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Thread: Crop Circles Q & A

  1. #21

    . All money deriving from CAP will go to the farmers. 2. A CAP need to be for a limited time, eg. two weeks? A CAP any longer, eg. 3 months, will make it highly likely that passes could be transferred by a person leaving the area to a person newly arriving, unless a picture is shown on the pass. This period needs to be carefully chosen, as does the price. The price may need to depend on the number of formations available at the time of purchase, perhaps based on a notional fee of 3 Pounds per formation. 2. A season ticket pass should be available. Price could be based on an assumed 40 formations and 1.5 Pounds per formation or similar. 3.The validity period needs to be clearly marked on the pass so that it is easily read by an access control volunteer. 4. The pass needs to say that it is issued to the purchaser only and is not transferable. Ideally, passes should contain a picture of the pass holder to prevent this. It may not be too hard to provide all ticket issuing places with the means of doing this. The pass should say that it must be presented on request of the volunteers at access points. 5. A temporary access pass is required for issue by volunteers to people who arrive without a CAP, see item 5 under Volunteers.

    6. Places from which it can be obtained: all centers likely to have Crop Circle Visitors. Advertising People need to know that this season is different. A flyer should be made and delivered to all centres likely to have crop circle visitors - B&Bs, Hotels, Pubs, Cafes. Also to all known tour leaders etc. (worldwide). At all places where CAPs can be purchased, there should be a poster explaining the system and why it has been introduced. Process.

    Derek Viner and Monique Klinkenbergh

    Crop Circles and farmers; is there a better way? Summary of Meeting – 12 April 2013 Purpose of the meeting:

    The aim of the meeting is to discuss the potential for a new sustainable approach to crop circles - finding a way to encourage farmers to allow access to their land. For this to take place, then those who visit sites must act responsibly and there would need to be a revenue stream to compensate the farming community. This initiative has been developed by Derek Viner (a local resident), Monique Klinkenbergh (Crop Circle Information Centre), and has been supported by David Dawson (Director of the Wiltshire Museum in Devizes) and David Andrews (CEO of VisitWiltshire). An initial meeting with the farming community was held on 8 March 2013, and was chaired by Claire Perry, MP. Location: Wiltshire Museum, Devizes Attendees Chair  David Dawson, Director of the Wiltshire Museum, Devizes Farming Community:  Mrs Ann Brown, Manor Farm, Aldbourne  Mrs Jilly Carter; Manton Grange, Manton, near Marlborough  Mr Tim Carson, Manor Farm, Alton Barnes  Mr Robert Cooper; East Farm, Winterbourne Monkton  Gill Hussey; Weir Farm, Broad Hinton  Mr James Read; Church Farm, Stanton St. Bernard  Mr James Sheppard, Poulton Farm Estate, near Marlborough  Mrs Andrea Witcombe; NFU (National Farmers Union) county advisor for Wiltshire Crop Circle Community: Researchers/Conference /Tour organizers:  Steve and Karen Alexander  Glenn Broughton  Denni Clarke  Michael Glickman  Paul Jacobs  Lucy Pringle  Busty Taylor  Maria Wheatly  PC Mark Randle, Rural Crime Team, Wiltshire Police  Mrs Monique Klinkenbergh, Crop Circle Information Centre.

    Meeting Summary David Dawson (Chair): Opening and Welcome to all the invitees. Mrs Claire Perry, Member of Parliament for the Devizes Constituency sent a personal message to open the meeting:

    “Thank you so much for attending this meeting today, I am sorry that due to an existing diary engagement that I am unable to be here. I was delighted to attend the initial meeting held on 8 March and felt that the discussion was extremely productive. I know that the large numbers of crop circles in this part of Wiltshire offers many opportunities for the local economy, but that the needs of landowners must to be carefully considered. I would be delighted if some kind of ticketing system could be developed going forward.” David outlined the background of the meeting: there is a huge interest in crop circles. Many tourists who visit the County are interested in crop circles, and do not know where they can go or that there is a Code of Conduct that they should follow. There are several major conferences a year which attract significant numbers of overseas visitors. However, this interest can only be sustained and developed if farmers are not adversely affected by visitors. The aim of the meeting was to discuss ways in which farmers could be encouraged to allow access to crop circles on their land, if those who visited acted responsibly and if they could be compensated them for reduced crop yields. His interest in the topic was to enable crop circles to be promoted and appreciated, encouraging visitors to come to Wiltshire and stay in the area, bringing economic benefits. David emphasised that crop circles were not actively promoted to visitors to Wiltshire because of the difficulties over access. In turn, this hampered the opportunity to promote the Crop Circle Code of Conduct. He also outlined the way in which the Portable Antiquities Scheme had dramatically reduced the conflict and tension between detectorists. The Scheme has reduced illegal and illicit detecting and damage to farmers crops and protected archaeological sites. For Crop Circles, there was an opportunity to develop a crop circle ‘pass’ - similar in principle to an angling licence. David outlined that the aim of the meeting was to discus the idea of a mechanism which would enable access to be given to crop formations, while enabling farmers to be compensated for loss and damage to their crops. Any discussion regarding the origin of crop circles should be avoided. Monique Klinkenbergh: a Crop Circle Coordination & Information Centre for Wiltshire: Monique Klinkenbergh outlined the idea of a central coordination & information centre that would be of benefit for all parties and could bring order the current chaotic situation. Monique recently decided to close her Crop Circle Centre Centre in The
    Netherlands to proceed in Wiltshire. Her proposed Crop Circle Coordination and Information Centre would evolve from the existing Crop Circle Information Centre “The Silent Circle” and would be directed by Derek Viner, Monique Klinkenbergh and Charles Mallet. Monique is aiming for the Centre to be operational from mid June 2013.


