Was it a bird? Was it a drone? Or was it something else?

[newyorklily]

Whatever it was, a corporate jet came very close to hitting it over Denver. Here is a video of "9News" that includes the radar for the time of the incident and communication between the cockpit and control tower.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/denver-ufo-near-miss-jet_n_1521934.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk1&pLid=161623

[Doc]

From The OUtPost Forum Facebook page, from Giuliano Marinkovic:

Thanks to Dennis K9VMY and ARUFON group for the lead.

http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQA1qGCLroxpyvW8&w=90&h=90&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com%2Fimages%2F89%2F50% 2F2%2Fassetpool%2Fimages%2F110221114035_02-21-11-9wtk.jpg (http://www.9news.com/news/article/268207/222/Mystery-object-nearly-causes-mid-air-collision)Mystery object nearly causes mid-air collision | 9news.com (http://www.9news.com/news/article/268207/222/Mystery-object-nearly-causes-mid-air-collision)
www.9news.com (http://www.9news.com)DENVER - The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating a mystery in the sky. A mysterious object flying over Denver nearly caused a mid-air collision Monday evening, 9Wants to Know has learned.

As far as investigators know, the mystery object did not show up on radar Monday.

Investigators believe this object, whatever it is, could pose a serious safety hazard to planes.

[newyorklily]

According to Audubon Magazine http://magblog.audubon.org/green-guru-how-high-do-migrating-birds-fly, birds usually fly at 5000 feet or less unless they are migrating. When they are migrating, they do so in flocks and fly in formation. This can be seen on radar.

The "experts" keep citing the plane that had to make an emergency landing in the Hudson River because geese flew into the engines. But what they neglect to say is that the geese make their home around the airport and were sucked into the engine shortly after takeoff, not at 8000 feet.

[CasperParks]

I am leaning toward a military or law enforcement drone.

[majicbar]

:dasMaybe the "Balloon Boy Dad" again, wait, I think that they moved.:das

[newyorklily]

I am leaning toward a military or law enforcement drone.

It's scary to think that the military could be flying drones in commercial air space that don't show up on radar. Drones are unmanned and use only computer programs. That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

[norenrad]

I'm leaning toward it being a drone as well. This comes at a time that TPTB decided on their own that it was lawful to fly these things where ever they pleased.

Something is brewing, why else would they require so much surveillance? I know... that's a broad question.

[norenrad]

The pilot suggested that this might have been a remote controlled vehicle and the only reason that I can think of why he thought that is because he didn't notice a cockpit or a standard cockpit. The shape of the object and its apparent movement would also give the impression that this was not a manned vehicle or a bird.

[newyorklily]

The FAA said that they had no unknown targets on the radar and they are still investigating the case. The local sherriff believes he has found the answer; a weather balloon.
http://www.9news.com/news/article/268287/207/Deputies-may-have-explanation-for-near-mid-air-collision

The FAA as not confirmed this. :rolleyes:

[norenrad]

That means that it's time for....

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e374/norenrad/AirforceIDChart.jpg

[Doc]

Spy Drone Almost Causes Mid Air Collision With Jet Over Denver (http://www.infowars.com/spy-drone-almost-causes-mid-air-collision-with-jet-over-denver/)










FAA investigating “extremely dangerous” incident
Steve Watson
Infowars.com
May 17, 2012

http://dronewarsuk.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/drone.jpg

A mystery object, thought to be a military or law enforcement drone, flying in controlled airspace over Denver almost caused a catastrophic mid air crash with a commercial jet Monday.
The pilot of the Cessna jet radioed air traffic controllers to warn them that “A remote controlled aircraft” had flown past his plane far too close for comfort.
“Something just went by the other way … About 20 to 30 seconds ago. It was like a large remote-controlled aircraft.” the pilot said in the transmission that was captured on the live air traffic audio website liveatc.net (http://www.liveatc.net/).

http://www.infowars.com/spy-drone-almost-causes-mid-air-collision-with-jet-over-denver/

[newyorklily]

They still don't ave any evidence and a drone should appear on radar. But, it is a good incident and arguement to get the government to put limits on drone permits.

[majicbar]

They still don't ave any evidence and a drone should appear on radar. But, it is a good incident and arguement to get the government to put limits on drone permits.

