Reincarnation and ET intervention

[Sansanoy]

This is a continuation of a discussion that began in the Time Travel thread about reincarnation, Buddhism and ETs. Recap below.

Don't get my wrong I'm a fan of Christianity. I was brought up Church of England. Christian values are what has helped form the western world. But if you want to understand the nature of mind and why you are really here the bible - doesn't say much. It tells you about forgiveness, how to forgive others and yourself, but there is no mention that you can achieve liberation by any other means than prayer and leading a good life. That is no doubt possible but what you really need is some form of meditation to understand the true nature of mind. From a buddhist perspective even gods are subject to karma, only when you attain enlightenment and become in someway completely aligned with the perfect action of the universe are you free from karma. That means acting completely for others, being completely open to every situation. There are similarities there if you can see them.
In Buddhism there are demons, all kinds of spirits, ghosts, goblins, other worlds, lesser gods, gods and there conditions are all explained, a great master can tame them and bring them to the truth. Christianity leaves you with little understanding other than briefly mentioning angels and demons and from my knowledge that is far too simple to describe the world. Half the roadmap is missing. It does a great job on ethics but next to nothing on practicalities.
Fore talks about higher mind and how that all works it's all in buddhist teachings if you look. Meditation practice can bring you psychic powers, telepathy, the ability to fly, change shape, walk through walls, the dalia lama has an oracle, rainmakers, the list goes on. What people are realising in forums like this is that those kinds of things maybe possible. Explanations of the chakras and pyschic channels go back to the hindu traditions. East and west need to some extent meet.
What Christianity fails to mention is that you can attain liberation right here right now, you don't have to wait until you die. Reincarnation is not mentioned in the bible but I know you guys all believe in it. If so how does it work? and more importantly why.
I don't think these ideas need to be exclusive of God because really we are all aiming for the same thing we are just unsure of where that place is. At least in Buddhism you have great masters who have got there and can tell you how to get there.

Atmjjc what were the religions like in all your other lives can you remember details? Was there always Christianity? Hinduism? Islam? If so a what point in the past did the felines split? Different times? How did people's approach to religion different in these alternate universes?

Don't set the chihuahuas on me!

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If I understand Buddhism correctly, (forgive me if I am way off) it is a means of liberating yourself from yourself. When I talked with another Buddhist we tried to understand where we diverged. We came to an agreement that we are both viewing the same thing from the start, lets say a bird in a cage. The bird doesn't know what it's like to fly in the open skies, he's been caged his whole life. He agreed that both religions intend to free the bird from the cage. The difference I discovered was that in Buddhism the bird never leaves the cage (in that cycle) and yet becomes free of the cage as well as the sky. I guess among other things it is a separation from ideas of purpose? In Christianity the bird is freed and he gets to be the best version of a bird and fly the open skies. It's not just being forgiven but becoming fulfilled, becoming the best possible version of yourself. That begins right now but is completed at death, it is what we mean by born again.

As I understand it in Buddhism the gods are irrelevant to core Buddhism they may or may not exist. You could be a Buddhist Atheist for example. It's true, if you just read the Bible straight up you probably won't get a good understanding of demons, lesser gods, and angels. The Bible is just the collection of books that remain but the beliefs and context behind the writers and their words are available. All those things get laid out, but only when you know the context of the writer. In other parts of the Bible you can tell there are more detailed books about the subject but they are lost. The book of Enoch was one such case that has been found later. So the Bible doesn't have a lot of that stuff in direct detail, but the whole theology of Christianity and Judaism is pretty detailed on it.



If I have read Fore correctly, he had this before he became a Christian, and now that he is a Christian he no longer has the intention to use these sorts of things. Even though these abilities increase ones ability to accomplish things, even theoretically good things that doesn't make the abilities necessarily good abilities. There may be unseen spiritual consequences. That is not to say that I wouldn't want them, who wouldn't want to be a super hero? I just know my want for that is not based on a goodness, just an illusion of me doing good things. In all my day dreams of it, it is my ego that desires it, not any goodness within myself. Buddhism definitely has those things, and Christianity does not have them in the psychic sense, but they do have them a gifts from God with a life of their own. They work according to Gods purposes rather than our own.

I don't believe in reincarnation in the fullest extent but I do believe that the prominent belief is based on something real. The Bible kind of mentions it in Hebrews 7 where Levi pays a tenth to Melchizedek because he was in his father Abraham's loins. I get the sense that a part of the parents are a part of the soul of the child which would also explain the persistence of sin nature, and the continuation of the Neshama. But beyond that I wouldn't understand the ontology of a full reincarnation structure, or the purpose. Now that said I do share Origens inclination of Pre-existence. But I don't let myself hold that as a theology, but the thought and inclination is always very much in my mind. I think there is a real thing that is responsible for the varying beliefs of pre-existence and all the religious and scientific views on reincarnation I just don't think anyone has discovered what it really is yet.

