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Thread: FBI Records 'Guy Hottel', UFO's & Radar

  1. #1

    FBI Records 'Guy Hottel', UFO's & Radar

    Good morning,


    I am starting this thread following on from recent debates regarding the possibility of radar and detection equipment having a negative effect on UFO's. While searching for information I discovered something of interest on the FBI's on site, please see link below and details:

    http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/guy%...%20of%201/view


    Having attempted to upload the PDF doc, which is not possible as TOP limit's things to 20kb? seems a bit tiny so I shall quote the contents below should you have any problems with the link above...

    "office memorandum . UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT


    To: Director FBI Date: March 22nd 1950

    From: Guy Hottel, SAC, Washington


    Subject: FLYING SAUCERS
    INFORMATION CONCERNING


    The following information was furnished to 'BLANKED OUT'


    An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called
    flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were
    described as being circular in shape with raised centers, appoxi
    matley 50feet in diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies
    of human shape but only 3 feet tall, dressed in a metallic cloth of
    a very fine texture. Each body was bandaged in a manner similar
    to the blackout suits used by speed flyers and test pilots.

    According to Mr 'BLANK' informant, the saucers were found in New
    Mexico due to the fact the government has a very-high powered
    radar set-up in that area and it is believed the radar interferes
    with the controlling mechanics of the saucers.

    No further evaluation was attempted by 'BLANK' concerning the
    above.


    RHK:VIM"



    Happy to have found this on the FBI website, I hope to bring you more supporting evidence regarding radar and it's effect's on UFO's.


    Kind regards.

  2. #2
    Senior Member majicbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lux aurea in obscuro View Post
    Good morning,


    I am starting this thread following on from recent debates regarding the possibility of radar and detection equipment having a negative effect on UFO's. While searching for information I discovered something of interest on the FBI's on site, please see link below and details:

    http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/guy%...%20of%201/view


    Having attempted to upload the PDF doc, which is not possible as TOP limit's things to 20kb? seems a bit tiny so I shall quote the contents below should you have any problems with the link above...

    "office memorandum . UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT


    To: Director FBI Date: March 22nd 1950

    From: Guy Hottel, SAC, Washington


    Subject: FLYING SAUCERS
    INFORMATION CONCERNING


    The following information was furnished to 'BLANKED OUT'


    An investigator for the Air Force stated that three so-called
    flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were
    described as being circular in shape with raised centers, appoxi
    matley 50feet in diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies
    of human shape but only 3 feet tall, dressed in a metallic cloth of
    a very fine texture. Each body was bandaged in a manner similar
    to the blackout suits used by speed flyers and test pilots.

    According to Mr 'BLANK' informant, the saucers were found in New
    Mexico due to the fact the government has a very-high powered
    radar set-up in that area and it is believed the radar interferes
    with the controlling mechanics of the saucers.

    No further evaluation was attempted by 'BLANK' concerning the
    above.


    RHK:VIM"



    Happy to have found this on the FBI website, I hope to bring you more supporting evidence regarding radar and it's effect's on UFO's.


    Kind regards.
    I find it highly creditable that radar could negatively affect some UFOs flight systems. I believe that some UFOs use a microwave system to heat and polarize the air around them and then use electrostatic charges on the surface of the UFO to attract itself toward, or repel itself off of, that air. Remember that the means of heating by microwave is spinning the Hydrogen atom which is highly magnetic. If the Hydrogen atom can be spun it can also be polarized to face one direction only. Relatively low power microwaves would influence the atmosphere near the craft so as not to need a large aeromotive source. Small tiles of metal could be electrically charged to interact with the polarized atmosphere around the UFO, much like those tiles which compromised some of the "Art's Parts" supposedly from the Roswell crash site, which were given to Art Bell of the Coast to Coast radio show some years back and analyzed with Linda Moulton Howe.

