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Thread: intelligence gathering disciplines

  1. #11
    Wow, very powerful thread. The first page is solid (IMO) and chalk full of important points. I highly recommend people keep coming back and read through it.
    For every action, there is a corresponding over-reaction. -- Anonymous

  2. #12
    We can longer think of these issues as an Emerging Surveillance State.

    Surveillance State has arrived, its raging bipolar demands everyone submit and cower.

    Some nations are controlled by religious sects and force unjust religious laws upon the peoples.

    World wide, Corporations have infected governments.

  3. #13
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull.
    ~ George Orwell ‘1984’

  4. #14
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmjjc View Post

    I forgot to add this video to the above post. Relevant to today's world if you are keeping score.


    We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull.
    ~ George Orwell ‘1984’

  5. #15
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    The video below concerns the Boston Marathon Bombing in 2013.When something like this happens there is almost always an opposing point of view which appears claiming this and that and muddying the waters of the event so you have to take a sides of an ideological point of view. How should we as members of the human race dredge through all of this information overload?

    Is this video conceived by unknown participants with certain ideological propaganda of some element to invoke a particular response for a false flag propaganda event to invoke a radical mind set in certain individuals to identify the radicals swayed by this propaganda or is this just empty rhetoric for pushing a rating of one particular website to promote viewers and advertisers, or maybe it is just conspiracies spin of the actual events?

    Most people hardly ever know when they are being manipulated by propaganda of a particular ideology and those leaders of a cause who have no idea they are being manipulated through propaganda by professional manipulators and often they will wind up as sheep following whichever way the wind is blowing-- as their handlers are patting themselves on the back.


    We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull.
    ~ George Orwell ‘1984’

  6. #16
    Hi Atmjc

    Found this on AlienScientist forum. He has a least bothered to search out the facts.
    I see no reason to believe it is a false flag operation. The suspected terrorists had a motive 'they didn't like America' and what it stood for and there is plenty of evidence against them.
    As he rightly says in the video just reposting stuff without checking the facts properly just helps perpetuate hearsay and gossip. It also denigrates other conspiracy's which may have a really sound basis in fact.
    Conspiracy for conspiracies sake in my opinion.

  7. #17
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longeyes View Post
    Hi Atmjc

    Found this on AlienScientist forum. He has a least bothered to search out the facts.
    I see no reason to believe it is a false flag operation. The suspected terrorists had a motive 'they didn't like America' and what it stood for and there is plenty of evidence against them.
    As he rightly says in the video just reposting stuff without checking the facts properly just helps perpetuate hearsay and gossip. It also denigrates other conspiracy's which may have a really sound basis in fact.
    Conspiracy for conspiracies sake in my opinion.
    Yep, there are two sides of the coin and it is a matter of which side turns you on. Facts, whose facts, and facts and non-facts can be spun into a scenario? Can you be sure you are given the facts without persuasion to a point of view of the presenter and are given the full set of facts and not just the facts that would make you believe one way or the other?

    The only way to stay out of the manipulation game is to not venture into it by drawing conclusions that sway your opinion of reality by what ideology is presenting it.

    You do make my point Longeyes, which is one way or another when an event happens there will always be an opposing view which will be exploited by the ideology of the presenter which indeed muddy the water of the incident.

    Just because people are there doesn't necessarily make them involved in the plot. They can be innocent and look guilty and vice versa.

    Oswald and JFK is another example, was Oswald a patsy or a lone gunman? Plenty of really good facts out there. So which presenter of the facts do you want to believe.
    We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull.
    ~ George Orwell ‘1984’

