Do all mice go to heaven?

[lycaeus]

This little guy does:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MtEsu0mBAA

[kleemkrishnaya]

This little guy does:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MtEsu0mBAA

Poor little mite, with pretty pointy face, bright eyes, tiny fingers, & innocent heart. I hope he runs free - free of man's speciesism, prejudice against his bodily form, & belief in their own superiority. We'll see how humans "go to heaven" when a superior force/alien snaps our necks; will we die with as much grace? Not likely, we carry too much shame.

If we can not respect the species we share this planet with, what hope is there that we will be able to co-exist peacefully with ANY SPECIES? SHAME ON THE MAKER OF THIS VIDEO.:mad:

[calikid]

Poor little mouse?
Obviously you've never come home to find the ignition wires crewed to bits in the automobile you left parked in your garage.
Or had the water lines chewed to bits inside your washing machine when Mighty Mouse got thirsty.
A few of the problem I have experienced.

The video may be disturbing, but mice are truly pests that can cause serious damage.

[southerncross]

I lived and worked in the country for decades. We would only kill rattlesnakes. (We only saw 2 and I shot them). But all the non poisonous snakes, and there were many quite large and beautiful ones, were allowed to live around us. We somehow developed a tolerance for each other. I never had a mouse or field rat problem and my cars and tractor were left outside much of the time. Mother Nature knows what's she's doing. So I let her balance the scales. Everyone was happy....except the mice.

[lycaeus]

Personally I am a little conflicted with how nature works. Animals go around tearing each other apart and there is so much suffering and disease, but that is nature. We have to accept that we are a part of this ruthless nature and try to live and die with as much grace as we can. Well, they say this is the realm of the corrupt Demiurge and things have been forced out of their divine ways of life and being by demiurge and archon influences. There is even an argument to be made that viruses are forms of technology because the mathematics of a virus are too improbable to fit in with nature, as we're equipped to handle I think 500 000 infections, but then we have all these histories of pandemics and people dying... maybe one day we'll exist without any killing. But until then, I am in this realm and must accept physicality, which includes death. At least our spirits live on though ;)

[majicbar]

I believe the point of the video is the spirit plasma seen to depart the mouse at 41 - 42 seconds. While we face the possibility of CGI manipulation, if we go on the notion that the video has captured the mouse's spirt after it's death, we have something of interest here. I once saw an aparition at my mother's nursing home, a white vaporus light like the one see departing the mouse. I found out later that a lady down the hall had died around the time I saw this apparition. The ghostly apparition has often been mentioned but I don't recall a video of one actually leaving a body at death.

[majicbar]

Personally I am a little conflicted with how nature works. Animals go around tearing each other apart and there is so much suffering and disease, but that is nature. We have to accept that we are a part of this ruthless nature and try to live and die with as much grace as we can. Well, they say this is the realm of the corrupt Demiurge and things have been forced out of their divine ways of life and being by demiurge and archon influences. There is even an argument to be made that viruses are forms of technology because the mathematics of a virus are too improbable to fit in with nature, as we're equipped to handle I think 500 000 infections, but then we have all these histories of pandemics and people dying... maybe one day we'll exist without any killing. But until then, I am in this realm and must accept physicality, which includes death. At least our spirits live on though ;)
On the otherhand when one considers how fleeting life is, the notion of a spirit lasting perhaps for all time makes this, our fleeting existence, the odd consideration. When we look at the chaos of life, it's heartless and cold calculation for it's fleeting moment in eternity, it is almost comical.

[Fore]

I believe the point of the video is the spirit plasma seen to depart the mouse at 41 - 42 seconds. While we face the possibility of CGI manipulation, if we go on the notion that the video has captured the mouse's spirt after it's death, we have something of interest here. I once saw an aparition at my mother's nursing home, a white vaporus light like the one see departing the mouse. I found out later that a lady down the hall had died around the time I saw this apparition. The ghostly apparition has often been mentioned but I don't recall a video of one actually leaving a body at death.I too have seen the white whisps of paranormal "smoke". But they usually only happen in incredibly dense concentration of "influence fields".