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[Sansanoy]

The next interesting point is that in Buddhism, despite reaching enlightenment, they never really are able to sustain a physical body in perpetuity. They may transcend spiritually, may even transition into a reincarnation cycle where they rebirth and die in cycles....but they aren't able to put on and take off flesh "at will".

We never hear about a Buddist (correct me if I am wrong) coming back, putting on flesh (without rebirth) and telling us about how things went or to inspire us to continue to do the same path.

It just seems like they die like any other man and convert into a spirit just like any other man.

I have heard rumors on the web about transfiguration and/or people sustaining their living presence beyond the 120 years. But none of it seems particularly confirmed.

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Point being, I find it an incredible notion that UT/Angels can put on physicality and take it off as needed. (supposedly)
A (very) long time ago I came across Angel who I had questions for and the responses both uttered and what was in it's mind was EXTREMELY interesting and very peculiar. (long before I knew of the Bible)

It claimed it could put on physical features if directed to by God. (a tall claim)
When I directed my abilities to assess it's mind I came away with information crossing it's mind after being asked that.

Rules mostly, like they are prohibited from engaging in "worldly pleasures" (condensed phrasing).
They couldn't eat or partake of anything unless they were excepted by a higher authority.
They could only do it if they were directed to by some authority which was referenced.
When they did, they could not assume the face of any living being at that time. (no doppelganger)
There was a whole entire series of mental references on procedures to assure that above line didn't occur.

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All of that was nothing more than a strange occurrence. Until later....

When I finally changed and came around as a Christian, I wanted to look into (over the span of years) into the things which I had observed about the UT/Angels in years prior.

To see if there was any truth to the answers.

Interestingly, they really could (biblical) take on and off physicality. Not through some phasing technology like the ET who are physical beings just hiding inside a modified spacetime. No, actually become a physical presence and taking it off at will. No Birth, no Death. No corpse laying around on the ground as some kind of remnant.

Angels who would accompany God in some of the excursions ate and spoke and were physically present. When they left, they didn't leave any physical mass behind.

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Now you'd think that would be just a feature of the Angels/UT, but interestingly enough....

Jesus apparently also did the same. He re-appeared to the apostles after his Death and Resurrection. They who knew him best, didn't recognize him at first when he appeared. They touched him and he encouraged them to do so to certify his continued existence and to direct them to pass the events transpired as witnesses.

That is why they call them "the witnesses" to the Truth.

And as the same happened with the UT/Angels who took on physicality, when Jesus left them, there was no body laying in some corner. His physical presence simply disappeared.

God through Jesus also raised someone (Lazarus) who was thoroughly dead (by three days post mortem) as a sign that He could perform every thing He promised. As it was well within His scope of ability/power to do so.

So power to suspend death, they have it.
They also have the ability to take on/off physicality, which should rewrite "the notions people have" that "spirits" are just purely immaterial entities.

(Which also begs a question about the ET/UFO phenomena, but that is for later)

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So having said all of that, it begs the question. Why is there no one alive today that is free from death within our worldly domain?
Uber enlightened or not...why are none making an appearance and talking to us about it? (with the exceptions noted above)

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Hi Fore
Padmasambhava and Princess Mandavara are both supposed to be still in physical form, i don't think they are alone. Can't say I have seen them physically myself. Apparently the Buddha could have had a permanent body but in order to show everything is subject to change even enlightened beings he left his material body.
One master pointed out that while you are sitting on a train someone may well be an immortal how would you tell?
Also Buddhas may appear to you in physical form to teach you something then disappear.

And the answer to your last question - There may well be it's just how to find them is the problem

I don't know if we could or not.

That begs the question then, in my mind, then it must be a common trait among non-wordly beings?

And here is another question:

If an entity could put on and off physicality. Is putting on physicality (at will) the same as sustaining ones life indefinitely? My mind tells me there is probably a difference but what do you think?

If we measure death by physical biology alone....and one masters a transcendent state where a physical biology can be made manifest (materialized at will), does this also mean that the entity in a transcendent state can subsist indefinitely (in respect to the passage of time)?

The reason why I ask, is because I heard that ET's can switch bodies (through processes of technology) and port their essence (spiritual/psychic) into the new body. But when I skim ET literature (to see if other sources agree with the sources I know) it generally seems to indicate the same, but then I noticed that they introduce "a factoid" that their spiritual aspect eventually decomposes/goes inert after a prolonged period of time despite switching or swapping bodies.

