View Full Version : The Big Debate
The debate...
Interesting that there was only one woman on the lectern and she turned out to be the only one with any balls. Michelle decked that jowly ogre, Newt, with a right hook. She called him a hypocritical influence peddler while the rest of the klowns stood there in total bemusement. The Newt's retort was to dismiss her as a silly woman who can't get her facts straight. This brash and crazy broad won the debate hands down. Good on her.
Ron was at his squeaky best when it came to Leviathan's war mongering ways. That won't sell to the Reptilicams though. He's now officially dead. Suicide by truth.
Romney? Smooth and transparently full of ****. Stick a fork in him. A deadman walking- all the way to victory.
The douchebag from Pennsylvania? He made the point for the hundredth time that he hates gays. That may sell to the Reptilican faithful. He'll finish third in the caucuses behind the Mitt and the Michelle. Ron a close fourth followed by Boss Hogg and the other Mormon.
Conclusion: What a bunch of A-holes. Vote for Barack.
'ass' is profanity? Who are you the school marm from Dumdown Elementary?
rdunk
12-16-2011, 03:21 PM
The debate...
Interesting that there was only one woman on the lectern and she turned out to be the only one with any balls. Michelle decked that jowly ogre, Newt, with a right hook. She called him a hypocritical influence peddler while the rest of the klowns stood there in total bemusement. The Newt's retort was to dismiss her as a silly woman who can't get her facts straight. This brash and crazy broad won the debate hands down. Good on her.
Ron was at his squeaky best when it came to Leviathan's war mongering ways. That won't sell to the Reptilicams though. He's now officially dead. Suicide by truth.
Romney? Smooth and transparently full of ****. Stick a fork in him. A deadman walking- all the way to victory.
The douchebag from Pennsylvania? He made the point for the hundredth time that he hates gays. That may sell to the Reptilican faithful. He'll finish third in the caucuses behind the Mitt and the Michelle. Ron a close fourth followed by Boss Hogg and the other Mormon.
Conclusion: What a bunch of assholes. Vote for Barack.
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Well now noot, what do you really think! :) One point I would make, is...............the explicit "adjective" you used to sum up your remarks about all of the Republican candidates, is just the simplest of starting points to describe the present POTUS. And describing our POTUS completely is near impossible. Just suffice it to say, he is an outright liar to all Americans, and he is doing everything possible to take this country down the road to a Marxist Socialistic dictatorship. And dictatorship in my words means taking the governance out of the hands of the people, and placing it in the hands of specially handpicked (by the POTUS) "Czarists", who really answer to no one but the POTUS. And while at the same time. spending this country into near oblivion, to the point that to have anything for most people, will mean the government is our Keeper.
Is that what you want noot?? If it is, then you go right ahead and vote for him, as that voting process is what this country is all about. But I say first think about your life for the future, and think about the future lives of any children you might have, and grandchildren, because everyone will have to live with the results of this coming next POTUS election. And this current POTUS has put this country on notice, so to speak, by the way he has performed during this first term. It is one thing to be fooled into electing him, for the first term, but shame on any real American who would even think about voting for him for a second term, if they really know him, and have seen his actions.
Of course, it is understood that many people only get their information from the "government controlled" mainstream media, so, in that situation, for them, ignorance is bliss anyway!! The next eleven months will be interesting, even without consideration of the 2012 EOD's/Mayan calendar stuff. :biggrin2:
What do I want? I want confiscation of excessive wealth and a redistribution to the poor. I want rich men to pass through the eyes of needles to trim the fat. I want a quadrupling of the death tax. Let the dead serve the living. I want a halving of the war budget and a closing of the all foreign military bases. I want a free education through the 16th grade. I want Donald Trump to mow my lawn. I want the peace corps to replace the marine corps. I want the Palistinians to have their own state. I want Bush, Chaney and Rummy to be tried by a tribunal in Iraq and hanged. I want corporate thieves and banksters to share a dormitory with Bernie Madoff. I want a general strike and a boycott of all useless consumption. I want strong laws that will ensure the preservation of the planet and certain justice for the despoilers. I want the poor in spirit and the makers of peace to be blessed and for the meek to inherit the world.