You can see them in living people if you collect a persons influence field into a dense spot and then release the dense mass. I did this to my Mother a very long time ago when trying to relieve some of the pain she had from a headache. I collected the influence just below her skull cap because her field was clogged up and was circulating less efficiently than normal. (I admit, stupid of me to to do it at the time)

When I successfully pulled the accumulation of living influence out from the top of her skull it made an odd anomaly appear above her head for a short moment. Some kind of white smoke-like phenomena. What is odd about it is that despite it looking like smoke, it move very quickly through the air. I saw it with my normal eyesight. The anomaly also tracked across the same trajectory at an ESP level.

So I put 1 and 1 together and realized that dense influence causes paranormal anomalies. Even when it comes from a living thing.

The only side effect she suffered (I am lucky) was a visual blackout for a brief second and some numbness for about the same duration.

----------------------------

I have seen the paranormal "smoke" somewhere else before, but at the moment it escapes me. I had three little newborn pups die on me in the begining of this month.

The first was still born, I examined it carefully and noticed that when I examined it with my residual abilities that are still left, that some of the cells in the interior of the body were still alive but there was almost no sense of life in the skull area. No whisps of smoke were seen. Probably died in the womb hours earlier.

The second one died suddenly during one night weeks later. By the time we noticed it had been at least a few hours and the pup was already stiff. That one, (quite a loved one for it's personality) didn't have any influence signature. The residuals were barely at all noticeable. I couldn't register any consciousness. Poor pup.

The third one died suddenly while in my sisters hands. I noticed on an ESP level it stopped breathing and it's heart stopped about 30 seconds after that. The signature that it had in its little body started to fade out as soon as I noticed the lack of an normal cycle from across the room. Again no white paranormal smoke. But I have a good idea now of what people mean when they say they see someones light go out in the eyes. Even with my reduced ability I can still sense when the pattern of a living thing is no longer present and exactly when it dies and is no longer present.

------------------------

It is my (unfortunate) understanding that when something dies the death leads to the disappearance of it's influence field within seconds. A residual charge is left in some cases and some cells continue to register as "living cells" but a wider organized system of consciousness of influence circulation goes absent. Almost all of the organized field goes "up" as it dies but I couldn't track it beyond the immediate confines leaving the body this time. My psychic ability is too insensitive and no longer functioning properly. I don't care to use it anymore except for emergencies.

I think the paranormal "smoke" is visible to the naked eye only when it is in the form of "dense" influence. It moves faster than any chemical smoke can without losing it's apparent shape. Doesn't appear to be affected by air currents. (best guess from brief appearances)

I also believe that the less dense form of influence...probably before it appears as white smoke...probably...is an invisible mass that you can put your hand through and feel a distinct difference in pressure. (physically with the hand)

Some static or electrical discharges occur if you stick you hand or arm through a dense mass of influence that isn't visible as white smoke but is "slightly less dense". (I assume this from limited experience...I might be wrong on the continuum of what it manifests as at certain concentrations.)

=====================

I hope it was helpful.

And that phenomena around the mouse at 40 seconds look and behaves just about right. It really does move that fast.

I am inclined to assume it is accurate from the characteristics seen in the video. Poor mouse.

[calikid]

Assuming no CGI it would be helpful, from a scientific research perspective, to know a few details about the environment. Like relative humidity, ambient temperature, dew point, etc.
As we all know, mammals are warm blooded creatures that self regulate our temperature.
Upon death, the body grows "cold".
Would not be impossible for a "fog" to occur when/if the dropping temperature hit the dew point.