Which if ET literature (not of my own sources) is true. Then it would mean they haven't actually resolved "death" as an issue. At least, perhaps resolved the issue of survival/transplantation of a consciousness across numerous bodies, but not across the aspect of a large time frame.

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Which begs the question, did Buddha just achieve survival of consciousness (sans-the-body) or also achieve a state of perpetual (spiritual) existence regardless of the span of time?

Because there seems to be various thematic views of life and death in the Earth.

--Death means, you stop breathing and your mind dies. (clinical)
--Death means, you pass on to sleep state, until everything is settled and judgement comes for some. (Christian)
--A state of Nirvana (sorry if I use the term incorrectly) means, you transcend into a higher spiritual transcendent state and don't want or urge for anything. (Buddhism: many variations)

But it is unclear what happens to the physical form. I am unsure if it is shed and left like any corpse or if it transfigured into another form. (?)
There seems to be various versions or paths and conclusions.

--A state of Reincarnation means, you die like any other individual, you go through various stages of life after death and are recycled into a state of awareness in a new body. (Many religious sectors, most prominent are the Hindu)

--Cannibalism means, the ancestor or body is consumed by another human being and is said to infuse qualities of the former OR lives on inside the one consuming the former. (many variations, smaller cultural zones)

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I can see some of the themes could generally cohabit and be individually/circumstantially true, but some versions seem to directly negate the others. (Clinical being the strongest negation of all varieties)


Well, no reason to stay in hiding. Then again, we aren't aware of what happens in all corners of the Earth most of the time.

If they reached enlightenment, then there was a reason for them to start the journey.
If they started out like any of the Billion or so other individuals, one would assume they would want others (if suitable) to start the same journey.
Then again, if you reach nirvana you would technically not display any such desire. (?)

Not sure why you would keep the utility of a body (or 4D perceptual existence) in such a scenario. (?)

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I briefly answer some of your answers Fore then suggest another thread to discuss this.

It's in actual fact the other way round, the greater reality is not the physical one we find ourselves trapped in.
We all eminate from the same point, that I think is why telepathy is possible, there is in one sense is no distance between your and other beings. But as well as being infinitely small it is also infinitely large as the place exists beyond space and time. We are recreated from moment to moment. The rigid solidity we actually perceive about the outside world is an illusion. When you die your emanation here fades, great masters can by all accounts have some control of their rebirth, as they can retain a certain amount of awareness throughout the transition from one life to another (Dalia Lama). Certain ETs know this but are bypassing the central station if you like. They are missing the reason why the masters are great in the first place. You don't need no attachment to anything, especially how you see yourself, any attachment to ego of any kind ( the rich man passing through the eye of the needle) it is the main obstacle to attaining enlightenment. They are essentially missing the point - death is there to help you. You exist at a whole other level, that is your buddhanature, and to become awakened is your real goal. In fact the reason you are born in the first place is an act of confusion. The ETs have somehow short circuited the 'system' this is why the are degenerating. When you actualise your Buddha nature you become Buddha there is no life or death they never existed from the very beginning.

[Sansanoy]

The ETs have somehow short circuited the 'system' this is why the are degenerating. When you actualize your Buddha nature you become Buddha there is no life or death they never existed from the very beginning.

This has my interest peaked. Are they reincarnating themselves back into the same existence or are they refusing to die and re enter the system?

[Longeyes]

Thanks Sansanoy for creating a new thread.
I can't say for certain that's what they are doing but it seems, from what people say, that they may have someway of controlling rebirth.
I don't know how Atmjjc's condition is related to this, it seems like the ET he's connected to, their race has another technology, is using different timelines to maintain the same carnation.
Maybe when it works differently when it just protecting a single ET and another soul is not involved. Atmjjc may know more.
But it always seemed to me that some races evolve technology over spiritual realisation and rather than pursue the path to truth, they shortcut the system and develop technologies to try to do prolong their existence as long as possible.
How much would you want to manipulate your own species DNA?

[Fore]

Thanks Sansanoy for creating a new thread.
[...]
But it always seemed to me that some races evolve technology over spiritual realisation and rather than pursue the path to truth, they shortcut the system and develop technologies to try to do prolong their existence as long as possible.
How much would you want to manipulate your own species DNA?

Not just their own DNA. But the composition of their minds and capabilities.

Are some ET's just existential "tweakers" who have run amok? (Reminds me of a Bible Quote somewhere)

Mixing and matching genetic componentry (on and off Earth) and tweaking the heck out of whatever psychic extensions they come across.

