Rendlesham Forest incident - Britian's Roswell

[lux aurea in obscuro]

Good afternoon,


I have just been reading some information on 'alienshift.com' I don't know how reliable the information is as it's my first visit? I was drawn in as I noticed when searching that Philadelphia Project and Project Montauk were both heavy into the manipulation of radio waves and frequencies.

What did grab my attention being this:

"There is another matter. Starting about August 6th, 1943, UFOs appeared over the Eldridge for about six days. They were there during the test. One of the UFOs was sucked up into hyperspace with the Eldridge and it ended up in an underground facility in Montauk in 1983. It contained a charging device which some aliens made us go back and get for them, as they didn't want humans to have it. We don't know who they were. Pruett was concerned about an alien invasion.
Also, Von Neumann was called by the government to come and assist in the examination of a crashed UFO in 1947 at Aztec. Another crash occurred at Aztec about a year later. The first crash had greys on it and none survived. At least one occupant survived the second crash. The radar systems unintentionally brought down the craft. Radar was used intentionally after that until the aliens got wise to it."

At this preliminary stage in my research I am unable to furnish any further regarding any evidence or official records to this effect, I will endeavour to dig a bit deeper. Yet it would seem to tie in with my much earlier mention on this thread that radar and detection equipment being employed around Rendlesham had negatively effected the craft.

Hope to have more soon,

Kind regards.

[AdverseCamber]

Good afternoon,


I have just been reading some information on 'alienshift.com' I don't know how reliable the information is as it's my first visit? I was drawn in as I noticed when searching that Philadelphia Project and Project Montauk were both heavy into the manipulation of radio waves and frequencies.

What did grab my attention being this:

"There is another matter. Starting about August 6th, 1943, UFOs appeared over the Eldridge for about six days. They were there during the test. One of the UFOs was sucked up into hyperspace with the Eldridge and it ended up in an underground facility in Montauk in 1983. It contained a charging device which some aliens made us go back and get for them, as they didn't want humans to have it. We don't know who they were. Pruett was concerned about an alien invasion.
Also, Von Neumann was called by the government to come and assist in the examination of a crashed UFO in 1947 at Aztec. Another crash occurred at Aztec about a year later. The first crash had greys on it and none survived. At least one occupant survived the second crash. The radar systems unintentionally brought down the craft. Radar was used intentionally after that until the aliens got wise to it."

At this preliminary stage in my research I am unable to furnish any further regarding any evidence or official records to this effect, I will endeavour to dig a bit deeper. Yet it would seem to tie in with my much earlier mention on this thread that radar and detection equipment being employed around Rendlesham had negatively effected the craft.

Hope to have more soon,

Kind regards.

I don’t know if you’re aware of Jacques Vallee as while his theories regarding the broader UFO phenomenon are considered by most to be scholarly they don’t exactly gel with the essence of the ETH and so aren’t exactly embraced buy Ufologists in general. My point being that while his theories are up for debate (as everyone’s are) I don’t think there has ever a question of his integrity or his honesty.

The reason I’m telling you this is because he investigated the Philadelphia experiment back in the day and wrote:

In an earlier assessment of the Philadelphia Experiment data, the author offered the tentative conclusion that the story was, in part, based on fact: the Navy may have been involved in technically-advanced, classified tests in the Fall of 1943 (Vallee, 1991). These developments could have been misunderstood or deliberately romanticized by people like Allende, just as today we find tests of advanced flying platforms at Nellis Air Force Base being misinterpreted by believers. Furthermore I hypothesized that the experiments had to do with a radar countermeasures test. Indeed a Raytheon advertisement published thirteen years ago suggested that the corresponding technology was now out in the open (Raytheon, 1980). This hypothesis, however, failed to explain a few of the facts that highlighted the story. In particular it did not account for the observed disappearance of the destroyer from the harbor, for the mysterious devices brought on board under extreme security precautions, or for the alleged disappearance of two sailors from a nearby tavern. I called out to any one of my readers who might have additional information. That is how I came to correspond, and later to meet face to face, with Mr. Edward Dudgeon.

This was then updated withg, amongst other things, the following interview:

"How long had all this secret equipment been available?"

