Originally Posted by Longeyes
Longeyes,
You are likely correct.
Pollution warming the climate, causing and or increasing speed of poles shifting was a passing thought.
Longeyes,
You are likely correct.
Pollution warming the climate, causing and or increasing speed of poles shifting was a passing thought.
The sun is the principal driver of our climate. I agree precession factors in there heavily.
I do not believe human pollution is a principal factor. Ice ages are a documented cycle. They come, they go. Human pollution had nothing to do with the last ice ages be they massive or recent minis as in the little ice age. Volcanism tributes to shorter chilling such as Krakatoas influence.
Generally I hate debates on ice ages and climate as its more of a food fight so I just let everyone believe as they will and say go in peace. nothing is going to stop the planet from doing what its going to do anyway.
To answer the threads title question of why we're still debating it...I think folks like a good debate and politics plays in to this. Climatologists on both sides of the argument get a lot of research money to continue their debate. There are many answers to that question. I'll stick with Dame Nature...she'll have the last word.
Last edited by southerncross; 05-16-2015 at 05:45 PM.
I read an interesting book on the subject of Global Warming about 5 years ago.
The author took the stance that earth's gravity pulls heavier objects, like lumps of uranium, towards the earths core.
If it were not for vulcanism churning up core contents, we would never see heavier elements on the earth's surface.
Anyway, that particular author postulated that increased radioactive materials coming together at the core (heavy radioactive elements making their way every deeper) was responsible for global warming. Like a furnace growing every hotter as more fuel is added to it.
It was a good read, I can dig up the title if anyone is interested.
The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress. -- Joseph Joubert
Attachment 1008
The whole thing about carbon sinks filling which Majicbar mentioned is a big worry. The Antarctic storms which rotate around the southern pole produce massive swells and has been responsible for absorbing a lot of Co2 out if the atmosphere. Scientists now think that it is almost full.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.VVfPMYF4WK0
Today I read the El Niño this year is going to be pretty extreme...
Many experts are warning of a "super El Niño" this time round. "We have this enormous heat in the subsurface that is propagating eastward and it's just about to come to the surface," says Axel Timmermann of the University of Hawaii in Honolulu. "I looked at the current situation and I thought, 'oh my dear'."
Full article here
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.VVfQLYF4WK0
There a few problems with what people 'believe' about this. There aren't any climatatologists on the other side of the debate they virtually all have evidence the climate is warming and agree that this time round we have caused it. In the scientific world there no real debate it's been proven as fact.
The problem with climate change is there is nothing you can point at and go 'there told you so that tornado is down to climate change' Yes, the earth has natural cycles we can do nothing about, but this time it is clearly connected to the levels of co2 in the atmosphere and that is due to us burning fossil fuels.
It's naive to think we can't effect the world in that way, where are the cod your side of the Atlantic? Prehaps even more terrifying than climate change in the last 40 or so years as the human population has doubled the number of wild vertebrates has halved. The sea is getting more acidic and is rising. These are facts.
The other problem with climate change is that people think it 's a matter of opnion. No one can tell you what to believe, but if every expert is saying 'your house is going to burn down with electrics like those', you'd be mad to ignore it. You can deny it all you like but when your house burns down where does that leave you?
We need a whole load of volcanoes to cool the atmosphere down, their effects only last a decade or so. And this thing is solvable we just need a whole load more solar power. Plenty of desert in Texas turn it into a power station. Germany produced half it power from renewables at one point this year. Coal gas will run out eventually anyway. People are mostly worried about having to drive a stupid electric car I agree with that there's nothing like a decent petrol engine but boo hoo we can't always have what we want.
it was June last year Germany produced over half it energy with solar power. It hasn't crippled thier economy yes it the change was heavily subsided but the oil industry is also subsided
http://www.iflscience.com/technology...gy-using-solar
Last edited by Longeyes; 05-17-2015 at 09:31 AM.