  2. #22
    Farmers: brief introduction and key issues:
     Most farmers see crop circles as criminal damage and vandalism and would like this to stop. They believe by cutting circles out, they will discourage the appearance of further circles on their land and therefore uninvited visitors, problems and damage.  A group of 9 farmers across the Vale of Pewsey Vale have agreed to cut all formations immediately they appear.  Two farmers pointed out that crop circles also brought positive experiences, for visitors and themselves.  Some farmers commented that they do not like to encourage people to visit crop circles. Farmers and NFU does not like to see the Wiltshire Tourist organization promoting the crop circles as a visitor attraction.  Farmers were angered and frustrated by some threatening behavior after cutting circles out, or denying access to them.  Famers believe donation boxes do not work, as they are broken into and stolen, sometimes by people who use vehicles to take the boxes away. These thefts were not always reported to the police.  The Police are concerned about dangerous parking and thefts from vehicles.  Farmers explained that crop circle have a significant impact upon their business, with an estimate cost of £500-£1,000 for each circle in lost yields and other costs. Some crops grown for seed have a much higher value.  Visitors sometimes park in locations that are dangerous or block farm access.  Farmers also talked about public liability – they may be liable in the case of an injury to someone while they are on their land, even if they are there without the farmers permission and ignore warning signs and the Country Code  Crop circle enthusiasts often stay in farmhouse B&Bs or holiday cottages. A famer commented that last season visitors were complaining about conflicts within the cropcircle (research) community, which made them reluctant to return to Wiltshire.  Farmers are angered that they feel they are the last to know they have a circle on their land. Information and images are being put up on websites before the farmers themselves know.  Farmers want to be guaranteed they will be compensated “fully” for all the losses they incur when a circle appears on their farm, before they will consider not cutting them out. They feel that they should be able to profit from any circle.  One farmer commented that a guarantee of a payment as soon as the circle appeared would make him and other farmers reconsider cutting the circles out. The average cost for a circle would need to be established.

    Researchers, tour leaders and conference organizers: thoughts on “a better way”

     Farmers concerns and anger has been fully heard by the “CC Community ” and it became clear that a solution is needed.  It was outlined that we are now dealing with a situation where both communities stood to lose out. It should be possible to turn this into a win-win situation.  It was pointed out that no one had control over when and where Crop Circles appeared  It was outlined that one contact/communication/coordination-point between farmers and the CC Community would be very helpful.  Some people within off the CC Community already made serious efforts to reduce the friction. The Crop Circle Code of Conduct was agreed to be very helpful and needs a reprint.  Farmers were invited to attend Crop Circle Conferences and, if they wished, to speak about the issues.  It was suggested that people could pay a modest fee of £2‐3 to access a CC. This cost is very cheap when compared to other visitor attractions. Raising the suggested payment may help collect a more satisfactory amount with which to compensate farmers.  Paul Jacobs outlined his CGI initiative at the meeting, offering a group of volunteers to man fields to welcome visitors and to collect money for the farmers. Paul currently has a small group of 6 volunteers willing to do this in 2013. However six is a small number, and if the number of formations were similar to those in 2012, then more volunteers would be needed.

    Monique Klinkenbergh: A Crop Circle Access Pass;

    a possible idea to permit access to crop formations while compensating famers for loss and damage.  Outlined the idea of a Crop Circle Access Pass - the purpose of which is to properly compensate farmers for the crop loss and inconvenience of large numbers of visitors on their land. It would also help to control over access by informing visitors of the Code of Conduct and identifying agreed access routes).  Many of the issues discussed at the meeting had been taken into account in a basic plan for the Access Pass. As there was no time left to discuss this in detail, it was agreed that the plan be emailed to those who had attended the meeting. Review and agree next steps.  It was agreed that the current situation is unsustainable, particularly in this economic climate and when farm incomes have been badly hit by poor weather.  It was agreed that there is an urgent need to consider change.  David Dawson suggested a small group be formed who would be willing to investigate the Access Pass & Access Control plan in greater detail and report back to those present at this meeting.

    Members of the implementation group:

     CC Community: Steve and Karen Alexander, Glenn Broughton, Denni Clarke, Michael Glickman, Paul Jacobs, Monique Klinkenbergh, Lucy Pringle, Busty Taylor and Derek Viner.  Farming community: James Sheppard (Poulton Farm Estate) and Andrea Witcombe (National Farmers Union).  Wiltshire Police: Mark Randle, Rural Crime Team It was agreed that the implementation group will present their discussions to the next meeting which will take place mid May at the Wiltshire Museum. David Dawson and Monique Klinkenbergh; 29.4.2013

  3. #23

  4. #24
    Why are the two videos of Andrew Pyrka not available any longer?

  5. #25
    You will need facebook to find the answer to that question, scroll down to August 26 and work your way up. The CC world is at war.

    And the other side of the fence is RACCF/Pyrka

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