[majicbar]

Assuming no CGI it would be helpful, from a scientific research perspective, to know a few details about the environment. Like relative humidity, ambient temperature, dew point, etc.
As we all know, mammals are warm blooded creatures that self regulate our temperature.
Upon death, the body grows "cold".
Would not be impossible for a "fog" to occur when/if the dropping temperature hit the dew point.The body grows cold by dissipating heat, which would travel upwards but it would raise ambient temperature of the air above the body, creating dryer warmer air, not colder more moist air. So yes it would be "impossible"; clearly you meant just, 'possible': double negative rule.

French experiments were done at the end of the 1800's as to weight loss of a body at death, the accounted for all these factors and found slight weight loss upon death, but no change to the air at all.

[calikid]

The body grows cold by dissipating heat, which would travel upwards but it would raise ambient temperature of the air above the body, creating dryer warmer air, not colder more moist air. So yes it would be "impossible"; clearly you meant just, 'possible': double negative rule.

French experiments were done at the end of the 1800's as to weight loss of a body at death, the accounted for all these factors and found slight weight loss upon death, but no change to the air at all.

If the corpse is no longer generating heat, heat radiation would cease very quickly.
Replaced by a drop in temperature.
"Fog" is just a hypothetical, IMHO more likely than a spirit photo.

BTW, how much does a soul weigh, according to those researchers you mentioned?

That test was performed in the 19th century. Anything more recent?

Double negative.
I plead 430am, first cup of coffee syndrome. Sorry if I confused you. Thanks for the grammar check. :D

[lycaeus]

We're conditioned to always seek 'hard, cold, stiff' things as evidence for something being true, preferably done by certified scientists in a government lab to 'verify' the credibility of some aspect of reality. Everyone touts scientific studies as such a high form of truth...

But to me, just as important as scientific studies, and pictures, and videos, and 'hard' evidence, would be actually listening to the experiences of others. We put too much attention on hard evidence, when we should be putting more effort into learning how to communicate with each other, how to detect lies, how to detect sincerity, how to raise our perceptive levels to assess someone's authenticity, so we can take into account their experiences of what they're saying because we could learn a lot that way. The UFO field is a huge example. Tons of people are telling you what's going on, and most people just sit back, all egotistical, complaining they don't have hard evidence.. and even if they were paralyzed on a cold metal table, with demonic cyborgs stabbing them with needles, they'd probably still think that's not enough evidence for them lol..

So a video like this of the mouse, is just as valuable a piece of evidence as someone's story of saying they've seen something similar whether they have it on video or not.

[Edward]

We're conditioned to always seek 'hard, cold, stiff' things as evidence for something being true, preferably done by certified scientists in a government lab to 'verify' the credibility of some aspect of reality. Everyone touts scientific studies as such a high form of truth...

But to me, just as important as scientific studies, and pictures, and videos, and 'hard' evidence, would be actually listening to the experiences of others. We put too much attention on hard evidence, when we should be putting more effort into learning how to communicate with each other, how to detect lies, how to detect sincerity, how to raise our perceptive levels to assess someone's authenticity, so we can take into account their experiences of what they're saying because we could learn a lot that way. The UFO field is a huge example. Tons of people are telling you what's going on, and most people just sit back, all egotistical, complaining they don't have hard evidence.. and even if they were paralyzed on a cold metal table, with demonic cyborgs stabbing them with needles, they'd probably still think that's not enough evidence for them lol..

So a video like this of the mouse, is just as valuable a piece of evidence as someone's story of saying they've seen something similar whether they have it on video or not.


Since I've moved out to the land of Area 51 and S4 and who knows what else underneath the high desert and mountains. I've been keeping busy these days. Today Im actually off and not sleeping through it, LOL.

