Angel interrupted the situation and called that entity to "come up". (as in, come here) The UT also said to the malevolent stranger that it did not have any "rights" to be here. The malevolent entity refused to comply and the UT came down and took ahold of it.

The two struggled for a bit and eventually the UT left and took the two malevolents with it.

-------------------------

As bizarre as this all sounds. If not sounding downright crazy, that is what happened. And for sounding crazy I did not want to mention it on the forum.

It all afforded me a ton of insights into the spiritual management and why people have done prayer for thousands of years. As well as reviewing the bible and realizing that what I had seen is the same as had been seen by witnesses thousands of years earlier. (in other words, I wasn't the only one to notice it)

I also learned the value of prayer and why you should use it when you are in a pinch. (And even when you aren't in a pinch.)

I ultimately learned that specificity and following a procedure in prayer is an insight followed by professional exorcists and is often worth it's weight in spiritual gold.

-------------------------

Since that time I have applied these insights into keeping my house free from these buggers. I don't have to worry about spiritual intruders anymore.

If they come, through the grace of God, will toss them out.

WildMage
12-21-2014, 05:12 AM
In a word "faith", and the human mind becomes capable of unimaginable feats.

While some of this may seem to have no rhyme or reason, not all of it is antagonistic, nor is it all being done for selfish purposes. While I am no fan of any program which would put ET at the head of any form of acclimation or rehabilitation types programs in a post disclosure world; I do feel there is a time and place for some form of open communication and possible collaboration with ETs.

When it comes to Higher Order Entities, I do know they watch and in some instances intervene at a tribunal type level.

Demon type entities are usually sought out, sorry but this is the truth of the matter. Whether this is done consciously, or subconsciously, may be up for debate, but a person's thoughts will affect their environment and drag them into whatever it is they are chasing after. Regardless of whether the thought process is to banish them, or to shake their hand, or even to study them for an academic understanding of their methodologies, this all leads down the same road.

A hijacked visual field at least for me was like an overlay, where reality was still present, but a simultaneous parallel space was being experienced. It is like being in two places at the same time. Mentally the two locations can be perceived as hundreds of miles apart, yet remain local to a single physical reality. As far as it not having an impact on reality or the training being useless for all intents and purposes, the easy way out is to simply agree. However, it does have a purpose, and it not only can but does affect the physical reality. A mind at war can bring down a tremendous amount of chaos into systems it understands and/or has access to. The opposite is also true, a mind at peace with itself can create and protect what it feels is important to its own environment. Many however do not have control either way, nor do they understand their own beliefs and faith have the capacity to shape the environment in which they reside.

At the end of the day it is a matter of choice, and our own active expression of these.

*WM*

Powessy
12-21-2014, 05:46 AM
What happened shortly after the reaction of the demonic presence in the above post was, I think the next day or the day after, I woke up with both entities hovering over me at roof level. One of the two was the one I threw out. One of the spiritually malevolent entities (that I did not know) began doing the reach-in into my chest and was trying to cause some kind of physical heart attack.

It was then (much to my surprise) when an UT/Angel interrupted the situation and called that entity to "come up". (as in, come here) The UT also said to the malevolent stranger that it did not have any "rights" to be here. The malevolent entity refused to comply and the UT came down and took ahold of it.

The two struggled for a bit and eventually the UT left and took the two malevolents with it.

-------------------------

As bizarre as this all sounds. If not sounding downright crazy, that is what happened. And for sounding crazy I did not want to mention it on the forum.

It all afforded me a ton of insights into the spiritual management and why people have done prayer for thousands of years. As well as reviewing the bible and realizing that what I had seen is the same as had been seen by witnesses thousands of years earlier. (in other words, I wasn't the only one to notice it)

I also learned the value of prayer and why you should use it when you are in a pinch. (And even when you aren't in a pinch.)

I ultimately learned that specificity and following a procedure in prayer is an insight followed by professional exorcists and is often worth it's weight in spiritual gold.

-------------------------

Since that time I have applied these insights into keeping my house free from these buggers. I don't have to worry about spiritual intruders anymore.