"About six to eight months, as far as I can tell. By the time we sailed out, submarine warfare had turned in our favor along the East Coast."

"This doesn't tell us how the Eldridge disappeared into thin air, or what actually happened in the tavern in early August 1943."

"That's the simplest part of the whole story," Mr. Dudgeon replied. "I was in that bar that evening, we had two or three beers, and I was one of the two sailors who are said to have disappeared mysteriously. The other fellow was named Dave. I don't remember his last name, but he served on the DE 49. The fight started when some of the sailors bragged about the secret equipment and were told to keep their mouths shut. Two of us were minors. I told you I cheated on my enlistment papers. The waitresses scooted us out the back door as soon as trouble began and later denied knowing anything about us. We were leaving at two in the morning. The Eldridge had already left at 11 p.m. Someone looking at the harbor that night have noticed that the Eldridge wasn't there any more and it did appear in Norfolk. It was back in Philadelphia harbor the next morning, which seems like an impossible feat: if you look at the map you'll see that merchant ships would have taken two days to make the trip. They would have required pilots to go around the submarine nets, the mines and so on at the harbor entrances to the Atlantic. But the Navy used a special inland channel, the Chesapeake-Delaware Canal, that bypassed all that. We made the trip in about six hours."

"Why did the ships have to go to Norfolk?"

"Norfolk is where we loaded the explosives. Those docks you see on the aerial photographs are designed for ammunition. The Navy loaded ships twenty-four hours a day. They could load a destroyer in four hours or less. I know that's where the Eldridge went, and she wasn't invisible, because we passed her as she was on the way back from Virginia, in Chesapeake Bay."

"In other words, the process was: out of dry dock, down the canal, loading ammunition in Norfolk, back to Philadelphia, out to sea to set the compasses and test radar and sonar gear?"

"Exactly. The Eldridge never disappeared. All four ships went to Bermuda in July 43 and came back together in early August. During that time we were also caught in a storm that created a display of green fire accompanied by a smell of ozone. The glow abated when it started raining."

The full Vallee interview/text is available in his paper titled, “Anatomy of a Hoax: The Philadelphia Experiment Fifty Years Later” and is available in “The Journal Of Scientific Exploration.” – vol_08-01 - (Click text) .

In fact a lot of the points you raised are addressed, the following is an excerpt from “The Montauk Project”:

The Montauk Project

Today most students of ufology (including such early proponents of the Allende
letters as Jerome Clark) are in agreement that the Philadelphia Experiment
hoax, which rested on very flimsy data to begin with, should have died a
long time ago. It did not even involve any clear indications that might be directly
relevant to ufology, since none of the witnesses described unusual objects
in the sky or unusual beings. The case should have died a peaceful death
in the sixties. Yet it has survived and thrived in a peculiar niche of the paranormal
to this day. After a UFO lecture, or during a talk show, it is a common experience
to have a member of the audience eagerly raise the question, "what
about the Philadelphia Experiment?" And the whole "mystery" is now rebounding
in a new form through the Montauk project, an alleged time-travel
experiment. Here again there is a secret setting (an Air Force Base in New
York rather than a Navy base in Pennsylvania), a book, alleged witnesses, and
a videotape.

There is even a workshop on "Time Travel and the Alien Presence - a report
on the Philadelphia Experiment and the Montauk Project" by A1 Bielek,
Preston Nichols and Duncan Cameron for $150 in tuition, plus meals and
shared lodging at $100, or $70 for camping. In the catalog of forthcoming
events of the Rim Institute for 1993 one can read an advertisement which
claims:

The Montauk project has been called one of America's
greatest modern mysteries. The story began with the pioneering
work of Wilhelm Reich and Nikola Tesla, took form in
government-sponsored weather control experiments in the
early 1940s, and crystallized in the ill-fated Philadelphia Experiment
on invisibility during World War Two. The
Philadelphia Experiment was closed, but long-term research
continued. The Montauk project, running through the seventies
and early eighties at New York's Montauk Air Force
Base, was an attempt to explore, chart and ultimately manipulate the flowe of time.