I come from several generations of staunch conservationists and my sister was an oceanographer. I'm a firm believer in alternative energy and find the whole idea exciting. If I could drive a solar powered car I'd be there in a second, or electric for that matter.
I agree with the earlier poster regarding the sun and Precession. The planet has hit its precessionary extreme and is beginning to tilt back, so we're on the extreme of that cycle. The sun, despite some powerful x flares is at a sun spot low not unlike the mini ice ages we've had before. I think that is the big driver of that train. Are we contributing ? I think so. Especially with oceanic pollution/acidity. We're certainly killing the food chain in the oceans. The industrial scale of harvesting and waste when they do so, tossing tons of dead fish back into the ocean, is criminal. I believe Mother Earth will have her revenge.
We can debate this till we're exhausted, but in the end I think we'll see the planet cool, for whatever reasons people choose to believe or blame. Ice cores have demonstrated the flip to cold was a rapid one in the past. Like I said, I don't think I'll be sitting under a mile of ice anytime soon, and it may warm more before it plunges, but I'm prepared to see a colder climate before I die, which is likely 20 to 25 years away. So, I'll plan on colder weather in my old age, and eating a great deal less fish !
Vice has an interesting article, click here to read:
Writers, Scientists, and Climate Experts Discuss How to Save the World from Climate Change
Following contributed to article
Alan Weisman, writer: HAVE FEW KIDS
Michael Pollan, food and agriculture expert: ENCOURAGE SMART FARMING
Ken Caldeira, climate scientist: MAKE PEOPLE BETTER
Naomi Oreskes, climate historian: FREE THE ENERGY MARKET
David Keith, climate-policy expert: EMBRACE GEOENGINEERING
Lauren Markham, journalist: REINVENT THE CITY
I skimmed the article, found a number of interesting points and bookmarked it for a later read.
Hi Casper
couldn't agree more with the have less kids. There are just far too many of us here already. The planet is not just for us surely? What about all the amazing creatures we share it with?
Came across this very worring report this am
This the hottest 4 months globally and we could be seeing a big temperature hike this year maybe even 0.5 c
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...-month-record/
It has been said that the first people to live to 1000 have already been born. The idea is that at 80 your genes can be reset to go back to 40, and this can be done indefinitely but the estimation is that by 1000 something will have killed you beyond what medical science will be able to recover your life for you. Now what is needed, is to consider this and the Earth's population: there really will be too many damn people! We need to issue licenses to have children, certain couples will just have to forego children all together. Having one child will be all that the Earth can endure and not everyone can have their lives extended.
A sad day has arrived so soon.
Have to say my dad in his 80's has been having his lunch outside and says there are flowers on his strawberries in Nov! It is unseasonably warm here in the UK, alarmingly so.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-en...763036?SThisFB
Warming set to breach 1C threshold
Global temperatures are set to rise more than one degree above pre-industrial levels according to the UK's Met Office.
Figures from January to September this year are already 1.02C above the average between 1850 and 1900.
If temperatures remain as predicted, 2015 will be the first year to breach this key threshold.
The world would then be half way towards 2C, the gateway to dangerous warming.
The new data is certain to add urgency to political negotiations in Paris later this month aimed at securing a new global climate treaty.
Difficult to measure
For researchers, confusion about the true level of temperatures in the 1750s, when the industrial revolution began and fossil fuels became widely used, means that an accurate assessment of the amount the world has warmed since then is very difficult.
To get over this problem, the Met Office use an average of the temperatures recorded between 1850 and 1900, which they argue makes their analysis more accurate.
'This is the first time we're set to reach the 1C marker and it's clear that it is human influence driving our modern climate into uncharted territory' Prof Stephen Belcher, Met Office
Their latest temperature information comes from a dataset jointly run by the Met Office and the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.
The HadCRUT database showed that in the first nine months of this year, the global mean temperature had just gone above 1C, hitting 1.02 with a error factor of plus or minus 0.11C....
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