Tech question

[epo333]

When the issue of overheating was mentioned, it reminded me of a guy I work with who is heavy into high end gaming (advanced graphics).

He told he was using a water cooled motherboard on one of his desk tops. He said he got much more speed capabilities out of it.

Ha! I thought it was a oxymoron as water and electronics don't mix...!


???

[Fore]

When the issue of overheating was mentioned, it reminded me of a guy I work with who is heavy into high end gaming (advanced graphics).

He told he was using a water cooled motherboard on one of his desk tops. He said he got much more speed capabilities out of it.

Ha! I thought it was a oxymoron as water and electronics don't mix...!


???

Actually, thats where most high-end equipment is starting to shift to. Less noise, better performance.

(And water doesn't conduct electricity if it is purified enough. Which most water coolers usually come with a bottle or alternatives to water/alcohol mix or some purified water.)

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What most people are not really aware of are that PC's from big companies are sold with bargain basement heatsinks. So they are great for light work and_momentary_ medium loads. But if you try to do anything with these PC's that require intensive cpu use for longer periods of time, then it will overheat and the thermal protection will throttle the CPU till its within safety limits.

In rare cases, if the CPU exceeds a threshold, it will stop generating a signal to the power supply and the PC will reset power. Which if it is set to power on again automatically, the fan will go to 100% speed until it is within the normal temperature thresholds.

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All those issues goes away if the newer PC's shift from pre-packaged air cooling to water circulation straight from the factory. Fans fail from dirt and grime over a year. Then again, pumps fail too. So you never know.

Google for example water cools some of their server farms to save money and maintain a high performance environment. It's relatively pretty safe as long as you combine things the right way.

[A99]

Fascinating information. There are times when I'm working in a 3D animation editor where my laptop gets so hot, I'm afraid it's going to go KA-BOOM right in my face. I've thought about putting a couple of those jelled icepacks under it to keep it cool.

While we're on the topic:

Just How Much Water Are Silicon Valley Data Centers Guzzling?

"As the California drought lingers on and the threat of rising water rates becomes reality, Silicon Valley companies are looking for alternative methods to keep its computer farms cool.

...The search engine giant, Facebook and some other companies are also relocating some of its data centers altogether to climates where facilities can be cooled by the outside air year-round such as Sweden and Finland."

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/07/20/water-guzzling-silicon-valley-data-centers-california-drought-computers/

[atmjjc]

If graphics is the main reason you are looking to purchase a computer you must realize almost all laptops have an integrated system board which would be subject to overheating due to its compact configuration.

You might consider a desktop which has a non-integrated systems board this way you will be able to customize your computer with the hardware appropriate to your use and upgrade without most of the headaches associated with laptops. Most video cards have fans built right in them to keep them cool.

http://pc.net/helpcenter/answers/int...egrated_boards

[A99]

I agree atmjjc. I do want to have the option available to upgrade the graphic card hence why I would need a discrete graphic card for it. For this reason a desktop would be the route to go. If it's integrated then I'm stuck with what I have. Fore talked about the benefit of going with the newest processor which is the intel core 6th generation one. It's vastly more superior than the other generations that came before it.
But for the graphic card itself, I'm going to go with a dedicated NVIDIA card because dedicated cards are more powerful than integrated ones. The high end 3D software programs run on NVIDIA or AMD. They don't even suggest an intel equivalent.

On the other hand though, I'm still trying to process Fore's information which calls for a more holistic approach when evaluating computer system's and this makes a lot of sense to me too.

[Fore]

I agree atmjjc. I do want to have the option available to upgrade the graphic card hence why I would need a discrete graphic card for it. For this reason a desktop would be the route to go. If it's integrated then I'm stuck with what I have.

Keep in mind this may have been true back in the past Windows iterations. Since Windows 7 onwards the support for multiple [separate] graphics engines have been added.

So you shouldn't focus on getting the latest and greatest CPU from Intel. Typically they are pretty overpriced for a relatively small extra performance. As long as the CPU can keep the graphics engine (GPU) busy that is all you really need.

You can buy a desktop with integrated graphics (to save on money) and then just add the dedicated graphics board. One issue to keep in mind.

Low end boxes from the stores typically come with either proprietary Power Supplies OR Power supplies that just meet the maximum expected consumption of the computer in a stock configuration. So it is important to calculate (or at least lookup) the power needed for your dedicated graphics card. I believe for Nvidia they still float in or around 130watts to 200 watts for single GPU configurations.

So you will want to consider that overhead electricity that the stock power supply must provide. You also have to consider internal ventilation (which may not be as much of an issue as it once was in the past).

One more thing, careful with the cheaper sales, the power supplies inside come with inadequate plugs for additional internal accessories.

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I don't want to make your buy of a desktop a complicated ordeal, just keep in mind that what is sold in stores is often designed from the company in a cut throat way. Just enough power, just enough cooling etc.

I recommend looking at various stores over time, marking on a piece of paper what looks appealing to you. Just walk away at that point and just look up the models online to get an idea of what is on the inside. Usually the manufacturers will disclose the internal details on their website under "specifications". Including what power supply they used (how many extra internal power plugs they include) and what type of stock cooling they provide.

Then you can just sort out your options from worst to best, then take the plunge. If you just buy it blindly at the store by virtue of the external looks it is possible you'd end up with a weak power supply (or worse a proprietary one) that you'll have to pull out and replace (assuming it is possible) with a $100 or $150 power supply of your own.

Also might want to check that there are free 16x PCIe lanes available in at least one slot inside (there almost always will be these days).

Fore talked about the benefit of going with the newest processor which is the intel core 6th generation one. It's vastly more superior than the other generations that came before it.

I only consider Intel when I am buying used PC's at a steep discount. I don't like how they over charge for their newest CPU's.

Chances are 30% to 50% of the total cost of your PC is the Intel chip inside.

But for the graphic card itself, I'm going to go with a dedicated NVIDIA card because dedicated cards are more powerful than integrated ones. The high end 3D software programs run on NVIDIA or AMD. They don't even suggest an intel equivalent.

On the other hand though, I'm still trying to process Fore's information which calls for a more holistic approach when evaluating computer system's and this makes a lot of sense to me too.

It's all in the details. I have seen enough customers in the past who complain out-loud about what they find out they can't do with their purchased PC's.

Some of the companies (Dell/HP) sometimes even go so far as to design their systems around proprietary implementations that prevent people from upgrading. In some cases you can't just swap out the motherboard, or the power supply, nor really add a full length video card. They stop using proprietary designs when the system in general is a higher end design. (Probably because their suppliers won't stray from standards?)

[A99]

It wouldn't be so bad if 3D software companies didn't phase out their previous version of any given program when a new version comes out, but that's what they do to get you to buy the new one. In the meantime, any new plug in or anything that comes out for that program is only for the newest version of it. In addition to this, each new version requires a more powerful graphic card, this under the assumption that one at least has a dual core processor. You can't even complete an installation of a new version of something if you didn't bother to upgrade your graphic card. It's ridiculous!

Thanks for all of that very helpful info Fore! I will need to read it over a few more times to not miss anything... a lot to pay attention to. Can't goof up again like I did last year as I don't want to be where I'm at now having to dish out money again for a computer. Will comment later after I look a few things up wrt some of the content in your post. Thanks again for your help! This is great! I'm so glad you're here!