That's about it. You?
rdunk
12-16-2011, 03:54 PM
What do I want? I want confiscation of excessive wealth and a redistribution to the poor. I want rich men to pass through the eyes of needles to trim the fat. I want a quadrupling of the death tax. Let the dead serve the living. I want a halving of the war budget and a closing of the all foreign military bases. I want a free education through the 16th grade. I want Donald Trump to mow my lawn. I want the peace corps to replace the marine corps. I want the Palistinians to have their own state. I want Bush, Chaney and Rummy to be tried by a tribunal in Iraq and hanged. I want corporate thieves and banksters to share a dormitory with Bernie Madoff. I want a general strike and a boycott of all useless consumption. I want strong laws that will ensure the preservation of the planet and certain justice for the despoilers. I want the poor in spirit and the makers of peace to be blessed and for the meek to inherit the world.
That's about it. You?
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Then noot, your quickest road to personal happiness will be for you to move someplace like Cuba. Because you are way off base for living in a "free country", like the USA!!
I do believe the current POTUS could get us to where you want to be, with another two or three terms, but that will take several years. Just move on the Cuba, and start enjoying the "good-life" there now. Of course, you might just want to take along a "sack lunch", just in case you might get hungry!
Also, go ahead a leave a forwarding address for the government check you must be receiving now! However, I don't know whether they will send those out of country or not!! Have a good trip, and please tell Fidel we said hi!!!!! :thumbup:
All tongue-in-cheek, of course!!
Ah, the joys of political discourse! Keep it civil, people. Big Brother is watching. :yikes:
Ah, the joys of political discourse! Keep it civil, people. Big Brother is watching. :yikes:Hahahahaha. There's no law against being a loaves and fishes Commie. Yet.
rdunk
12-16-2011, 06:21 PM
One thing about this subject noot, if this country would become something similar to what you suggest, then we can all say "bye bye" to "free speech forums" like this one. For those born into such a society, who would have never known any different, it might not be so bad. But for those of us who lived most of our lives in a "rights of the people come first" society, life in your ideal would be pretty hard to live with, where government is in charge of every aspect of one's life, telling us always what to do and to not do. Sad! Sad! :nono:
If you truly believe that we live in a society where the 'rights of the people come first' you are either in denial or an idiot. I had already surmised that but thanks for the authentication. And further, if you think this is a "free speech forum" I suggest you withhold judgement until this free speecher is summarily banned. It won't be long.
Dragonfire
12-16-2011, 07:49 PM
If you truly believe that we live in a society where the 'rights of the people come first' you are either in denial or an idiot. I had already surmised that but thanks for the authentication. And further, if you think this is a "free speech forum" I suggest you withhold judgement until this free speecher is summarily banned. It won't be long.
Only because you don't like playing by the rules. ;) :rolleyes:
I sometimes think you are trying for a record of the most forums to be Banned from.
newyorklily
12-16-2011, 08:02 PM
If you truly believe that we live in a society where the 'rights of the people come first' you are either in denial or an idiot. I had already surmised that but thanks for the authentication. And further, if you think this is a "free speech forum" I suggest you withhold judgement until this free speecher is summarily banned. It won't be long.
"Free speech" is for everyone, not just those with the biggest and foulest mouths.
It is based on the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". If a person is a masochist then that will be how they treat others as well. I'm sure there are many forums on the web where it is perfectly fine to hurt and abuse others with the written word and where homage is given to those with diarrhea of the mouth. The OutPost is not one of them. Respect is given here and it is expected in return. If the Golden Rule is followed with respect in mind, then the poster will have a long and enjoyable time here. That is when Free Speech rules!
murmur
12-16-2011, 09:16 PM
People are going to tire of endless wars.