If they come, through the grace of God, will toss them out.

Hello Fore

There is a way to tell if this entity is realy gone. The sparteil, angel has the ability of mind and can create things from your thoughts, he/she is responsible for astral projections, this is their ability to move amongst dreamers and find others. The sparteil can thought form. Close your eyes and imagine a finger drawing a circle on your crown, try this several times and see if you can feel this. If you feel this then the sparteil is still inside yourself. The images of things you see are all created by them along with touch and emotions as they find your higher mind. As to the prayers these do not bother them, it is your change in emotions and thoughts that create variances in them trying to become you.

I play a game inside my mind with them, I place two poles inside my mind and start to twirl one of them if this pole changes other then what I am telling it to do then it is them, if the other pole moves then it is them.




Powessy

Powessy
12-21-2014, 06:13 AM
While some of this may seem to have no rhyme or reason, not all of it is antagonistic, nor is it all being done for selfish purposes. While I am no fan of any program which would put ET at the head of any form of acclimation or rehabilitation types programs in a post disclosure world; I do feel there is a time and place for some form of open communication and possible collaboration with ETs.

When it comes to Higher Order Entities, I do know they watch and in some instances intervene at a tribunal type level.

Demon type entities are usually sought out, sorry but this is the truth of the matter. Whether this is done consciously, or subconsciously, may be up for debate, but a person's thoughts will affect their environment and drag them into whatever it is they are chasing after. Regardless of whether the thought process is to banish them, or to shake their hand, or even to study them for an academic understanding of their methodologies, this all leads down the same road.

A hijacked visual field at least for me was like an overlay, where reality was still present, but a simultaneous parallel space was being experienced. It is like being in two places at the same time. Mentally the two locations can be perceived as hundreds of miles apart, yet remain local to a single physical reality. As far as it not having an impact on reality or the training being useless for all intents and purposes, the easy way out is to simply agree. However, it does have a purpose, and it not only can but does affect the physical reality. A mind at war can bring down a tremendous amount of chaos into systems it understands and/or has access to. The opposite is also true, a mind at peace with itself can create and protect what it feels is important to its own environment. Many however do not have control either way, nor do they understand their own beliefs and faith have the capacity to shape the environment in which they reside.

At the end of the day it is a matter of choice, and our own active expression of these.

*WM*

Hello WildMage

I agree with your incite on higher order entities they do watch and try not to intervene.

The human mind is capable of manifesting many forms and shapes evil or ordinary. Demon entities are not this on purpose but something that was done by the few who wished to gain powers beyond our understanding of the worlds we live in. We only understand this side of things and not the values of the things that others can obtain in the after life. My quest is for truth and this is my faith as I continue to dig more and more to find the source of these entities.

Powessy

WildMage
12-21-2014, 08:03 AM
Hello WildMage

I agree with your incite on higher order entities they do watch and try not to intervene.

The human mind is capable of manifesting many forms and shapes evil or ordinary. Demon entities are not this on purpose but something that was done by the few who wished to gain powers beyond our understanding of the worlds we live in. We only understand this side of things and not the values of the things that others can obtain in the after life. My quest is for truth and this is my faith as I continue to dig more and more to find the source of these entities.

Powessy

Walking onto a battlefield, is quite easy to do, and in some cases we might even say it appears to be an unfortunate accident. Walking off the battlefield is a bit harder to do.

A psychic war of sorts has raged on for eons, they train the young (recruited between the ages of 5 & 8, some are dropped if they do not fit specific criteria) and use them in a realm which can only be experienced thru the mind. Manifesting forms and shapes is an art form of sort taught between the ages of 8 & 12 years in a controlled environment. Again some may be dropped during this process, but those who remain from the age of 13 & 22 are at some level a part of this unseen war. By the time they hit 23 they get wound down and put in what I would term a sleeper mode until they hit their early 40s and then re-awoken. I believe (speculation) the pattern has to do with certain hormone production, during puberty, and then during a change of life cycle. The keep/drop decision is most likely based on the strength of faith an individual has in their own ability of accomplishing the impossible. For example: a scenario of drowning prompts the individual to learn or find a method wherein their mind allows them to breathe underwater. In other words they have a personal faith in their own capacity to overcome challenges and an ability to create and execute solutions under stress. Some simply stop believing in magic ;)

Their intent to create or destroy is based upon a purpose, which resides within a cyclical flow. Some or perhaps many have learned the mechanics in controlling this flow, it is a life force, which in certain hands is used to engineer specific outcomes.