Lycaeus, brings up and highlights a very important point and fact. Something all of us should not lose sight of. It's just not in the UFO field or the paranormal, or the spiritual(some would say the paranormal and spiritual is one in the same but I digress), it's in everything we do basically. It seems we are "programmed"(think television and popular media here and I'm not just talking recently either) to what to believe, who to trust and what to think. When in fact we should be trusting ourselves, and each other to the sincerity and honesty of what people are reporting and experiencing. Is everyone honest? No, but Like Lycaeus has said we need to learn to differentiate between those who are honest and those are are deceitful and that doesn't always come with a scientific bow attached to it. Is it wrong to be scientific about things? Heck no. It's a very valuable tool, but science is not the end all and be all of what can determine or help in the decision making of what is possible. That's where You, Me, Lycaeus and everyone else comes in. We got to start trusting ourselves and each other or it will just keep in hive mind mentality where nothing else can happen or exist with out the approved consent of power figures and authority figures. Look to yourselves people and to each other and see what makes senses to YOU.

Thank you Lycaeus.


Edward

[Fore]

You could probably recreate the paranormal "smoke" phenomena if you were willing to take some risks.

If you are even mildly psychic you would have to pass through a series of milestones to concentrate influence at a focal point to a level where it is visible as a form of optical phenomena.

If you start from a focal point around the hand (in the form of a PSI ball). The normal psychic (without a keen sense of ESP perception) should feel the first milestone as a very soft (1 to 100 scale) 3 or 4 "pressure". It would feel like the sensation of a very slight tugging towards the center of the palm. But if the person doing it lacks the perception of ESP they would need to move the center from being offset to their palm to being something that intersects the tissue of the hand and wrist. (not recommended)

This is so that they could keep tabs on the building concentration from a purely physical perspective/observation.

----------------

A gradually increasing concentration of influence gathering at the lower extremity would feel as if all the blood would start to flow against arterial pressure. The hand would start to get increasingly hot as the blood pools and the veins quickly more pronounced. It will look like as if you had constricted blood flow except nothing (physical) is preventing blood from returning up the arm. Your hand should turn different shades and look greener than usual.

Again, increasing the concentration even more than this, and the area from your wrist to the tip of your fingers would start to swell to the point of creating pain. Soon after passing this threshold you'd have to learn how to isolate and separate the telekinetic side effects from the pooling of influence. Easier said than done.

If you were successful, (I am going to skip that point), your hand would feel like it had a form of invisible extra mass pressing down on it. At this point it is not yet visible to the naked eye. If you hold a battery in your hand you would feel the unsettling charge inside of it. It would also drain quickly due to other side effects similar to telekinetic effects. At this point you wouldn't be able to put your hands near most electronics without causing electrical spikes and drops.

------------

Going further with even higher concentrations of influence, you would start to get near a very unsafe threshold where your hand and wrist would likely be physically damaged internally. You mind would trigger a knowing sensation that your hand is going to be in distress as the concentration continues to build.

Anything can happen from the lightest effects of seeing living tissue moving around on the inside of the hand, to less benign side effects as your hand feeling a strange [alarming] gripping sensation of an invisible air clamping and pressing down unto it. Usually that would break anyone concentration as it would be a significant threshold you wouldn't want to come near to passing as a threshold.

Strange effects could be expected from bleeding and hemorrhaging below the skins surface to sudden static and electrical discharges in the invisible air around the hand. You'd also probably have permanent nerve damage in your hand and numbness.

-----------

A little more concentration than this and you'd likely start to generate the "white paranormal smoke".

=======================

This is all assuming you didn't fall asleep at about the second or third stage or have a heart attack from abnormal clotting from stagnant blood pooling in your hand.

The ideal is to use External Field Manipulation and an external focal point for the effects outside the periphery of the body. (And ESP perception would be a necessary trait at that point)

Using EFM techniques you could pretty much skip to the second or third milestone without much effort. But you would also end up generating a wide range of influence noise in the physical properties of the room around you.

(Electrical disturbances for example like an ET or a paranormal)
(Temperature anomalies or mishaps like a paranormal)
(Part of your non-physical presence would be like a persistent quantum flux that isn't so random: See random number generators in psychic experiments)

======================

If the video isn't manipulated, I guess the mouse consciously struggled as it died. The concentrated agony and distress may have led to the concentrated anomaly.

Not unlike the rare paranormal uninvited guest who gets upset and tosses a tantrum. As long as they have enough influence they can generate protuberances in the influence code that defines physics.