Israel can take care of itself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhbGL3F8r4c
Redbone
12-16-2011, 10:00 PM
What do I want? I want confiscation of excessive wealth and a redistribution to the poor. I want rich men to pass through the eyes of needles to trim the fat. I want a quadrupling of the death tax. Let the dead serve the living. I want a halving of the war budget and a closing of the all foreign military bases. I want a free education through the 16th grade. I want Donald Trump to mow my lawn. I want the peace corps to replace the marine corps. I want the Palistinians to have their own state. I want Bush, Chaney and Rummy to be tried by a tribunal in Iraq and hanged. I want corporate thieves and banksters to share a dormitory with Bernie Madoff. I want a general strike and a boycott of all useless consumption. I want strong laws that will ensure the preservation of the planet and certain justice for the despoilers. I want the poor in spirit and the makers of peace to be blessed and for the meek to inherit the world.
That's about it. You?
Neither of my parents ever finished school. They raised five kids in a modest home. I was taught never to take anything that did not belong to me and be thankful for what I had. If I saw something that I wanted, I worked hard and saved. If one job wasn't enough, I took a second. My family could not afford to send me to college, so I joined the Navy. Did my fours years, got out, got a full time job and went to night school. GI Bill paid for part of my schooling and I paid for the rest.
I got married, raised three kids, taught them to never take anything that did not belong to them, work hard to achieve your dreams. All three are college grads.
I have a 6 year old grandson.......quess what his dad is teaching him?
It is not that hard. Takes some effort, a lot of hard work, but it is achievable.
It is called the American dream.......The dream is not dead.........just the dreamers!
It died the minute we started asking for handouts!
rdunk
12-16-2011, 10:40 PM
Redbone, you said a really lot, in just a few words. You just covered it in an excellent way. So many of us have been there and done that, just as with you and your family. I am not sure when the term "American dream" started, or who started it. But, if there were times when it wasn't vocalized, we just knew going beyond high school cost extra, and not everyone could afford it. And that was ok, because a significant percentage of jobs do not require a college degree. While some jobs do require specialized training, many jobs are OJT jobs. And that (OJT) would be On the Job Training, for younger folks here who haven't been introduced to that yet.
We started to work, always with an eye to the future, expecting to earn advancement in whatever our endeavors were/are. "Handouts" to seniors and handicapped is one thing. Continuing handouts to employable citizens and alien immigrants must come to a stop, in addition to a significant reduction to US foreign aid, especially to our "non friend" countries.
I believe the American Dream can be revived, but it is going to take a complete reversal of some of the actions implemented by the current administration, as well as reversing some actions of prior administrations.
LET'S JUST DO IT! :thumbup:
The American dream has 300,000,000 variations. That's what the pursuit of happiness is all about. My own dream is of a nation and a world that lives by the principles of the Beatitudes. Such a dream precludes and eclipses the petty greed of capitalism in deference to the grand greed of common ownership. It's all about Loaves and Fishes in my dream. You probably pay it lip service on Sunday while inviting those who practice it to leave the country on Monday. Such is life.
People are going to tire of endless wars.
Israel can take care of itself
I agree. But the real problem is the shallow tenor of American debate on this issue- and on all issues. You see that ogre of categorical Americanism right here in this thread. That's the idol that Ron is trying to smash. It may be impossible since Americananity has become a religion. You know how difficult it is to overcome zealotry and the lust for cheap toys...
murmur
12-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Nothing worthwhile is easy
It's hard in fact.
Nothing worthwhile is easy
It's hard in fact.
This applies in particular to the breaking of idols of the mind. It's always scary to break with the herd.
murmur
12-17-2011, 01:36 PM
This applies in particular to the breaking of idols of the mind. It's always scary to break with the herd.
Like the Obama herd?
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 02:49 PM
A government FOR the people, by the people.....................yea right:rolleyes:
Politicians are lawyers, figure it out:p
SolFlickan
12-17-2011, 02:58 PM
A government FOR the people, by the people.....................yea right:rolleyes:
It is a matter of voting decent people into power. Is this really not possible in the US? You guys have just given up as voters and citizens?
That's sad.
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Not given up, it's just the choices have been radically reduced. I still cast my vote, but I have no party lines (independent). I try to vote for the best candidate that I feel would be able to do the best job.
I don't alway's get what I want.
the secret is to always write in yourself.
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 03:46 PM
the secret is to always write in yourself.
I think I'll write YOU in next time. Should be very interesting :thumbup: :das
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 03:49 PM
By the way, which moniker would you like me to use?