*WM*

WildMage
12-21-2014, 08:42 AM
I will add the following, as it may be of some importance to you.

A while back, I had found myself inside a well with blue stones (ethereal) just floating there, with an instruction of collecting these. What is of interest here is the opposite of blue is Gold, and when gold is added to glass it turns red. I do recall thinking these were the stones of chaos when I reached out for them. In the wrong hands this would be true indeed. When I reach out to see the filaments of life or the rivers of life unfolding on the edges what can be perceived, it is represented as blue = life, or the base force from which life comes from. Yellow being a divine fire of sorts which sits between the red and the blue. Red more or less being the dragon's blood, or our own physical reality, our past pulling away from us, while the blue remains our potential future coming at us. Making the yellow a representation of our now.

I mentioned this elsewhere and was told to look into the term blue apples, which turned out to be an interesting read. As to the reasons why, or their meaning within this context, or if even related in some way I do not know.

*WM*

WildMage
12-21-2014, 08:42 AM
... double post ...

Fore
12-21-2014, 09:15 AM
In a word "faith", and the human mind becomes capable of unimaginable feats. I think it would be wrong to put it that way. Faith yes, that leads to a declared relationship with God.

But my mind is not the thing that makes any Higher Order Entity move or act upon something. I cannot make the Holy Spirit do anything.

I only call for help through prayer and noticed that asking for a wide scope of things seems to help vs being extremely simple minded in a request.
I also cannot say that being specific or elaborate in a prayer is somehow confining the process of an intervention. In the end, sometimes you pray and if those higher up are against it, nothing happens.

So it is all an enigmatic relationship where you ask, and most things are given. Not necessarily because you are even in any way special.

I can ask for a million dollars and I am sure nothing will occur or come out of that. Though if God says it is in his plans, literally things are provided to make it a reality.

Ancient tales seen from the perspective of today in a strictly religious context were also situations with pragmatic circumstances in the moment they were occurring. Even the malevolent types know they don't stand a chance if someone calls out for help. They are knee deep in a reality they know all too well. Their circumstances are rather limiting.

Malevolent types (of the spiritual kind) lie, because a lie is cheap and economical. It is cheaper to convince someone that Angels are devils than it is to win in a fight against one. God makes it incredibly easy and "cheap" to call out for help. The malevolent types know they are on the losing end of such a situation. Fighting and resisting when someone prays for help is just an act of sheer desperation against a reality they cannot hope to overcome.

Most of the malevolent types know if they are taken, they will be taken to a place that is a living nightmare. A place that is far worse than anything they can ever do to their victims. They are so cursed by God (and only rather recently do I realize this) that even having them around is like having a perpetual curse on your life.

Total rejection, total renouncement of having them in your presence, and calling out to God to have them taken away to their deathly prison is the only place where they belong. I have accepted that. I have also added clauses to prayers to take them to the abyss whenever one of these types shows up. I don't want them to affect any living thing or person or child in this world. It is also the only way to make it hard for them to come back.



When it comes to Higher Order Entities, I do know they watch and in some instances intervene at a tribunal type level. Higher order entities are just the fingers of the hand and the arm and the body that sends them out to do things.

Even when you get the chance to actively talk to one, you get the deep notion that they rarely do anything significant without checking into it.

For example, I know if I asked one to go out and take any spiritual presences entities found with x, y and z members. They would immediately confirm that they do not "just do" things on their own. Unlike any society we come from (nor even the ET's for that matter) the UT standing in front of you is connected to the top. They don't just act alone or out of step (most of the time) without the chain of superior UT all the way to the top.