The key witness for these new revelations is Preston Nichols, who "regained
the blanked memories of his role as chief technician for the project only after
years of struggle." Alfred Bielek, co-author of the Philadelphia Experiment
(in the book by Brad Steiger) claims to be one of two sailors who "fell through
time" from the 1940s to 1983 and who later served as a consultant at Montauk.
Duncan Cameron, "the foremost psychic employed by the Project," also fell
through. In a very convoluted story, A1 Bielek claims to have been born as Edward
Cameron, who was Duncan Cameron's brother. Then alien technology
was used by secret government agencies to erase him from his own time track
and to give him the body and background of Alfred Bielek, born in 1927. Advertising
the seminar run by Bielek and his fellow time-travelers the Rim Institute
brochure concludes: "their story, whether accepted or not, is guaranteed
(sic) to stretch the limits of your reality."

That last statement, at least, has the ring of truth.

It’s quite a lengthy interview and paper and of course whilst I personally believe this revised edition by Vallee to be the most accurate, whether you do or not I would still encourage you to read his paper as at the very least (in my experience) it’s best to fully grasp what is being claimed, the origins if possible and the subsequent findings of ALL involved in heavily researching it.

[lux aurea in obscuro]

Good morning AdverseCamber,


Thank-you most kindly for a full fat response! I also find it very interesting how peoples take on situations change over the years. I would not want to ruin this thread regarding Rendlesham as being off topic for introducing too much material relating to the USS Eldridge.

I currently concern myself with the possible effect's of radar and detection equipment on UFO's. I have taken a read of the Vallee interview but find it only makes a real mess of thing's almost as if to dismiss the whole experiment as a drunken sailors jolly.

So if we wish to discuss the USS Eldridge 'which I am happy too', maybe we should start a dedicated thread?

Back on topic AdverseCamber I have a question for you if you care to indulge me? I am grateful for your response to my post's and your level of reasoning which seems sound. Yet from my perspective it seems you are only to happy to dismiss the notion that our radar and detection equipment could negatively effect UFO's? So I ask you do you believe it is possible that this is indeed the case?

I would like you take on that particular situation if you care too share. For me I believe that the Rendlesham incident was effected by the equipment being employed at the time, yet that is just my opinion until I can prove otherwise.

I have been thinking a great deal about radars and feel something could be afoot, allow me to elaborate. In the UK alone we have hundreds of different radars all for a reasonably small island. I understand they are vectoring and 3D mapping targets 24/7 and have a lot of work to do. When considering Military / commercial / private airfields and redundancy issues I still find it hard to believe we require just so many. I ponder just now if these mammoth machines have a duel purpose, is the number of radars and like equipment possibly explained if we consider them as being a UFO deterant?

Did we as in other countries knowingly build as many radar installations as poss knowing that they were silent security for our sky's and if any UFO's were caught close to the facility they could have problems.

UFO's and airbases strange when reflecting I notice the most famous cases are reported around airbases which would be using radar and such equipment. I know people maybe even TOP members having been operators and installation engineers reading this could give us your take, which would help me ton's! I am now going to bog off and learn all I can about radar's past and present and see if I can't simply erect one up top of me council flat and pull in a few far flung friends for a wee chat.

Kind regards.

[AdverseCamber]

Thank-you most kindly for a full fat response! I also find it very interesting how peoples take on situations change over the years. I would not want to ruin this thread regarding Rendlesham as being off topic for introducing too much material relating to the USS Eldridge.

I currently concern myself with the possible effect's of radar and detection equipment on UFO's. I have taken a read of the Vallee interview but find it only makes a real mess of thing's almost as if to dismiss the whole experiment as a drunken sailors jolly.

With the greatest respect it doesn’t sound like you’ve read it, it’s not just an interview but so much more. As it is indeed titled, it’s the anatomy of a hoax, the following is stated within the paper :

“Using this incident as a model of a successful hoax, the present article extracts thirteen parameters that have been instrumental in its remarkable survival over the last fifty years; it compares the features of this fabrication to other questionable episodes of UFO lore; finally, it attempts to draw up a list of suitable measures for their detection, challenge and ultimate exposure.

[…]

In conclusion we will attempt to draw general lessons from the survival of this blatant hoax over half a century. We have identified thirteen important features that made the story compelling. It is our hope that the safeguards drawn from the study can help us recognise patterns this outright fabrication shares with other tales that arc: capturing the imagination of paranormal researchers today.