I like General Styker, just has that sound ;)
But CartoonSyndicate may work (Big Business Sound) :lmao:
Just shaddup and vote already.
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 04:16 PM
Just shaddup and vote already.
:lmao:
Dragonfire
12-17-2011, 04:45 PM
Rememeber when out-of-towners just sold you snake oil and ran, instead of sticking around to run for congress
Hunter Thompson used to say they all should be castrated so the genes couldn't be passed on. :biggrin2:
murmur
12-17-2011, 05:51 PM
European Disunion Blog (http://europeandisunion.blogspot.com/).
Don't want endless foreign wars, but do want a strong military for defense? Vote Ron Paul. Do want bankers to be subjected to greater scrutiny and accountability? Vote Ron Paul. Don't want the government to tow the line of corporate interests? Vote Ron Paul. Do want to be allowed to say and think what you will - even do what you will - provided that it does not harm or infringe upon the rights of others? Vote Ron Paul.
Ron Paul is the only candidate who does not accept donations from big business - his campaign is funded entirely by individuals. Yet it forms policy from a conservative outlook: pragmatic, rather than idealistic, with any reforms carefully considered before implementation, with a strict doctrine of fiscal prudence to boot. In short, it is the perfect blend for individualistic yet reasoned and cash-strapped America.
rdunk
12-18-2011, 03:08 AM
This applies in particular to the breaking of idols of the mind. It's always scary to break with the herd.
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Not so, when the herd one is in is headed for the cliff! There is nothing anywhere that says "the captain must go down with the herd!!! :yikes:
rdunk
12-18-2011, 03:17 AM
Not given up, it's just the choices have been radically reduced. I still cast my vote, but I have no party lines (independent). I try to vote for the best candidate that I feel would be able to do the best job.
I don't alway's get what I want.
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Dragonfire, that is the way to go, most of the time. I am right with you on voting for the best person. But, as is often the case, we must also give consideration to voting for our most favorite candidate, that has a real chance of being in the final, or winning the final. A vote that satisfies our self-esteem, but helps the opposition win, is not a smart vote.
Certainly just my opinion! :)
Redbone
12-19-2011, 01:21 PM
It's all about Loaves and Fishes in my dream. You probably pay it lip service on Sunday while inviting those who practice it to leave the country on Monday. Such is life.
I am Cherokee, we are 'The First People!' We were here thousands of years before you! We would like you all to please leave our Country!
Loaves and Fishes? How is it the Loaves and Fishes multiplied? It is simply because most put more into the basket than they took out!
'Take from the Earth no more than you need, give back to Her all that you can.'
I am Cherokee, we are 'The First People!' We were here thousands of years before you! We would like you all to please leave our Country!I hear ya.
rdunk
12-19-2011, 07:09 PM
I am Cherokee, we are 'The First People!' We were here thousands of years before you! We would like you all to please leave our Country!
Loaves and Fishes? How is it the Loaves and Fishes multiplied? It is simply because most put more into the basket than they took out!
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Hello Redbone! I understand how you might feel relative to your Cherokee heritage. My great grandparents, on one side, had a pretty good amount of Cherokee blood too, but I never knew how much. Several of their children had dark hair and darker skin. but my grandmother did not.
In my opinion, your request for all others to leave the country is not the right answer for you, nor for anyone else. Are you wanting to go back to the tee-pees, and buffalo hunting of your people, that pretty much lived the same way for that "thousands of years" you mentioned?? Are you wanting all of the people that you asked to leave to also take all/all of the technology with them??
Nope, there are probably no "right actions" that can undo the "so many man against man/indian" acts and events in all of history. It is up to all of us to work together to ensure that the heritage we leave is as good, or even better, than the one we received at the beginning of "our lives". We can't undo the past, but the present will not be pleasant, if we live for the past, rather than for reaching out, with our families, for the future.
Redbone
12-19-2011, 07:45 PM
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Hello Redbone! I understand how you might feel relative to your Cherokee heritage. My great grandparents, on one side, had a pretty good amount of Cherokee blood too, but I never knew how much. Several of their children had dark hair and darker skin. but my grandmother did not.