When you are talking with one of them in front of you, you are basically talking to everyone along the chain through to the top, indirectly.

If the top says "no", it is "no" from the top to the bottom.

WildMage
12-21-2014, 09:50 AM
I think it would be wrong to put it that way. Faith yes, that leads to a declared relationship with God.

But my mind is not the thing that makes any Higher Order Entity move or act upon something. I cannot make the Holy Spirit do anything.

I only call for help through prayer and noticed that asking for a wide scope of things seems to help vs being extremely simple minded in a request.
I also cannot say that being specific or elaborate in a prayer is somehow confining the process of an intervention. In the end, sometimes you pray and if those higher up are against it, nothing happens.

So it is all an enigmatic relationship where you ask, and most things are given. Not necessarily because you are even in any way special.

I can ask for a million dollars and I am sure nothing will occur or come out of that. Though if God says it is in his plans, literally things are provided to make it a reality.

Ancient tales seen from the perspective of today in a strictly religious context were also situations with pragmatic circumstances in the moment they were occurring. Even the malevolent types know they don't stand a chance if someone calls out for help. They are knee deep in a reality they know all too well. Their circumstances are rather limiting.

Malevolent types (of the spiritual kind) lie, because a lie is cheap and economical. It is cheaper to convince someone that Angels are devils than it is to win in a fight against one. God makes it incredibly easy and "cheap" to call out for help. The malevolent types know they are on the losing end of such a situation. Fighting and resisting when someone prays for help is just an act of sheer desperation against a reality they cannot hope to overcome.

Most of the malevolent types know if they are taken, they will be taken to a place that is a living nightmare. A place that is far worse than anything they can ever do to their victims. They are so cursed by God (and only rather recently do I realize this) that even having them around is like having a perpetual curse on your life.

Total rejection, total renouncement of having them in your presence, and calling out to God to have them taken away to their deathly prison is the only place where they belong. I have accepted that. I have also added clauses to prayers to take them to the abyss whenever one of these types shows up. I don't want them to affect any living thing or person or child in this world. It is also the only way to make it hard for them to come back.


Higher order entities are just the fingers of the hand and the arm and the body that sends them out to do things.

Even when you get the chance to actively talk to one, you get the deep notion that they rarely do anything significant without checking into it.

For example, I know if I asked one to go out and take any spiritual presences entities found with x, y and z members. They would immediately confirm that they do not "just do" things on their own. Unlike any society we come from (nor even the ET's for that matter) the UT standing in front of you is connected to the top. They don't just act alone or out of step (most of the time) without the chain of superior UT all the way to the top.

When you are talking with one of them in front of you, you are basically talking to everyone along the chain through to the top, indirectly.

If the top says "no", it is "no" from the top to the bottom.

You must first have Faith in yourself and in your own actions as being true in purpose and intent before reaching out as you do. A doubt in self yields nothing, but fear and a separation from GOD.

As to higher order entities they are a bit more autonomous in their investigation and conclusions as to a need for actions being taken I agree it is a mutual decision.

Powessy
12-21-2014, 04:17 PM
I will add the following, as it may be of some importance to you.

A while back, I had found myself inside a well with blue stones (ethereal) just floating there, with an instruction of collecting these. What is of interest here is the opposite of blue is Gold, and when gold is added to glass it turns red. I do recall thinking these were the stones of chaos when I reached out for them. In the wrong hands this would be true indeed. When I reach out to see the filaments of life or the rivers of life unfolding on the edges what can be perceived, it is represented as blue = life, or the base force from which life comes from. Yellow being a divine fire of sorts which sits between the red and the blue. Red more or less being the dragon's blood, or our own physical reality, our past pulling away from us, while the blue remains our potential future coming at us. Making the yellow a representation of our now.

I mentioned this elsewhere and was told to look into the term blue apples, which turned out to be an interesting read. As to the reasons why, or their meaning within this context, or if even related in some way I do not know.