    Advantages of such a microwave flight system, rumored to also be used on the USAF B-2, would be allowing the UFOs flight to occur in a more rarefied air lessening the power required for flight and lessening the sonic boom problem. The flight system would be very reactive and allow very quick turns as the mass of the air involved would be far more than what would be found by deflecting air in contact with a flight surface such as in normal aircraft flight systems. Such a polarized microwave system could well also perform a radar absorbing, or reflecting, function depending on the incoming radar beam.

    It is also instructive that the first circularly polarized radar systems ( designed to prevent jamming and improve performance in storms ) were just being installed in the White Sands Missile Range in 1947. It was about this time that UFOs were observed to behave with the "falling leaf" behavior which might be a sign that this circularly polarized was affecting UFO microwave flight systems. It might be that this is what brought down the Roswell craft or crafts, or at least interfering such that during the storm thought to be associated with that crash cause the UFOs to loose control and crash into each other.

    Why do we not see the "falling leaf" behavior any more? The UFOs would have learned to adapt there systems to incoming circular polarization and could themselves use a microwave that accommodated the forcing effect of the ground radar and neutralized it from affecting its own flight systems. I think from what I've read that some similar systems are used by the USAF in counter radar systems that have been developed since Vietnam.

    Also in the "Condon Report" there was an appendix report that a US Naval photographer was crossing the Great Salt Lake Utah when he noticed white objects milling around in the air, but wearing polarized sun glasses they had "Newtonian rings" around each individual object, which he could not see without the sunglasses. He grabbed a 16mm camera and photographed them. The individual objects were not resolved in the frames taken and it was thought by Blue Book that these were seagulls. Seagulls have never been seen before, or since, causing "Newtonian rings" in the air around them. If these were UFOs and they were using a microwave system such as I speculate here, one would see "Newtonian Rings" in the air around them.

    Now, one can say this is all speculative, which is fair, but on the other hand without the USAF hiding and remaining silent on the details of what is a certain incident, we would better be able to judge without speculation on what really happened in Roswell and in the overall case for UFOs.
    Last edited by majicbar; 09-04-2012 at 01:53 PM. Reason: added material

  3. #3
    good afternoon Majicbar,

    Thanks for your input and very simply put, I believe your on the money regarding the flight and propulsion systems.

    Talking about this has made me question again the origins of UFO's. I believe the majority of sightings are in fact terrestrial UFO's which have been back engineered. As you mention the craft over the years having adapted. Now not being effected by radar equipment to the same degree as in the past.

    Which for me begs another question if these downed craft were as stated carrying a number of ET's how come they were unaware and unable to prevent crashing? It would indicate they were not from the future having no knowledge of the adverse risks regarding radar.

    If these ET's were not from the future they are in our present time frame and here now, or possibly from the past which would seem unlikely. This or very local in a cosmic way ie, Moon, Mars or Venus based?

    Of course the authorities will remain silent in fact I believe they will remain so until an event unfolds and then downplay having any knowledge or experiences of ET and UFO's.

    New York must have been a crazy place those few years back, Montauk project and Manhattan project I wonder what other secrets line those streets.

    kind regards.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by lux aurea in obscuro View Post
    Good morning,


    I am starting this thread following on from recent debates regarding the possibility of radar and detection equipment having a negative effect on UFO's. While searching for information I discovered something of interest on the FBI's on site, please see link below and details:

    http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/guy%...%20of%201/view


    Having attempted to upload the PDF doc, which is not possible as TOP limit's things to 20kb? seems a bit tiny so I shall quote the contents below should you have any problems with the link above...

    <snip>

  5. #5
    Senior Member majicbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lux aurea in obscuro View Post
    good afternoon Majicbar,

    Thanks for your input and very simply put, I believe your on the money regarding the flight and propulsion systems.

    Talking about this has made me question again the origins of UFO's. I believe the majority of sightings are in fact terrestrial UFO's which have been back engineered. As you mention the craft over the years having adapted. Now not being effected by radar equipment to the same degree as in the past.