In my opinion, your request for all others to leave the country is not the right answer for you, nor for anyone else. Are you wanting to go back to the tee-pees, and buffalo hunting of your people, that pretty much lived the same way for that "thousands of years" you mentioned?? Are you wanting all of the people that you asked to leave to also take all/all of the technology with them??
Nope, there are probably no "right actions" that can undo the "so many man against man/indian" acts and events in all of history. It is up to all of us to work together to ensure that the heritage we leave is as good, or even better, than the one we received at the beginning of "our lives". We can't undo the past, but the present will not be pleasant, if we live for the past, rather than for reaching out, with our families, for the future.
Hi rdunk,
My statement was rhetorical not literal. I all too well understand the implications of a mass exodus. Although the simplier 'Tee Pee' life would be a welcome change from my hectic '8 to 5' daily grind. Factually it would be more of a 'Longhouse' since the Cherokee were not nomadic. My ancestors were hunter/gatherers and excellent farmers before the time of the 'White Eyes!':biggrin2:
I think Redbone was being facetious but his point is well taken. All of the cherished technology consequent to the European invasion of the Americas is frivolous nonsense. It has brought the world genocide and slavery to both corporations and machines while bringing to the continent a vile despoliation of the land and no advancement in ethics and love.
'Consider the lillie's of the field, that they neither toil nor spin.' Consider altruism, love and compassion. Consider the balance on which we've been weighed and found wanting. The civilization that existed in the western world, the one found here by the Europeans 500 years ago, was indeed a higher one- one that was visciously and casually destroyed for no greater reason than greed and the futile pursuit of property and wealth.
murmur
12-19-2011, 08:37 PM
Ron Paul...it's possible!!!!
jeezizz. drive by RonPaul spam now! have you no shame??
norenrad
12-19-2011, 08:44 PM
Then noot, your quickest road to personal happiness will be for you to move someplace like Cuba. Because you are way off base for living in a "free country", like the USA!!
I'll second that evaluation. If you you want communism, there are plenty of other countries that offer it.
murmur
12-19-2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah....learned that from you..hahahahaha
I appreciate your erudite commentary. Well thought out, as always, Nonerad. But I've decided to decline your kind invitation to leave the country of my birth in deference to raising lots and lots of kids who recognize American futility and paucity of altruism and compassion- just as I do- and who will add a dollop of love and novelty to society. It's the best we can do for the world.
norenrad
12-19-2011, 08:59 PM
Speaking of American Indians, my grandmother is half Ottawa. She made sure we grew up knowing our ancestry.
Yeah....learned that from you..hahahahaha
Oh for crissakes. OK then. RON PAUL. IT'S POPSICLE! Happy now?
Speaking of American Indians, my grandmother is half Ottawa. She made sure we grew up knowing our ancestry.Excellent. They were a fine and proud nation and are sorely missed.
norenrad
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
I appreciate your erudite commentary. Well thought out, as always, Nonerad. But I've decided to decline your kind invitation to leave the country of my birth in deference to raising lots and lots of kids who recognize American futility and paucity of altruism and compassion- just as I do- and who will add a dollop of love and novelty to society. It's the best we can do for the world.
It must take some real stones to live somewhere you hate so much, I suppose felicitations are in order then.
Hate? I love this country dearly. Otherwise I wouldn't give a rat's patout in trying to make it better. I also love Denver and Tim Tebow.
rdunk
12-19-2011, 09:12 PM
My statement was rhetorical not literal. I all too well understand the implications of a mass exodus. Although the simplier 'Tee Pee' life would be a welcome change from my hectic '8 to 5' daily grind. Factually it would be more of a 'Longhouse' since the Cherokee were not nomadic. My ancestors were hunter/gatherers and excellent farmers before the time of the 'White Eyes!'
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Redbone, thanks for the additional comments. I did assume as much, but it is always hard to know.................. . One of your comments does bring up additional thoughts! The "simpler life" you mentioned, is something all of us can look back on, sometimes with envious thoughts, as we ply about in this hectic world. My own grandparents on both sides were farming families. They were great people, with each having a large number of kids. Yes, it seemed to be a very simple life for them, and likely was much the same for their ancestors.