*WM*

Hello WildMage

In my minds Eye at the place with the bridge I see three spheres one blue, one red, and one yellow. As I would stare into this place And see Powessy I could see the veins pulsating through his body blue and yellow. My eyes would always focus on him and the bridge never anything beyond the bridge. As I started to wonder the reason for the veins and there color these orbs showed up absolutely huge just floating in the back ground. The fact that these colors can, if mixed, represent every color known to man early art class memories I don't know they are just there. Emotions can also be labeled to colors, but what if the colors represent the key ingredients poured into each soul. A dash of good(blue) a dash of bad(red) and just a little power to animate it(yellow). These primary colors shown below also coordinate with the chakra system. Have you read up on the term loosh?

Pic1294


I am unsure of this psychic war of those on this side of things or on the other for that matter. The war is real though, and primarily instituted from the side you do not see clearly. I feel them enter into me and can find their words, I have had many thousands of obes and have seen them and how they are put together. I understand what is happening but I do not know how to explain it to others, they do not know what to look for. I have them inside me all the time and we are in constant communication I can release my self and allow them to move forward inside me this gives them temporary control, I can feel their thoughts and see the world through them for this moment.

Powessy

WildMage
12-21-2014, 05:33 PM
Hello WildMage

In my minds Eye at the place with the bridge I see three spheres one blue, one red, and one yellow. As I would stare into this place And see Powessy I could see the veins pulsating through his body blue and yellow. My eyes would always focus on him and the bridge never anything beyond the bridge. As I started to wonder the reason for the veins and there color these orbs showed up absolutely huge just floating in the back ground. The fact that these colors can, if mixed, represent every color known to man early art class memories I don't know they are just there. Emotions can also be labeled to colors, but what if the colors represent the key ingredients poured into each soul. A dash of good(blue) a dash of bad(red) and just a little power to animate it(yellow). These primary colors shown below also coordinate with the chakra system. Have you read up on the term loosh?

Pic1294


I am unsure of this psychic war of those on this side of things or on the other for that matter. The war is real though, and primarily instituted from the side you do not see clearly. I feel them enter into me and can find their words, I have had many thousands of obes and have seen them and how they are put together. I understand what is happening but I do not know how to explain it to others, they do not know what to look for. I have them inside me all the time and we are in constant communication I can release my self and allow them to move forward inside me this gives them temporary control, I can feel their thoughts and see the world through them for this moment.

Powessy

You are in a sense intuitively describing the orbs of energy as emotions. It can also be a representation of sound, which ties in heavily with our emotions. But this would get into the mechanics and evolution of the human species, and the remnants of a sonar type system which devolved after they exited the oceans.

I have heard of the term Loosh before, and have also read the account behind how the term came to be. I also have a superficial understanding of its significance in what is being discussed here. From there we enter Castaneda's world of Archons or the fliers chasing down astral entities and sucking on vital energy. My own experience differs dramatically, while I can understand the vampiric aspects and can see it as one of the potential perceptions, it is not an accurate representation. It may be possible on one level, but I honestly feel this is a misinterpretation of what is actually going on behind the scenes.

What you seem to be pointing to is the usage and movement of this vital energy as part of an overall flow, wherein you become the conduit thru which "they" for lack of a better term feed you a pseudo-Cartesian (3D grid) type system with directional instructions of where this vital/life energy needs to go. I may be off a little, so I will wait and see if this latter fits at some level in what you are experiencing.

*WM*

Powessy
12-21-2014, 06:16 PM
You are in a sense intuitively describing the orbs of energy as emotions. It can also be a representation of sound, which ties in heavily with our emotions. But this would get into the mechanics and evolution of the human species, and the remnants of a sonar type system which devolved after they exited the oceans.

I have heard of the term Loosh before, and have also read the account behind how the term came to be. I also have a superficial understanding of its significance in what is being discussed here. From there we enter Castaneda's world of Archons or the fliers chasing down astral entities and sucking on vital energy. My own experience differs dramatically, while I can understand the vampiric aspects and can see it as one of the potential perceptions, it is not an accurate representation. It may be possible on one level, but I honestly feel this is a misinterpretation of what is actually going on behind the scenes.