    Which for me begs another question if these downed craft were as stated carrying a number of ET's how come they were unaware and unable to prevent crashing? It would indicate they were not from the future having no knowledge of the adverse risks regarding radar.

    If these ET's were not from the future they are in our present time frame and here now, or possibly from the past which would seem unlikely. This or very local in a cosmic way ie, Moon, Mars or Venus based?

    Of course the authorities will remain silent in fact I believe they will remain so until an event unfolds and then downplay having any knowledge or experiences of ET and UFO's.

    New York must have been a crazy place those few years back, Montauk project and Manhattan project I wonder what other secrets line those streets.

    kind regards.
    I think the proper working perspective is that most if not all of the extraterrestrial aliens are far in advance of the technology of flight than are we. I'm sure now that many of the UFOs seen are ours. The earlier UFOs which were of exo-origins may simply not have had the idea that we'd be as advanced as we were so quickly, radar for detection and tracking was basically a decade old in 1947, and was a special technical development of WWII origin. It may be that the aliens had little idea of what our radar would do to their fight mechanisms, they probably had to go to a special library of technological history to see how our "primitive" technology would work and what it would do to their UFOs. Once this realization had taken place they would see that with our atomic weapons we were becoming a dangerous force to Universal tranquility. There is the possibility that the craft were simply downed as with any aerial accident. Flight can be unforgiving and kill quickly. The forces of velocity, momentum and gravity all place any flight vehicle in a regime where any loss of control or awareness of situation will lead to an accident. Perhaps individual life is not a critical parameter in their social structure, maybe they are not technologically magic after all, there are many possibilities in what may have happened to bring them down.
    Last edited by majicbar; 09-04-2012 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #6
    I wrote a little about this back in 2011 when the memo resurfaced (as it does every few years).

    Have you ever heard of Silas Newton?

    Some of the more seasoned (read: tainted) members here will have, I trust you know Moore of Bennewitz infamy?

    Here's two pages from part 1 of CRASHED UFOS, EVIDENCE IN THE SEARCH FOR PROOF, William L. Moore, July 1985. (pages 19 and 20) which was originally presented at the 1985 Mufon Conference.

    Eight Rounds and Counting


    Sometime during Sept. or Oct. 1949, Newton began telling his crashed saucer stories to his close friend in Denver, George Koehler. The central theme in his story to Koehler was that a saucer had crashed in the vicinity of a high-powered radar site on the New Mexico- Arizona border, that the dead aliens were all about three feet in height, were dressed in garments made of metallic cloth, and that they wore no undergarments but rather had their bodies wrapped or taped. (These four points are important to remember: 1. High-powered radar site in Ariz.- NM; 2. 3 ft in height; 3. Metallic cloth; 4. Taped bodies). The die had been cast.

    Koehler, who evidently believed Newton without question, repeated the tale during early October 1949 to a number of his friends including Morley P.Davies, a field representative for the Walter J.Thompson Co. in Denver. Davies, in turn, repeated the story to at least two of his associates, Jack M.Murphy and L.J.van Horn, who were manager and assistant manager of a local Ford Motor agency there. In mid-December Murphy and van Horn in their turn told the tale, now fourth hand, to Kansas City auto dealer Rudy Fick who was passing through Denver on his way home from Ogden, Utah. Back home in Kansas City, Fick passed along the now fifth-hand tale to the editor of the Wyandotte Echo, a weekly newspaper published in Kansas City. In the telling, the name “Koehler” had now become “Coulter”, and the number of flying saucers in possession of the U.S. Government had grown from three or four to “around fifty”, forty of which were under study “in the United States Research Bureau in Los Angeles”. The bit about the high-powered radar site on the N.M.-Ariz border remained in the story, as did the alleged three foot height of the aliens and the manner of their dress. Fick implied that “Coulter” had actually seen the disc himself.