  8. #18
    I don't think that's true in every chase and certainly not this one.
    I don't think it is a matter of opinion what went on in Boston, there is an underlying truth to the matter.
    It seems to be an American disease to some extent, not saying this to you personally, but things like creationism and climate change aren't a matter of just opinion or which side you think you are on, there is an underlying truth to the matter.
    They are backed up one way or the other with an overwhelming amount of evidence, that people chose to ignore or refute for whatever personal reasons, but that does not change the actual facts. If you stick your head in the sand and decry 'There is no climate change! There is no such thing as climate change!' Won't stop your house being blown away by a tornado, or stop the sea level from rising.
    Boston is a case in point the evidence is very heavily in favour of the prevailing facts and public opinion.
    That is not true of UFOs were the evidence for them is very clear and the opposite is true.
    Last edited by Longeyes; 12-30-2013 at 12:52 AM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longeyes View Post
    I don't think that's true in every chase and certainly not this one.
    I don't think it is a matter of opinion what went on in Boston, there is an underlying truth to the matter.
    It seems to be an American disease to some extent, not saying this to you personally, but things like creationism and climate change aren't a matter of just opinion or which side you think you are on, there is an underlying truth to the matter.
    They are backed up one way or the other with an overwhelming amount of evidence, that people chose to ignore or refute for whatever personal reasons, but that does not change the actual facts. If you stick your head in the sand and decry 'There is no climate change! There is no such thing as climate change!' Won't stop your house being blown away by a tornado, or stop the sea level from rising.
    Boston is a case in point the evidence is very heavily in favour of the prevailing facts and public opinion.
    That is not true of UFOs were the evidence for them is very clear and the opposite is true.
    Longeyes, you are totally missing my point. If I wanted to argue the Boston Marathon bombing on innocent or guilt or false flag I would have made a separate thread.

    The Boston Marathon video was an EXAMPLE of cross ideologies which serve a self-serving purpose for the ideology presented which favors the point of view of whoever is presenting their case.

    There is another name for this it is called CONFIRMATION BIAS which is the tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.

    People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.

    The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


    My post was an example of ideologies and persuasion which muddy peoples view and is called PROPAGANDA with intent to manipulate behavior and point of view.


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    My Original post#15

    Flesch-Kincaid Grade level: 21.
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    My apologies I may be writing beyond the comprehension of the average reader. I typically try and write my posts between a 9-13 grade levels with at least a 40 for ease of comprehension. I went somewhat beyond what was my intent to express.
    We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull.
    ~ George Orwell ‘1984’

  10. #20
    Ah what an idiot, now I get you.
    Sorry I guess it's that what I'm trying to fight against. And I totally agree people cherry pick the facts they read, and especially in the Internet age can vet their news media, leading to a very polarised view of the world.
    It's why I think it might really help if more politicians were science graduates. Science very quickly teaches you there is a truth which you an approximate towards whereas the arts, that whoever can craft the best argument and has the slickest PR wins. Politicians frequently ignore their scientific advisors and brush it aside as mere opinion.
    We need a more rationalist society, focused less on personal pride, ego and more on the common good for both us and the planet.

    This I think makes your point really well; I was listening to a programme on radio 4 listen again in the UK, about ghosts. There were four guests and the presenter, all the guests had seen a ghost. Yet two of them swore repeatedly that 'they did not believe in ghosts' It was like ?!? What!?! You've seen a ghost who is better qualified than you to confirm it!?!
    BUt it was easy to see where their dilemma came from... Society and the concensus is that ghosts are nonsense and they don't agree with scientific reason and therefore cannot exist. I would argue that they obviously do exist too many people have seen them and that the science is just not understood yet.
    But this shows how entrenched these ideas are, they aren't even the persons own beliefs. They can't upend their world view. They are clinging an idea, given to them secondhand by others who haven't questioned it either. Surely it should be the other way round your own direct experience should create your world view not what you are told secondhand. That also can't always be true or we would need to repeat every experiment from Galileo's time to feel we understand the world around us. People naturally like to feel secure and they build what they think is solidity around them. This however is only ever an illusion. There is no solidity even the feeling of solidity itself is just a secondhand experience through our senses.
    And you have to ask yourself how many of your beliefs are based on the concensus view held by society? Ok not as many by anyone coming here, but still loads because that is how we build up our picture of the world at school and through others. Ethics and all kinds of other things then come into play.
    Last edited by Longeyes; 12-30-2013 at 11:12 AM.

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