Vallee also specifically states his research indicated top secret testing was going on:

What Actually Happened in Philadelphia

In an earlier assessment of the Philadelphia Experiment data, the author offered the tentative conclusion that the story was, in part, based on fact: the Navy may have been involved in technically-advanced, classified tests in the Fall of 1943 (Vallee, 1991). These developments could have been misunderstood or deliberately romanticized by people like Allende, just as today we find tests of advanced flying platforms at Nellis Air Force Base being misinterpretedby believers. Furthermore I hypothesized that the experiments had to do with a radar countermeasures test. Indeed a Raytheon advertisement published thirteen years ago suggested that the corresponding technology was now out in the open (Raytheon, 1980). This hypothesis, however, failed to explain a few of the facts that highlighted the story. In particular it did not account for the observed disappearance of the destroyer from the harbor, for the mysterious devices brought on board under extreme security precautions, or for the alleged disappearance of two sailors from a nearby tavern. I called out to any one of my readers who might have additional information. That is how I came to correspond, and later to meet face to face, with Mr. Edward Dudgeon.

"I am a sixty-seven year old retired executive. I was in the Navy from 1942 through 1945," began Mr. Dudgeon's letter (Dudgeon, 1992) explaining his purpose in contacting me (see Figure 3.) He confirmed that the idea of an actual, secret technical development was correct, but he said I was wrong about a radar test. The truth, as he patiently wrote to me, was simpler.

And regarding the ‘drunken sailors jolly,’ seriously I’m at a total loss as to how you arrived at that conclusion. The tavern scenario is an integral part of the Philadelphia experiment lore and this is the exact context in which Vallee addresses it and is the only time alcohol is mentioned, was the following the totality of why you assume it’s a ‘drunken sailors jolly’:

"This doesn't tell us how the Eldridge disappeared into thin air, or what actually happened in the tavern in early August 1943."

"That's the simplest part of the whole story," Mr. Dudgeon replied. "I was in that bar that evening, we had two or three beers, and I was one of the two sailors who are said to have disappeared mysteriously. The other fellow was named Dave. I don't remember his last name, but he served on the DE 49. The fight started when some of the sailors bragged about the secret equipment and were told to keep their mouths shut. Two of us were minors. 1 told you 1 cheated on my enlistment papers. The waitresses scooted us out the back door as soon as trouble began and later denied knowing anything about us. We were leaving at two in the morning.

So if we wish to discuss the USS Eldridge 'which I am happy too', maybe we should start a dedicated thread?

I think that ship has sailed (pun wholeheartedly intended).

Back on topic AdverseCamber I have a question for you if you care to indulge me? I am grateful for your response to my post's and your level of reasoning which seems sound. Yet from my perspective it seems you are only to happy to dismiss the notion that our radar and detection equipment could negatively effect UFO's? So I ask you do you believe it is possible that this is indeed the case?

I would like you take on that particular situation if you care too share. For me I believe that the Rendlesham incident was effected by the equipment being employed at the time, yet that is just my opinion until I can prove otherwise.

I have been thinking a great deal about radars and feel something could be afoot, allow me to elaborate. In the UK alone we have hundreds of different radars all for a reasonably small island. I understand they are vectoring and 3D mapping targets 24/7 and have a lot of work to do. When considering Military / commercial / private airfields and redundancy issues I still find it hard to believe we require just so many. I ponder just now if these mammoth machines have a duel purpose, is the number of radars and like equipment possibly explained if we consider them as being a UFO deterant?

Did we as in other countries knowingly build as many radar installations as poss knowing that they were silent security for our sky's and if any UFO's were caught close to the facility they could have problems.

UFO's and airbases strange when reflecting I notice the most famous cases are reported around airbases which would be using radar and such equipment. I know people maybe even TOP members having been operators and installation engineers reading this could give us your take, which would help me ton's! I am now going to bog off and learn all I can about radar's past and present and see if I can't simply erect one up top of me council flat and pull in a few far flung friends for a wee chat.