    The story, attributed to Fick, his friends in Denver, and ultimately “Coulter”, appeared in the January 6, 1950 edition of the Wyandotte Echo, and from there it was picked up by a number of other papers around the country. This attracted the interest of both the FBI & the OSI, the latter of which began investigating it as an adjunct to their case already in progress on Mikel Conrad. By early March a whole series of communications pertaining to the matter had passed between OSI headquarters in Washington DC and various field units, one of which, dated March 14, 1950 stated that Newton’s Nov.24, 1949 conversation with Cabot at the Lakeside Country Club had been witnessed by a “local KFI radio news commentator (name officially deleted) who, on a morning program, announced in effect that a party at a Hollywood country club had stated that he had information on flying discs and that the discussion took place over a round of drinks at the ’nineteenth hole’ (bar)… and that the ’story got better with each drink’”. (OSI had attempted to interview Newton at the time, but without success in that Newton had apparently gone off to Wyoming shortly thereafter).

    In any case, one of the agents at OSI headquarters in Washington, passed the Fick story, now seventh-hand, along to Special Agent Guy Hottel, one of his contacts in the Washington office of the FBI (with whom OSI often worked quite closely), who in turn, on March 22, 1950, generated a memo on it to J.Edgar Hoover himself. Hottel’s memo, repeating a now eighth-hand story but still retaining the four key points of the original Newton story (i.e. high-powered radar site in New Mexico [but now without mention of Arizona], three foot tall aliens, metallic cloth and wrapped bodies), has been cited out of context again and again by an entire array of UFO researchers as conclusive evidence that the U.S. Government is in possession of a crashed saucer. Had any of them bothered to research the matter before jumping to conclusions, they would have realised the memo is essentially useless in that the origin of the information cited therein can be traced directly to Silas M.Newton himself. So that there can be no question as to which memo is referred to, it is reproduced herewith in its entirety.

    (Source)
    And the following is from the August 1985 Mufon journal detailing proceedings at the symposium:

    CRASHED SAUCERS

    After an evening dinner break, the always engaging William Moore of Burbank, California, regaled the assembled audience with a talk based on two . full-length papers in the Proceedings, "Crashed Saucers: Evidence in Search of Proof," and "The Roswell Incident." Combined, they cover 50 of 180 published pages, and are well worth the price of admission alone.

    Moore contrasted a legendary (and apparently fictitious) crashed saucer report which appeared in Frank Scully's "Behind the Flying Saucers" with a similar report coming out of Roswell, New Mexico, which he and Stanton Friedman have investigated extensively. Briefly, the former tale can be traced to the handiwork of a convicted con man known as Silas M. Newton, and his equally shady cohort, TED PHILLIPS the "mysterious Dr. Gee," who turned out to be, Moore is convinced, one Leo A. GeBauer. Apparently the idea grew out of Newton's oil leases, GeBauer's self-taught electrical knowledge, and an aborted Hollywood publicity campaign for a grade B science-fiction movieknown simply as "The Flying Saucer," which was touted as having real footage of a captured flying saucer.

    GeBauer had developed a dubious device known as a "doodlebug," which was supposed to detect fluctuations in the earth's magnetic field and thereby signal the presence of oil, gas and other mineral deposits. Newton's somewhat imbalanced genius derived the idea of heralding the doodlebug as captured saucer technology. Scully, Moore believed, was an unwitting dupe in the scheme. More importantly, Moore added, the incident reveals how an official FBI document relating to the alleged crashed landing, after a diligent investigation, can be traced back to its fraudulent source in Newton's active imagination. In contrast, the Roswell Incident continues to hold up under scrutiny,
    Granted that this was four years before Moore was essentially cut-off following the Bennewitz revelations but it doesn't detract from the credibility of the claims as they are all still verifiable.

  7. #7
    AdverseCamber,

    Thank-you for doing me the kindness of uploading the memo, I did have a few technical glitches!