[Longeyes]

And our some just trying to create a species with a better chance of attaining realisation?
The millions of years of intervention which may or may not have happened with our DNA? Is that what that's about?
Have we turned out a wrong 'un, as Atmjjc seems to imply, and they are going to wipe the slate clean and start again.
Seems to me like there is possibly a balance between too much character and individuality (ie us) and some kind of hive being (ie the greys)
The hybrids David Jacob's describes seem to show a fair amount of character especially when left to themselves.
I don't think we've tipped over the edge yet but we are mighty close.

[Fore]

I briefly answer some of your answers Fore then suggest another thread to discuss this.

It's in actual fact the other way round, the greater reality is not the physical one we find ourselves trapped in.
We all eminate from the same point, that I think is why telepathy is possible, there is in one sense is no distance between your and other beings. But as well as being infinitely small it is also infinitely large as the place exists beyond space and time. We are recreated from moment to moment. The rigid solidity we actually perceive about the outside world is an illusion. When you die your emanation here fades, great masters can by all accounts have some control of their rebirth, as they can retain a certain amount of awareness throughout the transition from one life to another (Dalia Lama). Certain ETs know this but are bypassing the central station if you like. They are missing the reason why the masters are great in the first place. You don't need no attachment to anything, especially how you see yourself, any attachment to ego of any kind ( the rich man passing through the eye of the needle) it is the main obstacle to attaining enlightenment. They are essentially missing the point - death is there to help you. You exist at a whole other level, that is your buddhanature, and to become awakened is your real goal. In fact the reason you are born in the first place is an act of confusion. The ETs have somehow short circuited the 'system' this is why the are degenerating. When you actualise your Buddha nature you become Buddha there is no life or death they never existed from the very beginning.

You bring up such an interesting situational point though.

If some ET faction (with their level of technology) could readily transplant their essence from body to body, they would literally be tied to/stuck (mentally and spiritually) to a given situation.

Like a cosmic thought-to-intent trap of winning some unwinnable war if you carry on fighting long enough. Or building a planet a piece at a time.
Worse yet, if they are the "existential tweakers" of the cosmos. They will keep adapting their bodies and mind ad-hoc and eventually probably lose sight of the beginning. Excluding every other possible outcome.

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You know that is exactly what I found disturbing about observing the ET's I once knew. They use their 4D (pre-cognitive) perception liberally for any activity.
Yet at the same time, by chasing a goal with a fixed intent, they literally discount themselves from any other (truly random) occurrence.

Seeing into the future is a vicious circle (and I as a 3D individual can see that much). If you always go where you want, then you'll never see the rest of everything. Randomness has it's virtue.

Am I being dumb in my observation or is there something broken in some ET's minds?

[Longeyes]

I think the point is individual spiritual evolution. We get set in our ways so easily our habitual patterns and ways of looking at the world tend to coalesce as we get older. Living an extra 500yrs in the wrong conditions isn't necessarily going to help you, probably be a waste of time.
Dying and being reborn, forgetting our past lives is a great benefit to seeing the true ever-changing non-conceptual nature of existence. You get a fresh start.
If you bypass the system and reload your old memories into a new body you may helping to prolong your existence but you are stifling any progress towards awakening especially in a society and time like ours where confusion reigns.
Maybe it's like planting grain the same field too many times You get a poorer and poorer crop each time.
Also as you pass through to the next life you are given a life appropriate to past karma so that you learn. Death seems incredibly cruel but without it everything would stagnate.

[whoknows]

I think the point is individual spiritual evolution. We get set in our ways so easily our habitual patterns and ways of looking at the world tend to coalesce as we get older. Living an extra 500yrs in the wrong conditions isn't necessarily going to help you, probably be a waste of time.
Dying and being reborn, forgetting our past lives is a great benefit to seeing the true ever-changing non-conceptual nature of existence. You get a fresh start.
If you bypass the system and reload your old memories into a new body you may helping to prolong your existence but you are stifling any progress towards awakening especially in a society and time like ours where confusion reigns.
Maybe it's like planting grain the same field too many times You get a poorer and poorer crop each time.
Also as you pass through to the next life you are given a life appropriate to past karma so that you learn. Death seems incredibly cruel but without it everything would stagnate.

Could this help?
This is a video from a interviews between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers. It may shed some light... https://vimeo.com/90140722

[Longeyes]

That was really good he's on the money.
Apparently you can reach higher states by becoming exceptional at things, like a dancer, athlete, or a becoming a great pianist completely absorbed in what they do. A deep understanding anything, as it is a part of the world, can reveal a greater truth. Nirvana is like place inside yourself though, like where the dancer he talks about finds balance, if you do find it properly you never fall over.