That’s sort of a ‘wife-beater fallacy’ question as I don’t necessarily believe that the ETH has the answer to all the questions the UFO enigma poses and certainly not the classical ETH, i.e. that which presupposes that sentient extraterrestrial biological entities have traversed deep space in order to visit our planet. I personally believe it fails on even the most fundamental levels, I don't discount it but struggle to reconcile it with some of the more 'high strangeness' cases.

However if this is the scenario you’re suggesting then I believe it’s absurd to think a race capable of creating spaceships that can travel at or around the speed of light yet still manage to avoid the many asteroid belts, debris & space junk would be foiled by relatively simplistic earth radar.

If anything I’d favour the rationale that if it flies, it can crash. (Occam gets a hard time but he had a point).

But to answer your question and assuming for a minute that the ETH is 100% correct then it’s not too much of a stretch of the imagination that another race that, amongst other things, was interested in our technological capabilities would frequent military establishments to gauge this. Which would also account for, as you pointed out, their propensity to crash near to radar installations.

The entire proposition strikes me as, ‘cum hoc ergo propter hoc’.

And as an answer to the RFI I’m unaware of any object crashing let alone as a result of radar interference but to be honest there’s that many conflicting stories surrounding the modern-day myth it has now morphed into that nothing would surprise me…

[lux aurea in obscuro]

Good morning AdverseCamber,

Many thanks once again for some delicious food for thought first thing this morning.

Firstly please except my apologises regarding "wife-beater fallacy" lines of questioning, although I am starting to enjoy the possibility of some BDSM bondage it's not my intention to offend or cause harm.

I can assure you I had read your suggested work of Vallee, and as you pointed out the 'top secret testing' had me spinning as on one hand we have a ship that did not disappear but simply set sail. On another level we have equipment and wires wrapped around the craft inside and out to demagnetise the vessel, which is connected to two other support ship's containing equipment via extensive cables. I would have thought with the ship in dock prepared for the experiment it would not have been as simple as just sailing away? Yet as you mention "that ship has sailed" Owing to such I see no point in presenting evidence supporting these top secret experiments aboard the Eldridge.

Thanks for your clarification on the point of radar effecting UFO's negatively, I agree 100% that we have way too many conflicting stories. I also find it hard to believe although not absurd that a simplistic radar could effect a "race capable of creating spaceships that can travel at or around the speed of light".

Now back to Rendlesham, and the symbols which were wrote down:

rendlesham symbols.jpg

These symbols were recorded as been witnessed on the craft, these symbols are very similar to those depicted at the Japanese 'Utsuro Bune' 1803 incident. I notice that one particular symbol which is a large triangle in a circle, with a large circle to the front of the triangle and a smaller one behind it happens to represent 'transmutation' in alchemy. The transmutation of one element to another.

Feeling these recorded symbols will be our key to unlocking what happened, also believing these symbols warrant additional investigation. I understand that one symbol can have many meanings, however within the context of our thread here keeping things simple. Let us just for a moment assume that the main symbol as mentioned indeed relays to 'transmutation, transmuting'. Can anybody give any clue as to what they think the other symbols could represent? Could the three smaller symbols in the middle of the top row be a 3D key of sorts?

Kind regards.

[Longeyes]

Hi adverse camber
I always ask people before I try to open their minds to the possibility that some Ufos are ET craft
Do you think there is other intelligent life in the universe? And the answer has always been yes. The problem we have is I think twofold. One we are heavily biased and think our technology is pretty advanced and can see now way it could get any better. To which the obvious answer is we a naiscient species with barely 150yrs of real technological development where would we be in a thousand hundred thousand or even a million years time? We have no idea in terms of our science how they can get here, but we'd be pretty unrealistic to think we know all the answers. The second problem is well why haven't I heard about it then. Why is this such a minority view? That takes a lot to overcome standing apart from the mainstream and the concensus reality puts us in a very uncomfortable place. In no way am I suggesting that all Ufos are ET craft by the term that would be daft. But there are plenty of very decent cases were it is clear that craft show signs of intelligent control and technological capabilities way beyond our current technology. To these the ETH Hypothesis has got to be well backed up

[AdverseCamber]