[majicbar]

If the corpse is no longer generating heat, heat radiation would cease very quickly.
Replaced by a drop in temperature.
"Fog" is just a hypothetical, IMHO more likely than a spirit photo.

BTW, how much does a soul weigh, according to those researchers you mentioned?

That test was performed in the 19th century. Anything more recent?

Double negative.
I plead 430am, first cup of coffee syndrome. Sorry if I confused you. Thanks for the grammar check. :D

I study atmospheric effects and I have to say there is little that might cause such a momentary vapor to form, except a possible energy flux that might tip a high humidity airmass without any ambient temperature change involved. The energy involved would have to be quite high but not so much so that would cause an audible snap or micro sonic boom. The most likely cause would be that the energy flux causes the mocules in the air to vibrate causing the electrons to undergo orbital change and thus light emission.

The studies in Boston were in the range of an three quarters of an ounce. This was done with a hospital bed on a balance scale. If you do the math, E=mc^, that would be complete energy conversion, that is an enormous amount of energy over a very short period of time. Perhaps most of the energy might not even be on this universal plane, it might be a mere shadow of the total energy involved.

No more recent experiments have been noted as far as I can remember.

[majicbar]

I study atmospheric effects and I have to say there is little that might cause such a momentary vapor to form, except a possible energy flux that might tip a high humidity airmass without any ambient temperature change involved. The energy involved would have to be quite high but not so much so that would cause an audible snap or micro sonic boom. The most likely cause would be that the energy flux causes the mocules in the air to vibrate causing the electrons to undergo orbital change and thus light emission.

The studies in Boston were in the range of an three quarters of an ounce. This was done with a hospital bed on a balance scale. If you do the math, E=mc^, that would be complete energy conversion, that is an enormous amount of energy over a very short period of time. Perhaps most of the energy might not even be on this universal plane, it might be a mere shadow of the total energy involved.

No more recent experiments have been noted as far as I can remember.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)

Three quarters of an ounce or about 21 grams.

[calikid]

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)

Three quarters of an ounce or about 21 grams.

And this is what you think we are seeing in the video?

Per your earlier post (http://www.theoutpostforum.com/tof/showthread.php?1865-Do-all-mice-go-to-heaven&p=36917&viewfull=1#post36917):
"I believe the point of the video is the spirit plasma seen to depart the mouse at 41 - 42 seconds...

Do you entertain any other more prosaic theory (beyond "CGI")?

[lycaeus]

The odd thing about this video is the location of the ball of light, which is the mouse's soul. It appears not in the centre of his body, but in front of his head, and maybe a bit to the side. This positioning of the soul at it's departure seems counterintuitive. If I were to use animation to make a counterfeit video of this phenomena, which is reported by tons of credible witnesses, I would make the ball of light appear more centred, nearer to the mouse's chest cavity than in front of him. I'd probably have it appear right in his centre-torso, and maybe have it shoot more straight-upwards rather than on that angled direction we see. That makes me think it's more likely to be real.

[majicbar]

The odd thing about this video is the location of the ball of light, which is the mouse's soul. It appears not in the centre of his body, but in front of his head, and maybe a bit to the side. This positioning of the soul at it's departure seems counterintuitive. If I were to use animation to make a counterfeit video of this phenomena, which is reported by tons of credible witnesses, I would make the ball of light appear more centred, nearer to the mouse's chest cavity than in front of him. I'd probably have it appear right in his centre-torso, and maybe have it shoot more straight-upwards rather than on that angled direction we see. That makes me think it's more likely to be real.
From what I've read the soul is larger than the physical body, aligned to the chakras from the heart to the pinal gland in the brain. This would not match what is seen on the video but upon the condition of death the spirt soul might compact, and again this spirit soul may exist on multiple dimensions and we percieve only a very limited portion of it's greater existence. So what we see and measure as a soul on our plane of existence does not have an absolute nature with which we can evaluate it's reality.