But, "simple" doesn't = "easy". They were both on their farms until I was about 18 years old. I saw their "work". They were experts at what they did, but what they did was work very hard, from before daylight until dark or after. Always more things needed to be done, than time for doing them. Everyone in the family worked on the farm, except when school was in session. Work for the men, and work for the women. Cows, and milking, and churning, and chickens, and getting the eggs, and pigs, and annual slaughtering the pigs for meat, and planting and hoeing and harvesting the corn, cotton, hay, and wheat, and taking care of all of the equipment, planting and caring for the vegetable garden for food for the family, and on/on/on/on, and on.
Redbone, I would assume that the simple life of the Cherokee was much of the same, as for the "white eyes! :biggrin2: A simple way of life, but a life of really "hard work" also
All of us have a lot to be proud of, because of the hard work of our ancestors. The technical complications of life today would be difficult for our ancestors, but then also would the "simple lives" of our ancestors be very difficult for us today. "No air-conditioning"??? GET OUT OF HERE!!!!:yikes::yikes::yikes:
I've never had air conditioning. Any good?
norenrad
12-19-2011, 09:15 PM
I'm glad that you love your country, but more government power is not the answer. The real criminal we have to eject from our lives is those Temporary Work Force Agencies that are leeching off all hard working people. Once we get these leeches off our backs, we stand a chance at recovery.
Denver's cool, I live right next to the foothills.
"Temporary Work Force Agencies" ?
rdunk
12-19-2011, 09:22 PM
Castle Rock, Co is nice! I have a son/family who lives there!
norenrad
12-19-2011, 09:25 PM
"Temporary Work Force Agencies" ?
Temp Services
A place that offers work for half the pay-rate with no benefits, no vacation, so sick days... just crap work. There's your slave labor right there.
rdunk
12-19-2011, 09:25 PM
"Temporary Work Force Agencies" ?
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If I had said that, it would have meant "Agencies" that promote the use of "illegal immigrants"! :thumbdown::thumbdown:
Temp Services
A place that offers work for half the pay-rate with no benefits, no vacation, so sick days... just crap work. There's your slave labor right there.Is that the work you're doing these days?
Chris
12-19-2011, 09:30 PM
I think we are leaving the realm of debate and entering the land of insults.
Very simple - debate good; insults bad.
Carry on....
I think we are leaving the realm of debate and entering the land of insults.
Very simple - debate good; insults bad.
Carry on....
Where are the insults? I must be reading a different thread.
Chris
12-19-2011, 09:48 PM
Where are the insults? I must be reading a different thread.
Really???
Ah'm jus' sayin'........
Screw it. There's some juice flowing and that is always a good thing. I've been told to leave the country but I'm not insulted. Hell, I've been hearing that for the last 40 years. hahahaha
norenrad
12-19-2011, 10:06 PM
Is that the work you're doing these days?
My career field has been inundated by them. What used to be a decent job with good earnings has become a sweatshop for the underpaid and untrained. Many trained and educated technicians are forced into this frustrating option where lifestyle and camaraderie have digressed into poverty and backstabbing.
My career field has been inundated by them. What used to be a decent job with good earnings has become a sweatshop for the underpaid and untrained. Many trained and educated technicians are forced into this frustrating option where lifestyle and camaraderie have digressed into poverty and backstabbing.
I guess that's how corporations maximize profits, eh? Capital is, first of all, amoral. And any system that turns humans into commodities and fungible assets is unethical, rotten, at the core.
norenrad
12-19-2011, 11:07 PM
These companies need to suck it up and take ownership. Quit farming jobs out and passing on the responsibilities they should own. Right now, MillerCoors is paying $170.00 an hour for me to be on site. I get $17.00 of that after IBM and AT&T and BlackBox and Verigent get their cut... and I'm the one doing all the work. If MillerCoors can afford to pay out $170.00 an hour, I think they could very well afford to pay out $35.00-$40.00 dollars an hour and offer benefits. The problem is they don't want the responsibility for their workers after retirement, this is why we should all pay into individual retirement plans, keeping the politician's hands out of it.