What you seem to be pointing to is the usage and movement of this vital energy as part of an overall flow, wherein you become the conduit thru which "they" for lack of a better term feed you a pseudo-Cartesian (3D grid) type system with directional instructions of where this vital/life energy needs to go. I may be off a little, so I will wait and see if this latter fits at some level in what you are experiencing.

*WM*

I also do not agree with the loosh theory it is something presented to me from a follower of Robert Monroe and his beliefs. My over all thoughts on these spheres is only that they are seen in this place in my mind and the significance is still being determined. I Have seen the seeds to life and as I peer into them I see a flowing of ever changing color. I would like to believe that all life is the same and all things are under the same pressure to survive but this I believe is imposable. If you were to peer into an egg and view the properties of the energy flow of a chicken, you would see the nature of this animal programed to adapt to the world it is going to be born to.

Powessy

Powessy
12-21-2014, 06:29 PM
On this forum I was also looking through many other posts here and came across this thread http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?1875-I-had-a-ET-encounter-one-day-ago-and-I-would-like-to-write-about-it. in this thread merjose is describing an experience he is having with what I call the sparteil. To understand this further if you were to look at my soul now it would look similar to the video that lycaeus published in this thread http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?1875-I-had-a-ET-encounter-one-day-ago-and-I-would-like-to-write-about-it&p=37253&viewfull=1#post37253. As each entity moves forward to find my mind you see its soul outline, I speak to many hundreds of different personalities per day in an endless rotation which allows each of them to become themselves again. I hope this explains what merjose is seeing or saw.

Powessy

WildMage
12-21-2014, 07:41 PM
I also do not agree with the loosh theory it is something presented to me from a follower of Robert Monroe and his beliefs. My over all thoughts on these spheres is only that they are seen in this place in my mind and the significance is still being determined. I Have seen the seeds to life and as I peer into them I see a flowing of ever changing color. I would like to believe that all life is the same and all things are under the same pressure to survive but this I believe is imposable. If you were to peer into an egg and view the properties of the energy flow of a chicken, you would see the nature of this animal programed to adapt to the world it is going to be born to.

Powessy

Therein lays the perception of war, sort of like waterworks when it comes to life; it all basically follows a path of least resistance. The rest is pathways which can be used to determine what this flow will look like. pressure is just a derived value based on volumes flowing thru constricted or non-constricted zones.

I do like your egg example as it illustrates this in a nice way.

*WM*

Powessy
12-21-2014, 11:33 PM
I would like to try and explain a theory I have on the soul. I have definitive proof of the soul but I also understand something else about the soul that I wish to share with others. I am going to introduce the word treemend to explain the soul. I have had great difficulty in the past trying to explain this to others due to the fact many do not feel them or understand this. The soul has two parts to it, it has a shape the one that fits the person we are, and it has it's true form the one I feel. The first battle is are we reincarnated or are we born to gain a soul and only become ourselves once. I believe in the reincarnation theory, just not the one many understand. I also believe that there is a world soul object one that is born for this world and part of it and she has the ability to have many children. Next we must understand source, source is of two parts one of the veil and one of this side of things. The first children born to her are angles but they are both of source(the veil side of him) and herself. The angels are mostly of the veil but are also able to be born of this world just not as often as we are. The other souls born to her, you and I, are born of her and source(this side of things), these methods produce two separate beings. The angels are world helpers in reincarnation along with her, they have the ability to shape the soul but also the ability to make the soul itself again. When I leave my body in obe I have the shape of this man I am today and his memories, these memories are held inside our treemend our within ourselves. After death and given the choice to be reborn the soul must become itself to become something again, I will not be this person again as he is today or on the day of my death. When the angel picks you up he immediately transfers you back into yourself to become yourself again, he then can place you into a new life. Our treemend is similar to a hair that the angel will carry upon his head this allows him to remain himself, unlike the sparteil that carry many souls not within themselves causing the angels many problems. The new child is the soul outside the treemend to become this new person till they die again.

Powessy