[lycaeus]

Perhaps the struggle and agony caused the mouse's influence field to concentrate into a smaller ball, which became concentrated enough to have an effect on our visible light spectrum, like how Fore explained, if I understood what he was saying basically, I think.

[majicbar]

Perhaps the struggle and agony caused the mouse's influence field to concentrate into a smaller ball, which became concentrated enough to have an effect on our visible light spectrum, like how Fore explained, if I understood what he was saying basically, I think.
What if the spirit soul was in the 'tunnel' being conveyed to heaven and it were like a wormhole, it might be very small. In out of body experience it has been reported that a silver thread or rope connects the traveler to the soul tied to the living body, maybe there is a connection between the phenomena and death severs the connection to the body.

[lycaeus]

Good point, it could be in the tunnel. And it might not I don't know. But the shape of a circle or sphere makes a lot of sense, because that's the most efficient use of space. If it was a square or triangle, I'd naturally think it's fake for some reason. If it was a semi-transparent ghost of the mouse, with the outlines and features of the mouse's body I'd also be more suspicious of that, rather than some more amorphous, abstract blob. I think abstract blob and circle I' would think are more likely to be real.

[Fore]

Perhaps the struggle and agony caused the mouse's influence field to concentrate into a smaller ball, which became concentrated enough to have an effect on our visible light spectrum, like how Fore explained, if I understood what he was saying basically, I think.I think post #15 by majicbar is the most plausible explanation.

The flux itself was probably caused by the concentration of influence. (the catalyst of the physical anomaly?)


"So what we see and measure as a soul on our plane of existence does not have an absolute nature with which we can evaluate it's reality." - Posted by Majicbar in post #19 is what I also think.

When you see the "paranormal smoke" it is usually very brief. You'll notice though that despite the looks of smoke, it doesn't behave like any actual smoke.

That is why I refer to it as a concentrated anomaly. The thing you see as "smoke" is just physics behaving abnormally due to the concentration of influence in one spot. The flux itself occurs on several different layers of what you and I see as reality. (In other words, paranormal phenomena)

Your physical eyes see the "paranormal smoke" but there is more that you don't see within different layers.

===================

Sort of like a 4D cube looking all odd when seen in a 3D universe. Of course, that is a [really] bad analogy but you get the rough idea.

[Fore]

I should also mention that influence layer that defines physical reality has a very strong tendency to normalize. The factors are many and varied.

That is why when some entity expends influence the normalizing effect tends to dissipate the abnormal concentration. The only way ET and other paranormal types can temporarily maintain the manifestation of an anomaly is by using the "influence centers". (In majicbar lingo, it is the chakra)

Those special (normally invisible) structures are what actually induces psychic activity and the paranormal / supernatural effects seen and recorded by scientist. A living (and sometimes dead entity) can turn random side-effects into structured and ordered effects.

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Most higher forms of life tend to have more significant structures and (not surprisingly) these structures cause "noise" in the physical properties of our reality. "Structured noise" = psychic activity = "structured flux"

Something dying slowly, like that poor rat, just probably generated a focal point of influence. Reflex more than intended. The camera simply picked up the anomaly.

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Lower life forms like you and me, we generate "noise" when we are upset/excited (or for that mattered are murdered!). Due to the extremely weak fields we generate with our non-physical structures those disturbances might be as weak as "a palpable invisible sensation" at a murder scene.

But if you encounter a higher life form, you shouldn't be too surprised if you see their inherent influence structures generating different kinds (of magnitude and scale) of noise from their invisible influence structures. Things like electrical disturbances (ET level), ambient light and temperature anomalies (paranormals), or structured appendages that are not physical. (UT level)

==================

When you think right now, and you change directions in your thoughts, that is your influence structures at work. (and your spiritual components acting upon your influence structures) Subtle, but palpable. That is what us human beings are able to handle with the scale and scope of our default settings with our invisible influence structures.

Anyway, that is what I think and/or have seen.