Hi adverse camber
I always ask people before I try to open their minds to the possibility that some Ufos are ET craft
Do you think there is other intelligent life in the universe? And the answer has always been yes. The problem we have is I think twofold. One we are heavily biased and think our technology is pretty advanced and can see now way it could get any better. To which the obvious answer is we a naiscient species with barely 150yrs of real technological development where would we be in a thousand hundred thousand or even a million years time? We have no idea in terms of our science how they can get here, but we'd be pretty unrealistic to think we know all the answers. The second problem is well why haven't I heard about it then. Why is this such a minority view? That takes a lot to overcome standing apart from the mainstream and the concensus reality puts us in a very uncomfortable place. In no way am I suggesting that all Ufos are ET craft by the term that would be daft. But there are plenty of very decent cases were it is clear that craft show signs of intelligent control and technological capabilities way beyond our current technology. To these the ETH Hypothesis has got to be well backed up

I appreciate what you’re saying and I actually agree with you but intelligently controlled & physics-defying is one thing and whether or not they’re controlled by off-world sentient beings is another thing completely. Sure there are cases when it seems to be the obvious solution but these are so scarce it doesn’t seem like the solution for the majority of unexplained incidents. Just to be clear I mean well-researched and well-documented cases just won’t seem to conform or be shoehorned into the somewhat limited possibilities that the ETH provides.

Like I said I don’t discount it but have problems reconciling it with some of the high strangeness cases, in a vain attempt to drag this thread back on topic, as Rendlesham aficionado Jenny Randles termed it, ‘the Oz factor’.

In my experience and in a lot of cases the ETH is more often than not found wanting.

[Doc]

Charles Halt, Former Air Force Colonel, Accuses U.S. Of UFO Cover-Up

Posted: 09/24/2012 2:07 pm EDT Updated: 09/24/2012 3:30 pm EDT



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...d-news_top_art







UFO News, Video, Nick Pope, Smithsonian Institution, Air Force Project Blue Book, Area 51 Lecture, Col. Bill Coleman, Col. Bob Friend, Col. Charles Halt, Col. John Alexander, Flying Saucers, Military Ufos, National Atomic Testing Museum, Ufo Secrets, Uk Ministry Of Defense, Unidentified Flying Objects, Weird News






LAS VEGAS -- Former Air Force Col. Charles Halt accused the federal government of a UFO cover-up that involves a secret agency to deal with what might be extraterrestrial visitations.
"I'm firmly convinced there's an agency, and there is an effort to suppress," Halt told an audience of 200 people Saturday night at the Smithsonian-affiliated National Atomic Testing Museum.
Two former Air Force officers who were part of the infamous Project Blue Book -- the military's official UFO investigation in the 1950s and '60s -- and a former investigator with Britain's Ministry of Defense were among the panel of speakers for a program entitled "Military UFOs: Secrets Revealed."

[CasperParks]

Charles Halt, Former Air Force Colonel, Accuses U.S. Of UFO Cover-Up
Posted: 09/24/2012 2:07 pm EDT Updated: 09/24/2012 3:30 pm EDT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ird-news_top_a




UFO News, Video, Nick Pope, Smithsonian Institution, Air Force Project Blue Book, Area 51 Lecture, Col. Bill Coleman, Col. Bob Friend, Col. Charles Halt, Col. John Alexander, Flying Saucers, Military Ufos, National Atomic Testing Museum, Ufo Secrets, Uk Ministry Of Defense, Unidentified Flying Objects, Weird News


LAS VEGAS -- Former Air Force Col. Charles Halt accused the federal government of a UFO cover-up that involves a secret agency to deal with what might be extraterrestrial visitations.
"I'm firmly convinced there's an agency, and there is an effort to suppress," Halt told an audience of 200 people Saturday night at the Smithsonian-affiliated National Atomic Testing Museum.
Two former Air Force officers who were part of the infamous Project Blue Book -- the military's official UFO investigation in the 1950s and '60s -- and a former investigator with Britain's Ministry of Defense were among the panel of speakers for a program entitled "Military UFOs: Secrets Revealed."

Interesting read.

[majicbar]

Col. Halt was at the UFO conference in Las Vegas at the Nuclear Test Museum, was supposedly the most solid of all the speakers.