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Thread: Questions about presidential "need-to-know" on class. info on ufos

  1. #1

    Questions about presidential "need-to-know" on class. info on ufos

    This is a confusing topic for me so to get the show on the road, I'm using the following quote from an online article as a springboard...

    In addition to this it is clear that because the UFO subject is such a serious National Security issue and therefore classified at the highest levels, the President, despite being the chief of the Armed Forces, would not necessarily possess a high enough security rating to allow him access to all the classified information on UFOs.
    http://www.timcolemanmedia.com/index...dents-and-ufos

    Because the president has the power to fire generals, admirals etc, if he wanted to know about ufos, wouldn't it make sense for him to keep firing top military personnel, right on down the line, until he gets one that's willing to give him those top secret files on that?

    Also, because the president is the one who appoints the CIA director... because he has his own guy in that position, one would think that that person would give the president whatever information there is about ufos and those top secret files on that too if he asks for it. right? If the guy doesn't want to give it to him then he can simply have him replaced with someone else who will give it to him.

    But back to that statement I quoted from that article.... it's basically saying that whomever/whatever is controlling ufos... that they are hostiles. There does not seem to be any ambiguity in that sentiment but what criteria are they basing it on? Also, because UFOs are, as they say, a 'serious national security issue', one would think that to deprive the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces (the President) crucial information on that, pretty much renders that position inconsequential. right?
    Last edited by A99; 03-11-2017 at 08:52 PM.
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  2. #2
    The quote is not correct. It's not just about the level of security clearance, it's also about being included in a 'need-to-know' list that is specific to particular program, project or mission.
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  3. #3
    I never thought it was as complicated as that and thanks for pointing that out to me.
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  4. #4
    Lead Moderator calikid's Avatar
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    I have to wonder, if a sitting President orders you to never reveal what you are about to see.
    Then a subsequent President orders you to reveal what you saw.
    Which is the "more" lawful order?

    On the subject of "need to know', I wonder if a list exists; if this happens, time to FULLY brief the President.
    Situations like:
    1) UFO crashes into major metropolitan city.
    2) Undeniable disclosure by another nation.
    3) etc.

    Of course, the Intelligence agencies may feel "plausible deniability" is a valid excuse for excluding the President. Keeping it from him for his own good.
    If he doesn't know, and unintended disclosure occurs (ie no spin doctors).
    He may avoid blowback, if he is not in the loop.
    The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
    progress. -- Joseph Joubert
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by calikid View Post
    I have to wonder, if a sitting President orders you to never reveal what you are about to see.
    Then a subsequent President orders you to reveal what you saw.
    Which is the "more" lawful order?
    ~~

    I once asked a Navy Officer a very similar question, and was told "Always follow the last order you're given"...!


    Still seems a "Grey" area don't it!

  6. #6
    Lead Moderator calikid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epo333 View Post
    ~~

    I once asked a Navy Officer a very similar question, and was told "Always follow the last order you're given"...!


    Still seems a "Grey" area don't it!
    Which takes us back to the maddening circle of "need to know" aka TS/SAP/SCP/OPSEC of information.
    "Have you been cleared sir? I must respectfully decline to reply"
    The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
    progress. -- Joseph Joubert
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  7. #7
    Senior Member atmjjc's Avatar
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    There are approximately 5.1 Million people in the U.S. with security clearances reported by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), which is over 1.5% of the U.S. population or more than the entire population of Norway. Not quite sure of the years probably 2013 or 2014 but the numbers are remaining consistent to date.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...026-131740500-
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by atmjjc View Post
    There are approximately 5.1 Million people in the U.S. with security clearances reported by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), which is over 1.5% of the U.S. population or more than the entire population of Norway. Not quite sure of the years probably 2013 or 2014 but the numbers are remaining consistent to date.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140...026-131740500-

    That's nifty Info , but here is a 2015 Special Access Program (SAP) Security Manual with a true sense of the mucky muck involved.

    Mind you this is just for SAP operations. (Interesting parts on foreign travelers, could that include "TIME TRAVELERS"?)


    https://cryptome.org/dodi/2015/dodm-5205-07-v2.pdf

  9. #9
    In the U.S. you only have 3 types of classification: Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. That's it. But this doesn't matter, since the true power of the classification system is the famous 'need to know' policy. Just because you have a Top Secret clearance doesn't mean you can gain access to all the different Top Secret documents of the CIA, Army, Navy, and Air Force.

    However, this 3-tiered classification system is not enough to protect some of the more sensitive information. Therefore additional levels of compartmentalization have been created. After a very intensive background check, someone with a Top Secret clearance might obtain an additional Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) clearance, under which information is buried that needs to be restricted to even fewer individuals. This TS-SCI clearance had been introduced mainly to stop some higher ranking officers from looking into Top Secret files they don't have any business with.

    But even the TS-SCI clearance doesn't provide the secrecy needed for some of the most sensitive projects. This is the reason that Special Access Programs (SAP) are created all the time. In this case only a predetermined list of authorized personnel has access to the project and additional security measures can be taken to keep outsiders away from it. Different congressional committees are informed about these SAPs, but there is very little time for questions.

    Most SAPs start out as Unacknowledged Special Access Programs (USAP), better known as Black Projects. The F-117A Nighthawk and the B-2 Spirit are examples of projects that started out as Unacknowledged SAPs.

    A DOD manual describes a USAP as follows (1):
    "Unacknowledged SAPs require a significantly greater degree of protection than acknowledged SAPs... A SAP with protective controls that ensures the existence of the Program is not acknowledged, affirmed, or made known to any person not authorized for such information. All aspects (e.g., technical, operational, logistical, etc.) are handled in an unacknowledged manner."
    Persons involved in a particular USAP are ordered to deny such a program exists. It's not allowed to react with a "no comment", because that way someone immediately suspects something is being hidden and might be motivated to look further into it. Officers not 'accessed' for a USAP, even superior ones, are to be given the same response. The more sensitive the program, the more protection the commanding officer can demand. He could even subject his personnel to lie-detector tests to see whether or not they have been talking about it to anyone.:


    Source: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...iopol_USAP.htm


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    There is a government in the dark that has its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own mechanism for fundraising, and the ability to follow its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from Law. "- Senator Daniel K. Inouye (USA) ( http://www.mind-surf.net/extraterra1.htm ) The Disclosure Project is a non-profit organization formed in 1993 by the Dr Steven M. Greer, with the intent to declassify and disclose all pertinent information about the UFO phenomenon and matters related to aliens, which this group claims the US government has classified and kept secret. National Press (USA) Dr Steven M. Greer introduced "The National Disclosure Project. "The notable thing about this was that it was the largest meeting in the UFO community and the great .. care quality Internet video media
    Last edited by A99; 03-13-2017 at 02:37 PM.
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  10. #10
    Thanks all for your input on this topic. With any luck, this current administration will wreak so much havoc, even those most deeply embedded USAP depts in the intelligence and military apparatuses/Deep State will eventually be revealed in some way and on some level to give us enough clues to tentatively begin to put the puzzle together.

    Chaos prevails so anything can happen.

    Thanks G-d for Wikileaks!
    Last edited by A99; 03-13-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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    For it is in giving that we receive.
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