Yeah, Coors sucks. Always did and always will. Their beer sucks too. What'd ya expect from a company founded by a guy named Adolf? hahahaha
Redbone
12-20-2011, 01:26 PM
These companies need to suck it up and take ownership. Quit farming jobs out and passing on the responsibilities they should own. Right now, MillerCoors is paying $170.00 an hour for me to be on site. I get $17.00 of that after IBM and AT&T and BlackBox and Verigent get their cut... and I'm the one doing all the work. If MillerCoors can afford to pay out $170.00 an hour, I think they could very well afford to pay out $35.00-$40.00 dollars an hour and offer benefits. The problem is they don't want the responsibility for their workers after retirement, this is why we should all pay into individual retirement plans, keeping the politician's hands out of it.
I was in the same situation with IBM. I was paid by a Temp Agency but worked at the IBM Campus at Research Triangle Park, NC. I made $33 an hour but had to pay 100% for my Health Benefits. The Temp agency did have a 401k with 3% making funds, but that was all they offered. I managed to hold out for eight years, but Big Blue is bad about laying off. I was lucky enough to land on my feet with a decent employee oriented company with good benefits. In fact there are several IBM'ers working were I am now.
In the case of IBM they would over hire as needed to complete certain projects, then lay off the excess. We jokingly called it the 'Revolving door policy.' Shame is you would never hear anything in the news, when this happened, because they did not have to report massive layoffs of Temps. Also Big Blue got State and Federal tax breaks, didn't have to pay Health and Retirement cost. Gotta Luv'em.
Redbone
12-20-2011, 01:36 PM
My statement was rhetorical not literal. I all too well understand the implications of a mass exodus. Although the simplier 'Tee Pee' life would be a welcome change from my hectic '8 to 5' daily grind. Factually it would be more of a 'Longhouse' since the Cherokee were not nomadic. My ancestors were hunter/gatherers and excellent farmers before the time of the 'White Eyes!'
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Redbone, thanks for the additional comments. I did assume as much, but it is always hard to know.................. . One of your comments does bring up additional thoughts! The "simpler life" you mentioned, is something all of us can look back on, sometimes with envious thoughts, as we ply about in this hectic world. My own grandparents on both sides were farming families. They were great people, with each having a large number of kids. Yes, it seemed to be a very simple life for them, and likely was much the same for their ancestors.
But, "simple" doesn't = "easy". They were both on their farms until I was about 18 years old. I saw their "work". They were experts at what they did, but what they did was work very hard, from before daylight until dark or after. Always more things needed to be done, than time for doing them. Everyone in the family worked on the farm, except when school was in session. Work for the men, and work for the women. Cows, and milking, and churning, and chickens, and getting the eggs, and pigs, and annual slaughtering the pigs for meat, and planting and hoeing and harvesting the corn, cotton, hay, and wheat, and taking care of all of the equipment, planting and caring for the vegetable garden for food for the family, and on/on/on/on, and on.
Redbone, I would assume that the simple life of the Cherokee was much of the same, as for the "white eyes! :biggrin2: A simple way of life, but a life of really "hard work" also
All of us have a lot to be proud of, because of the hard work of our ancestors. The technical complications of life today would be difficult for our ancestors, but then also would the "simple lives" of our ancestors be very difficult for us today. "No air-conditioning"??? GET OUT OF HERE!!!!:yikes::yikes::yikes:
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976
Excellent, Redbone. But you're unfortunately talking to a brick wall.
rdunk
12-20-2011, 10:28 PM
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976
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Redbone, thanks for posting the quote from John Fire Lame Deer! That in brief tells a huge story of what can happen when two entirely different civilizations, by events, are brought together. We all can look back, and be saddened by the so many bad things that happened, over a lot of years, as the "white brothers" and Indians came together. I did look John Fire Lame Deer up, and found some good interesting additional details on him and his life. Seems he was a person of importance to a lot of people. Here is a link to a very short wiki bio for him. Of course, the link is for others, like me, who did not know of him!
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/John_Fire_Lame_Deer
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