As was apparent during 9/11 the ability of the FAA to track a plane without a IFF transponder signal is at best spotty, in the mountains around Denver this would be even more problematical. The RPV's that are used by the military are somewhat stealthy, meaning that the transponder would be the only way of tracking some of these RPV's. If the item was a hobbyist's RPV it was civilian and not flying with a transponder and it might well be invible to FAA radar.

[newyorklily]

As was apparent during 9/11 the ability of the FAA to track a plane without a IFF transponder signal is at best spotty, in the mountains around Denver this would be even more problematical. The RPV's that are used by the military are somewhat stealthy, meaning that the transponder would be the only way of tracking some of these RPV's. If the item was a hobbyist's RPV it was civilian and not flying with a transponder and it might well be invible to FAA radar.

Birds can be seen on radar and they don't carry transponders. Are our drones made from (or painted with) something that will hide it from radar?

Also, if an airplane, (even a model airplane), is remote controlled, then it must be receiving a signal. What receives the signal in them, does it have an identifying signal of its own and can it be traced?

[CasperParks]

That means that it's time for....

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e374/norenrad/AirforceIDChart.jpg

I love that chart, very funny.

[Marvin]

That means that it's time for....

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e374/norenrad/AirforceIDChart.jpg



I love that chart, very funny.


It is my opinion the swamp gas was misidentified, I believe it is a (full of) hot air weather balloon. Just my opinion... but you are right, it is hysterical!


M

[newyorklily]

Here is a good article about drones in the US and who holds the permits to fly them. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134376/Is-drone-neighbourhood-Rise-killer-spy-planes-exposed-FAA-forced-reveal-63-launch-sites-U-S.html

A large number of those permits are held by colleges and universities.

[Doc]

Here is a good article about drones in the US and who holds the permits to fly them. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134376/Is-drone-neighbourhood-Rise-killer-spy-planes-exposed-FAA-forced-reveal-63-launch-sites-U-S.html

A large number of those permits are held by colleges and universities.

I think there is a smokescreen in place here and much more is going on with drones than we know. The conspiracy-minded folks will have a target-rich environment with this one! :cool:

[southerncross]

Conservative columnist, Charles Krauthammer, MD, PhD, stated 2 days ago that despite his conservative roots, regarding drones, he'd go total ACLU on the nation on this topic. He said they should not enter US airspace under any circumstances due to the potential for mishandling and violation of citizen privacy.
Think of it - it's on its way to observe a bank robber and on the way capture something that looks suspicious (2 people crouching near a house). Police swoop in and handcuff them - only to find out they were looking for a water line suspected of leaking under the house. Now wait a minute.....he's right. these things stand to make innocent people's lives a misery and we deserve to be able to sit on our property in privacy.

Krauthammer is right. The military has no jurisdiction policing US soil.

[newyorklily]

I think there is a smokescreen in place here and much more is going on with drones than we know. The conspiracy-minded folks will have a target-rich environment with this one! :cool:

Yes, Doc. I am also wondering, if it is a drone, will the FAA tell us that. Or will this be one of the times when the government uses the UFO meme to its own advantage. (If a drone is not identified as a drone, then technically, it is a UFO).

[majicbar]

Birds can be seen on radar and they don't carry transponders. Are our drones made from (or painted with) something that will hide it from radar?

Also, if an airplane, (even a model airplane), is remote controlled, then it must be receiving a signal. What receives the signal in them, does it have an identifying signal of its own and can it be traced?

Occasionally birds can be seen by radar, even insects at times will show up on radar, however the "gain" on the signal is usually turned down so as not to allow too much "ground clutter" to obscure the overall picture of the aircraft in the airspace. So given the usual operational situation, the gain is usually lowered and only strong signals and signals tied to the IFF/transponder are "painted' on the radars viewed by the air controllers.

Our drones are often made of fiberglass and this is radar transparent, if the interior of the wing is of metal this can show up on radar through the wing. Some of our drones are painted with radar absorbing pain thus in these case there should be no reflected signal back to the radar. Drones with weapons and sensors mounted on them are usually more radar reflective and would be noticed.

Detecting a radio signal from a drone is dependant on one knowing the frequency that it is using. Side lobes and resonant frequencies might make it more detectable but in a high quality drone the radio would be digital and minimally powered to reduce such giveaways. Military drones are usually satellite controlled and the radio would be line of sight and thus stray radio detectable at the ground would nearly be impossible. If it were a civilian hobbyist drone, such a model airplane would have limited and detectable radio transmission, but you'd have to actively look for it and it would have a limited radius of reach as these transmitters are limited to only a few watts of power.