    Admittedly today is the first I have heard of Silas Newton, however yesterday when I came across the memo my immediate thought being 'to good to be true'.

    So I see a before me today a number of members who feel that yes radar could have a negative effect on UFO's and also that some members feel it absurd that an advance space travelling race could be effected by a simple radar system. I can understand and appreciate all of these views.

    When I look at our technological advancement over these past few decades I do so under no illusion that humanity has been assisted a great deal of late. I also look at these technical marvels as still being vulnerable. With thousands of systems and circuits, with redundancy and back-ups things do still go wrong. Accidents happen be it equipment malfunctions or human error I know one thing for sure technology is still as prone to the odd breakdown as are we it's operators.

    A consideration I have being maybe it's not just the craft that can be effected by radar, could it possibly be that the radar had a bad effect on the 3feet being's reportedly on board. Could it be that the craft under mental control of these beings was downed simply because ET got a real bad headache sitting in the 406Mhz radar beam? These are questions I look forward to finding the answers to.


    Kind regards.

  8. #8
    Senior Member majicbar's Avatar
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    "So I see a before me today a number of members who feel that yes radar could have a negative effect on UFO's and also that some members feel it absurd that an advance space travelling race could be effected by a simple radar system. I can understand and appreciate all of these views."

    "Simple radar system"?, I suggest some further reading on RADAR systems, (RADAR is in caps because it is an acronym). Radar is complex and very involved once one gets into circular and elliptical polarizations, which is why I think it was a watershed for the alien UFOs.



    http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an06.en.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarization_(waves)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar

    http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclo...larization.cfm

  9. #9
    Hi Majicbar,


    Many thanks for your suggested reading menu. The "Simple radar system" I make reference to simple from an alien perspective not that of our own.

    I believe the ability to manipulate frequencies is the ability to manipulate matter in a number of ways and is far from simple. Majicbar please report to the 'transporter room' feeling that modulating and manipulating frequencies are key to a number of devices we see on TV. Tractor beams and transporters could be utilised with the manipulation of frequencies? I say that simply because of the effects of acoustic levitation.

    I find the effects of frequency manipulation a fascinating subject in fact I enjoy nothing more than the discovery of resonating points. I have been known to create the odd earthquake in some of the large council blocks I have lived in with my killer sound system, some of my friends still refer to me as Dr Bass. Unfolding a wave of bass in a small flat and being able to target unpleasant local neighbours was a speciality of mine. You would be unable to hear anything yet several doors down I had people believing they had a haunted house as things were moving around seemingly of their own accord. Please don't get the wrong impression I at the time were doing a civic service as living in Europe's largest housing estate came with it's own problems when dealing with the unsavoury members of the community.

    Like the range of a RADAR tuning in low bass frequency to resonate a particular location a number of flats away took some time to master. The effect's of 4x15" bass drivers 2x12" and two normal pairs of speakers in a 8x10foot room are a wonder to behold when paired with 2 EQ's and an effect's chamber with echo, attack etc and the correct amplification.

    Kind regards.

  10. #10
    Image analysis expert Marvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by majicbar View Post
    "So I see a before me today a number of members who feel that yes radar could have a negative effect on UFO's and also that some members feel it absurd that an advance space travelling race could be effected by a simple radar system. I can understand and appreciate all of these views."

    "Simple radar system"?, I suggest some further reading on RADAR systems, (RADAR is in caps because it is an acronym). Radar is complex and very involved once one gets into circular and elliptical polarizations, which is why I think it was a watershed for the alien UFOs.



    http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an06.en.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarization_(waves)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar

    http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclo...larization.cfm


    Radiation along the electromagnetic scale is common in space (which include radio and microwaves). In fact, we learn more about the universe around us via radio/microwave than through optical telescopes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_Large_Array

    After traveling through this type of radiation to arrive on Earth, why are radio/microwaves a deadly threat on earth but not in space? Radar does not "hold a candle" when compared to the output of a star (among other sources).


    Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting...

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